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Topic: Announcing ProzCoin : Proof of Action (PoA) - page 52. (Read 78486 times)

legendary
Activity: 1092
Merit: 1001
Chris, I think we have some kind of "mind connection" lol

I will take a look at your articles soon.

Btw, I like to listen to one of your musics to know how you think Wink (I read about it at the end of the article). Which one do you recommend?

 Grin

https://soundcloud.com/tabali-tigi/alive


That is a good introduction I believe Smiley

they dont have any money , they need investers  there is no women on the team
life is entirely dependant on money ,meaning we do nuthin if no investers money  ,we dont have any money were just kids wanna be facebook coin crap im gonna get 100 million block from u lol
sr. member
Activity: 434
Merit: 250
Ah okay!  Yes, we plan on having 100% transparency of operations/payouts so that there will be no question of whether the payouts are being manipulated or not.  

But will there be a proof?  Meaning, will we be able to do something like pull some signed archive of the posts themselves and allocations associated to them and re-run the math to verify the ledger?  Or do we have to trust that server or servers' claim of history even if the referenced posts disappear, etc?  Is there something that (in a way that will remain perpetually verifiable) connects the tx records on the chain back to some record of the actual contributions (forum post or whatnot) that were made?

Quote
And as far the way we plan on implementing mining, the idea is that we will add PoW coins to the CoinProz mining pool, and monitor the activity so that completed mining hours are what get counted towards the score, and not the "hashing power" of the miner.

So if you PoW mine "Dogecoin" through the Coin Proz pool, you will get your regular PoW payout in Doge, but in addition you will get a PoA payout in ProzCoin for "participation" in PoW mining.  This way we can bring people into the mining pools, not force them to mine a specific coin, and then reward their activity ProzCoin, which could really be seen as a "bonus".

Same question!  Will this pool, itself, operate in a p2pool fashion "on chain" or are you asking us to trust your particular centralized pool to account fairly/correctly and, most importantly, without compromise?  If you can do this without being just another "coin married to a multi-pool" setup you would be on to something huge, here.  Grin

Quote
Our model is about trying to get the alternative currency communities to work in the same direction.  PoA allows individual communities to thrive, then CoinProz also gives an unbiased home for information distribution, forum particpation, mining, and an all inclusive reward system for involvement.

This will only work well if that direction is the direction that those communities go in.  It will work particularly well if that relationship is systematically baked in, step by step.  Wink
You need to make sure you are being involved in the right things.  A plan of two centralized servers for your coin distribution accounting is not the right stuff, so I'm really hoping you will tell me that is not totally the plan!


Quote
As far as "centralized" trust goes, our aim is that by being inclusive of all the crypto communities, having transparent systems, and eventually having community appointed moderators, we will have a great balance of an autonomous hub that simultaneously promotes the individual communities as legitimate in their own right.  In essence, we want Coin Proz to be a large hub for all things Crypto, but we want the market to influence its evolution, and make community participation the main driving force.

The concern of "too much centralization" is a very valid one, and one that we have tried to be cognizant of during our entire planning process.  Your input is very much appreciated!

I COMPLETELY see where you are coming from with this, and in fact that is kind of the reasoning behind PoA.  Beyond Cryptocurrency, the internet is full of scam artists, fakers, and bots.  We are trying to create a system that encourages REAL people to participate and contribute quality content/action/participation for a reward of ProzCoin.  In a sense we are "gamifying" participation so that activity which can easily be monitored such as post count/upvotes, etc... can be tracked, monitored, and quantified for a "score".  All of the points of calculation will be on public ledgers, and as I said before there are internal limits so that "attempted exploitation" will continually reduce your score the more you try to exploit it, ultimately making people who exploit the system get no real "benefit" from exploitation, and in fact they reduce their payouts.

Keep in mind that I have no problem with the notion of entrusting some group of people involved to judge participation fairly, presuming they can be held to account to some subjectively acceptable degree.  My concern is about purely systematic implementation detail.  I worry that such a "balance" can not exist unless very explicitly enforced within those details.  I worry even more that assuming perpetual sanity of any given centralized server(s) on which that balance depends might inherently make such a system flawed to the point of some inevitable failure.



