Topic: [ANN][NOTE]DNotes - Celebrating DNotes 3rd Birthday - Forum Now Open - page 357. (Read 814544 times)

Yes, it would indeed! So far, looks like EMC2 and HYPER are working toward that goal. I would keep an eye on them and see where this goes.
And there is still the matter of classification. Money or commodity? Until gov't agencies formulate a clear picture of the landscape, we are all lost in the same fog...

That may be the only way.  Group effort co-operation to form a CC Union - wouldn't that be a first in crypto!

I have a very busy schedule today but feel that even a brief comment is in order. RJF has my high regards as a deeply informed investor in our industry.

“I really think the industry will survive and prosper, it's truly amazing tech and that means a lot for future value and acceptance.”

I am in total agreement with you. This is no longer a speculative technology or one that is still in a “proof of concept” stage. It is a proven technology. It will continue to evolve and get better. It is indeed our responsibility to help identify weaknesses in the system and be a positive contributor so that the industry will not only just survive but prosper.

Yea, I thought that comment was a bit off but, that was part of my suggestion for a group effort, spread the work...

Just wanted to add, DNotes is trading for fiat on C-Cex but it is not that popular.

That is very interesting, especially your idea of the consortium or CC Union.  The author of the original post made one small error / oversite in this statement - "The site owner may have looked into compliance and decided against it, but if he did he would have found very little paperwork to do and a reasonable amount of expected accountability"  

Reporting responsibilities - http://www.fincen.gov/financial_institutions/msb/msbrequirements.html

MSB Independent Reviews
MSB Registration
MSB Registration Renewal Calculator
MSB Agent List
MSB Suspicious Activity Reporting
Establish a written Anti-Money Laundering program (31 CFR § 1022.210)
Currency Transaction Report (31 CFR § 1010.311)
Records to be made and retained with respect to the transmittal of funds (§ 1010.410(e)
Records to be maintained for purchases of bank checks or drafts, cashier’s checks, money order or traveler’s checks for $3,000 or more in currency. (31 CFR § 1010.415)
Additional records to be maintained by prepaid access providers and sellers to collect and retain certain transactional records relating to prepaid access. (31 CFR § 1022.420)
Additional records to be maintained by prepaid access providers and sellers to collect and retain customer information relating to prepaid access (31 CFR § 1022.210(d)(1)(iv))
Foreign located MSBs to designate a person who resides in the U.S. to function as an agent to accept service of legal process, including with respect to BSA compliance (31 CFR 1022.380(a)(2))

From - http://www.fincen.gov/financial_institutions/msb/index.html
Nature of records and retention period (31 CFR § 1010.430)


One last note - I'm not sure if it's FinCEN or FINTRAC, but I'm pretty sure somewhere in all that info I read that one of them required record keeping of customers personal information.

Good point, DNotes will prevail but, it still seems a bit one sided to lock into Bitcoins future fortunes. We could have multiple markets as well.

That is a double edged sword. I believe bitcoin will be going up over time. Jumping off the bitcoin exchange rates could provide more stability for DNotes in terms of fiat conversion, but maybe now is the wrong time. I support both sides of that argument as I feel DNotes will prevail either way.

People are starting to take note that the way altcoins are valued is wrong. Check out the following link. We may want to climb on this bandwagon:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.10148272

Also some interesting reading on the EMC2 thread about this: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=494708.5840

What really bothers me about being tied to Bitcoin's index is that we miss many opportunities to shine and bring in new users/investment. If Bitcoin goes down, we go down when in reality if Bitcoin goes down, we, and other alts with real value, should go up. Therefore, being anchored to Bitcoin creates constant losses for all alt coins when independent or USD market valuation would would let coins be valued on their merits and not the whim of the Bitcoin market.

Just wanted to add, the attitude and level of intelligent thought in this thread is refreshing! While most others I frequent (not all but most) are currently doing the "chicken little" thing, sanity prevails here. This only makes DNotes even more attractive as a long term investment vehicle. I really think the industry will survive and prosper, it's truly amazing tech and that means a lot for future value and acceptance.

So, if you're reading this and your considering the last several weeks of chaos, consider this: crypto's existence can be compared to a microsecond in the history of money. What we are investing in didn't even exist until 2009. For anyone to predict it's long term future is an exercise in futility. It's entirely up to us to make that future a good one. All users, coders, investors, everyone who has the vision to see this thing through the coming years of adoption, regulation, proliferation and everything else that makes up a "sea change" in the way we see money and investment, all of us are responsible for that future.

And, keep in mind, when some so called expert pushes the gloom and doom button for the media, it doesn't mean much given the history of new technology in our society. It's more likely the only way that person can get noticed and that's what it's all about for some people, getting noticed, doesn't matter for what, right or wrong, they need their moment in the spotlight. Just chuckle and move on... Maybe even send them a few DNotes.

Outstanding discussion from every participant. DNotes has reached a turn point. It is easy to track our path from the beginning of our journey. We are proud of what we have accomplished, yet what matters most is where we are going from here. Each and every comment is important to all of us as we review, renew, and revitalized all that we have done and what we need to do going forward from here.

Please continue the discussion. Thanks.

One the major differences between our industry and others is establishment. Crypto is new, uncontrolled and "in your face" The usual controls either don't exist or, in a few cases, do not yet work. When a stock is tanking, trading is stopped. Bank runs are insured and banks can simply lock the doors until the mayhem and carnage is over, we cannot.

There is currently nothing that will prevent wild and crazy swings in crypto value. And here lies the most dangerous result, knee jerk reaction regulation. Yes, there needs to be controls and laws and regulations but, they need to develop slowly, sanely without fear and panic. So far, so good I would say on this front. Since the total amount of money in the industry is "pocket change" compared to the stock market, we have enjoyed a growth period relatively free of regulation. Look to that to change.

Now, I'm not saying this is bad, to the contrary, it's good as long as we stay involved in the process and don't allow the powers that be go totally political on us. The irony of the information age is that people these days are so far disconnected from their lawmakers they just tend to accept whatever decisions and laws go on the books, and than complain later.

We cannot afford to do this anymore, we must ALL get and stay involved lest we get flattened into the pavement by the legislative steam roller.

It is truly amazing that we are so connected to each other but we still can't sit down and have a heart to heart talk with our representatives in congress. Electronic media is an illusion. You sign all the online petitions, click all the voting boxes, Tweet till your battery goes dead and hundreds of other things but you still can't sit down with your Senator and have a chat, so sad.

Anyway, my prediction? I believe it will all work itself out over the next few years but, we must be vigilant. If you hear of a bad law being proposed, fight it. If you hear of a helpful law being proposed, support it. The worst thing you can do is be apathetic and ignore it.

We are lucky to have some really great minds involved in the industry but, honestly, with a few shining exceptions, most are not so brilliant in the social graces and political scene. Those of you who are savvy need to fill in the gaps. Lets start smoothing this roller coaster out so we call all benefit from the coming, dare I say (?) revolution.

PS: I have nothing against a free market so long as it is really free! Also, I agree with TeeGee about the commodity vs. currency issue, this is absolutely true but, it has happened before ie. the gold rush and will work itself out. Refer to the above section about "smart" lawmakers and accessing them...  

I have some of my own thoughts to add about the bitcoin crash. For those who have time to read what I found to be a fascinating article on the Willy Bot and Markus Bot at Mt. Gox, you may do so here:

https://willyreport.wordpress.com/2014/05/25/the-willy-report-proof-of-massive-fraudulent-trading-activity-at-mt-gox-and-how-it-has-affected-the-price-of-bitcoin/

I have elucidated a rather pertinent extract that I agree with (I do not believe the entire article is factually proven, but provides a good theory to explain the 2013 rally):

"Mt. Gox has effectively been abusing Bitcoin to operate a Ponzi scheme for at least a year. The November “bubble” well into the $1000’s – and possibly April’s as well – was driven by hundreds of millions of dollars of fake liquidity pumped into the market out of thin air (note that this is equivalent to “with depositors’ money”). It is only natural that the Bitcoin price would deflate for around 5 months since its December peak, since there was never enough fiat coming in to support these kind of prices in the first place."