Also, an aside.  It is one that will likely be fully expected from any reader who knows my posts:

Quote
the internet is full of scam artists, fakers, and bots.  We are trying to create a system that encourages REAL people to participate and contribute quality content/action/participation for a reward of ProzCoin.  In a sense we are "gamifying" participation

As a consequence, you are also directly creating incentive for those scam artists, fakers, and particularly bots to more efficiently (and more cleverly/subtly, under your model) "participate" in their way(s).  While I have hopes that initiatives along these lines will inevitably lead to great strides being made in areas of AI, and that in short order we will be sharing our discourse on these forums with the machines actually operating the forums, some care must be taken.  When you combine these three behaviors in a single agent within your system (A scam artist faker using bots) and at the same time give the world incentive to make more capable chatter bots on forums, you arguably might be inadvertently doing an awesomely great but also simultaneously downright "dangerous" sort of thing.  Persona management, social false flagging, cognitive infiltration, group-think takeover.  If you think these practices aren't rapidly advancing you must not be watching this forum, or your "competition" coins, at all, hehe.  (EDIT: I'll not even mention the basilisk.)

I wish you nothing but luck, and look forward to seeing the release of your systems.  I truly hope that they don't implode under the load of their own success.

sr. member
Activity: 364
Merit: 250
Chris, I think we have some kind of "mind connection" lol

I will take a look at your articles soon.

Btw, I like to listen to one of your musics to know how you think Wink (I read about it at the end of the article). Which one do you recommend?

 Grin

https://soundcloud.com/tabali-tigi/alive


That is a good introduction I believe Smiley
full member
Activity: 182
Merit: 100
KryptKoin is one of the best!!!


I'm optimistic about this project. If you post some detailed articles on a few altcoin news sites, you will get enough attention, consequently enough funds, to complete them. Maybe writing a multi-part article seems good to have constant attention on the news.

Funny you should mention writing a multi-part article Smiley

I have actually been writing for The Coin Front and have done what will be an 8 part article showing the political/economic evolution from the Gold Rush to the Cryptorush.

http://thecoinfront.com/a-new-wave-of-pioneers-mining-the-unknown/

That is the first part (published April 16th, 2014), and part seven will be coming out today or tomorrow actually.  So yeah, I DEFINITELY agree with your idea on how to approach releasing news!

I realized part seven of my series is relevant to this issue, as one of the issues it covers is crowd-funding projects and how for example the people that funded Oculus Rift were basically screwed when the company was sold to Facebook and they got nothing in return.  

One of the ways we are looking to avoid that kind of "burn" of the initial funders is to give Proz Coin holders the option to buy assets in Coin Proz Oy using Proz Coin.  This option will be implemented later, but it is one of the ways to give options for people who want to invest in the idea early and not necessarily be stuck with it, but also get the option to become part owner down the line.  



Chris

edit:

I have written more articles than JUST within the series.  Here are a couple shorter articles:

http://thecoinfront.com/can-cryptocurrency-cure-disease/
http://thecoinfront.com/jason-king-feeds-over-100000-meals-to-homeless-in-pensacola-through-seans-outpost/

Chris, I think we have some kind of "mind connection" lol

I will take a look at your articles soon.

Btw, I like to listen to one of your musics to know how you think Wink (I read about it at the end of the article). Which one do you recommend?
full member
Activity: 182
Merit: 100
KryptKoin is one of the best!!!
What kind of hardware does The Research and Development team want to design? Can you name at least one hardware category?

A hardware wallet is an obvious way to go.
A Point of Sale machine was another I thought of taking a crack at.
Also while I'm thinking about it, how about a way to mine locations? Say Disney wanted to reward users for visiting all their attractions, a GPS tied to a coin could be a neat piece of hardware, introducing location based real world farming.

I really plan on keeping these projects and experiments loose so that we can respond to the community. Things are moving so fast we have to be able to adapt.

Hi Shannon,

I really liked your "location based real world farming" idea. Have made me think about new ideas related to this kind of hardware. Looking forward for such new ideas.
newbie
Activity: 58
Merit: 0
What kind of hardware does The Research and Development team want to design? Can you name at least one hardware category?

A hardware wallet is an obvious way to go.
A Point of Sale machine was another I thought of taking a crack at.
Also while I'm thinking about it, how about a way to mine locations? Say Disney wanted to reward users for visiting all their attractions, a GPS tied to a coin could be a neat piece of hardware, introducing location based real world farming.

I really plan on keeping these projects and experiments loose so that we can respond to the community. Things are moving so fast we have to be able to adapt.
sr. member
Activity: 364
Merit: 250


I'm optimistic about this project. If you post some detailed articles on a few altcoin news sites, you will get enough attention, consequently enough funds, to complete them. Maybe writing a multi-part article seems good to have constant attention on the news.

Funny you should mention writing a multi-part article Smiley

I have actually been writing for The Coin Front and have done what will be an 8 part article showing the political/economic evolution from the Gold Rush to the Cryptorush.

http://thecoinfront.com/a-new-wave-of-pioneers-mining-the-unknown/

That is the first part (published April 16th, 2014), and part seven will be coming out today or tomorrow actually.  So yeah, I DEFINITELY agree with your idea on how to approach releasing news!

I realized part seven of my series is relevant to this issue, as one of the issues it covers is crowd-funding projects and how for example the people that funded Oculus Rift were basically screwed when the company was sold to Facebook and they got nothing in return.  

One of the ways we are looking to avoid that kind of "burn" of the initial funders is to give Proz Coin holders the option to buy assets in Coin Proz Oy using Proz Coin.  This option will be implemented later, but it is one of the ways to give options for people who want to invest in the idea early and not necessarily be stuck with it, but also get the option to become part owner down the line.  



Chris

edit:

I have written more articles than JUST within the series.  Here are a couple shorter articles:

http://thecoinfront.com/can-cryptocurrency-cure-disease/
http://thecoinfront.com/jason-king-feeds-over-100000-meals-to-homeless-in-pensacola-through-seans-outpost/
full member
Activity: 182
Merit: 100
KryptKoin is one of the best!!!
For the record, I have a Master's Degree in Telecommunications, with a focus on "Immersive Mediated Environments".  

One of the biggest goals of the Coin Proz organization is to establish a positive haven for cryptocurrency that does not discriminate against any coin, but also uses a reward based system to motivate users, rather than relying on punishment or complete self-motivation by the coin communities.

There are so many things we have lined up to transcend the dry and boring nature of economics and more specifically cryptocurrency.  

If cryptos are to every gain mass adoption, the current crypto enthusiasts need to move in the same direction, and obviously with the nature of decentralization we cannot expect something like "Bitcoin Foundation" to be a unilateral voice for cryptos.  

Coin Proz wants to use the idea of Forum 2.0, Bitcoin 2.0, etc... so we can have a "hub" that is not "biased" towards or against any community.

As the masses at large move into cryptocurrency, there will be a value in having many different communities accessible through one portal.

Coin Proz will be one of those initial portals, and Proz Coin will be the reward currency associated with Coin Proz.



What kind of hardware does The Research and Development team want to design? Can you name at least one hardware category?

Shannon has already been working on a hardware wallet, and some of the things we were going to try and work with is multi-currency enabled hardware wallets, built in wi-fi/bluetooth, vesting hardware wallets, as well as a few other potential projects.


The potential for hardware development is very much dependent upon funding, but Shannon plans to post a blog with updates/photos of any hardware developments, so that will be an EXTREMELY transparent process.



Chris

I'm optimistic about this project. If you post some detailed articles on a few altcoin news sites, you will get enough attention, consequently enough funds, to complete them. Maybe writing a multi-part article seems good to have constant attention on the news.
sr. member
Activity: 364
Merit: 250
For the record, I have a Master's Degree in Telecommunications, with a focus on "Immersive Mediated Environments".  

One of the biggest goals of the Coin Proz organization is to establish a positive haven for cryptocurrency that does not discriminate against any coin, but also uses a reward based system to motivate users, rather than relying on punishment or complete self-motivation by the coin communities.

There are so many things we have lined up to transcend the dry and boring nature of economics and more specifically cryptocurrency.  

If cryptos are to every gain mass adoption, the current crypto enthusiasts need to move in the same direction, and obviously with the nature of decentralization we cannot expect something like "Bitcoin Foundation" to be a unilateral voice for cryptos.  

Coin Proz wants to use the idea of Forum 2.0, Bitcoin 2.0, etc... so we can have a "hub" that is not "biased" towards or against any community.

As the masses at large move into cryptocurrency, there will be a value in having many different communities accessible through one portal.

Coin Proz will be one of those initial portals, and Proz Coin will be the reward currency associated with Coin Proz.



What kind of hardware does The Research and Development team want to design? Can you name at least one hardware category?

Shannon has already been working on a hardware wallet, and some of the things we were going to try and work with is multi-currency enabled hardware wallets, built in wi-fi/bluetooth, vesting hardware wallets, as well as a few other potential projects.


The potential for hardware development is very much dependent upon funding, but Shannon plans to post a blog with updates/photos of any hardware developments, so that will be an EXTREMELY transparent process.



Chris
full member
Activity: 182
Merit: 100
KryptKoin is one of the best!!!

The Research and Development team led by Shannon Code intends to use capital generated from the sale of Proz Coins to create innovative software and hardware.  The creations developed with/for the Coin Proz Network will be tested and hardened throughout the digital infrastructure. These innovations will come in a variety of flavors, from open sourced to commercial.