We do not know what Bitcoin's real highest value ever was. What we can reasonably believe, is that the price was manipulated heavily by bot activity using liquidity that did not exist. This led to Mt Gox's downfall. I can not be absolutely certain who was behind such trading activity, but there are plenty of incentives that exist to continually pump the coin and then allow it to crash, whether those people be speculative traders, fraudsters, or players who have an interest in destroying Bitcoin by creating volatility. Working this out is not as important to the knowledge that when Bitcoin hit $1200, it was not its true value. We still do not know what the true high would have been because nobody was selling (because why would you put a sell ask up on the wall if you knew it was going to get eaten into anyway?) and this new BTC price low is a direct cause of:

1. A correction in the value of Bitcoin from an artificial pump,
2. Compounding fear of further loss from this fall. Many traders are trading on the technical graphs that include the artificial pump when btc should never have gotten so high anyway! This means traders are making trading decisions based on short and medium term graphs that have negative outlooks for a trader that works with technical analysis.

The views in the previous paragraph closely tie into DYNA's posts these last couple days about wishing to be able to 'defend' any DNotes appreciation at the exchanges, rather than pump and fall. The other key correlation is the herd mentality seen with people who are worried about the long term price correction from the artificial high that I made in my second point. Many traders still use long term (180 day +) charts, and traders who look at the same charts will tend to make similar trading decisions. Traders may be making decisions that have nothing to do with the true market demand for Bitcoin.

In terms of the current Bitcoin price (~200 USD at time of writing), one can argue that despite not knowing the true Bitcoin high, that high was likely FAR more than it was now. I think this low reflects a mixture of buyer confidence in Bitcoin as a store of value and speculative traders having their day.
I see ~200 dollar Bitcoins as the opportunity to buy a brand new Ferrari on sale for the price of a Volvo The prices at the exchanges will correct themselves soon when all the losing speculators jump out of the market.

My personal view is that one of the biggest problems with Bitcoin and crypto in general, is that too many people enter planning to swap back one day into their national currency having made millions. They are treating crypto like a speculative commodity, not a currency with reliable appreciation. These are the people who sell their Bitcoins at the first sign of trouble. These are the people who will miss out and live to regret it.

Currently mining is unprofitable for many (even CEX.io have closed cloud mining), which just leads to more dumping.


I personally see Bitcoin as having gone up from $100 to $200 over the last 2 years. The DNotes team have been wary from the outset that speculation and price volatility has ruined some of their competitors and hindered adoption. This is why they set out from the beginning to be the first stable crypto with long term appreciation. After almost one year the team is well on track to deliver the most attractive 1 year trend-line that has no downturns! Go find me another asset or currency that can net you ~2000% in a year? (had bitcoin stayed at 700-800 like it was at launch, this appreciation would be some 7000%, all without subsequent drops).

This following year will be very exciting for DNotes, Bitcoin and crypto in general. It will be the last year that a significant number of DNotes can be accumulated at a fairly cheap price. Bitcoin is much harder to speculate on, the technology and the coin is fine, just the price is not. We will have to wait to see how the market reacts to the VC raised this last year, and how the heavily skewed Bitcoin distribution to a select few affects market prices if they decide to sell.

I'll leave my final paragraph to my personal view of the true beauty of crypto-currency. The coolest thing is that nobody owns it - not the government, not the bank, but the holders. This can not be said for any other money eco-system. We are the guinea pigs of a decentralised, free-market experiment to highlight that we do not need masters to rule our lives and tell us what IS and what IS NOT money (or what money is legal and what is not). It is the first technology to put the monetary system back into the power of the people who use it, rather than the existing system where people are subject to the whim of the powers who control money, printing more when they want for themselves. The internet was created in 1994, but all the cool stuff like Google, Facebook and YouTube came much later. The advent of blockchain technology is so new, that we don't even know what the blockchain version of Google or Youtube is going to be. Whatever it is, they will pay their employees with DNotes. We own the crypto currencies we use OURSELVES, and we should respect them accordingly. This is going to be a long ride, this has also been a long post (I actually wrote more, but was worried it had become a bit critical of the US government in particular and decided not to post it out of respect for US citizens who may support various government actions. I think I'll write a whole blog on what I omitted...for those who are interested at a later date).

I had my first day back at work today for the year... told my boss I'd give her and her husband (IT guy) some DNotes... she seemed quite receptive while I explained away the advantages of crypto.

Bed time [2:22am]. Look forward to hearing any thoughts in the morning (I'll compress it down maybe for a re-post later).

You are so right about the "Herd" mentality!  We see it time and time again.  See a large group of people trying to get into a building and you most generally will follow them even if they do not know where they are going but you will follow assuming they do only to get there and it was the door you all just passed.  We tend to rely on others in the "Herd" to show us the way.  So very glad that DNotes is not one in the "Herd" but rather the one that is paving the way in a real and honest way.  They know where the door is and know how to get there and in the building... just sayin'!

Wow. What an explanation! You certainly have a way with being able to explain things in simple concepts. Even after being your student for over ten years, I am still learning......

Sincerly,
Grasshopper

Bitcoin has lost over 80% of its value from its peak at around $1,200 it reached just a little over a year ago. The most recent drop of over 30% from $300 to $200 is quite definitely sucking a lot of energy out of our industry resulting in high anxiety and much worry. For whatever it's worth let me give you my take, hopefully it brings a little comfort.

I always look at things from a somewhat different prospective or, more accurately, from many different prospective, often using a system approach, allowing me to look closely at all the different components that are inter-connected to form the main system. In addition, I have found it helpful to utilize multi-discipline model; economic, financial, and behavioral model. I am not going to bore you with details. However, I will share two conclusions with you that may shade a little light, hopefully along with some comfort.

Herd mentality is a very powerful force in human behavior both negatively and positively. Herd mentality is always emotionally charged, spontaneous and never objective. It has a very high tendency to end in either extremely of the spectrum, with a period of adjustment once the dust settled. As much as Bitcoin was over-valued at $1,200, I am certain that it is under-valued at $200 due to herd mentality at play.

My second observation is a little more complex but explain why our industry has been spinning its wheels and difficult to establish an objective valuation. I often refer to the phenomena as “build and destroy”. In a highly productive environment, once a baseline is established, it is quite easy to account for incremental value added to the baseline. Using DNotes as an example, a productive and healthy growth path will constantly add value over a given period of time. This gives the planners the confidence to project a reliable long term value appreciation path. It is more in tune with a publicly traded company with solid fundamentals and healthy growth potential. The entity becomes more and more valuable over time.

Our industry in general has been both productive and destructive. As a group we “build and destroy”. We know for a fact that a lot of value has been added in just 2014 alone. Close to $400 million was invested by VCs (venture capital). Together with time and money from the rest of us along with all the new technologies and infrastructures added last year alone, our industry as a whole should be worth a lot more today than it was a year ago. It probably should be, and hence undervalued. However, here is the problem. Our industry has also been rather destructive and that negative value is nearly impossible to account for. One can argue that this holds true with every industry at its formative stage. That is true, but never to this extreme.

Personally, I believe that there are many great people in our industry, including a lot of very smart individuals.  We all have our strengths and weaknesses. It may be time for more of us to come together and be much more productive this year than 2014. This is our invitation to others who share our values and vision that as much as this technology revolution, we are already a part of, may be disruptive, but it does not have to be destructive. That will be the best for our generation and many more to come. It is with such inspiration and vision that DNotes core mission is founded.

That is a very good point.

I could go either way on the retirement or student crisp. From my perspective I want the retirement crisp first. I do believe that if that is in place first alongside the crisps for kids that it would indeed entice students to put forth more effort into this than if they just saw only crisp for kids. If both of these will truly only be a month apart then it really doesn't matter, but crisp retirement first then crisp student is my opinion. 

It's not reporting the correct DNotes count at the moment, should be fixed soon, they are rebuilding the blockchain.

That is a valid point. Let us wait for more comments.