What kind of hardware does The Research and Development team want to design? Can you name at least one hardware category?
sr. member
Activity: 364
Merit: 250

I don't mean there is concern over some users "cheating"by click-farming upvotes and such.  I mean that if the distribution relies on some central server doing data collection, how can we trust this server itself?  Will the server offer some form of authenticated operation, so that we can see that noone (server administrators, datacenter noc night staff, hackers got r00t, etc etc) is actually able to manipulate the allocation itself?

Quote
So then if you look at how we are going to create the variables for "merged mining", you see that we are going to use our CoinProz Mining Pool to monitor "mining activity" on "any" coin, and then that activity gets paid out in "ProzCoin" based on the PoA score, and not "hashing power".

Similarly, here, there seems to be a large caveat of requiring trust in the mining pool infrastructure.  Further, I'd have to assume that when you say "any" coin you of course cannot really mean any...

Ah okay!  Yes, we plan on having 100% transparency of operations/payouts so that there will be no question of whether the payouts are being manipulated or not.  

And as far the way we plan on implementing mining, the idea is that we will add PoW coins to the CoinProz mining pool, and monitor the activity so that completed mining hours are what get counted towards the score, and not the "hashing power" of the miner.

So if you PoW mine "Dogecoin" through the Coin Proz pool, you will get your regular PoW payout in Doge, but in addition you will get a PoA payout in ProzCoin for "participation" in PoW mining.  This way we can bring people into the mining pools, not force them to mine a specific coin, and then reward their activity ProzCoin, which could really be seen as a "bonus".

Our model is about trying to get the alternative currency communities to work in the same direction.  PoA allows individual communities to thrive, then CoinProz also gives an unbiased home for information distribution, forum particpation, mining, and an all inclusive reward system for involvement.

"The world certainly does need more "proof of X" coins but those coins need to not require centralized trust to verify the X, but instead need to actually just prove it."

As far as "centralized" trust goes, our aim is that by being inclusive of all the crypto communities, having transparent systems, and eventually having community appointed moderators, we will have a great balance of an autonomous hub that simultaneously promotes the individual communities as legitimate in their own right.  In essence, we want Coin Proz to be a large hub for all things Crypto, but we want the market to influence its evolution, and make community participation the main driving force.


The concern of "too much centralization" is a very valid one, and one that we have tried to be cognizant of during our entire planning process.  Your input is very much appreciated!

I raise these questions because lately it seems that we have an influx of "proof-of-X" coins where X is something that is never really provable in the formal sense without some assumption of trust.  Bitcoin is Bitcoin because it proves seigniorage without requiring an assumption of trust.  A distribution which is only verifiable under an assumption of trust is not much of proof of anything.


I COMPLETELY see where you are coming from with this, and in fact that is kind of the reasoning behind PoA.  Beyond Cryptocurrency, the internet is full of scam artists, fakers, and bots.  We are trying to create a system that encourages REAL people to participate and contribute quality content/action/participation for a reward of ProzCoin.  In a sense we are "gamifying" participation so that activity which can easily be monitored such as post count/upvotes, etc... can be tracked, monitored, and quantified for a "score".  All of the points of calculation will be on public ledgers, and as I said before there are internal limits so that "attempted exploitation" will continually reduce your score the more you try to exploit it, ultimately making people who exploit the system get no real "benefit" from exploitation, and in fact they reduce their payouts.

Chris
sr. member
Activity: 434
Merit: 250
Anyways, it won't be a "black box" forum, even though a transparent ledger will exist, as the forum is simply part of the overall Coin Proz infrastructure.  The coin will still be able to function without the site, as they are separate, and the intent is to build the long term site infrastructure around "ProzCoin" as the main medium for exchange/payment within that network.  In addition, the idea of "faking a score" is something that was taken into account from the beginning, so "gaming the system" will constantly be prevented, as someone will constantly attempt to exploit it.  It is a reward based system, and there is no "punishment", rather attempts to game the system simply reduce payout logarithmically the MORE a person attempts to game the system.

I don't mean there is concern over some users "cheating" by click-farming upvotes and such.  I mean that if the distribution relies on some central server doing data collection, how can we trust this server itself?  Will the server offer some form of authenticated operation, so that we can see that noone (server administrators, datacenter noc night staff, hackers got r00t, etc etc) is actually able to manipulate the allocation itself?

Quote
So then if you look at how we are going to create the variables for "merged mining", you see that we are going to use our CoinProz Mining Pool to monitor "mining activity" on "any" coin, and then that activity gets paid out in "ProzCoin" based on the PoA score, and not "hashing power".

Similarly, here, there seems to be a large caveat of requiring trust in the mining pool infrastructure.  Further, I'd have to assume that when you say "any" coin you of course cannot really mean any...

I raise these questions because lately it seems that we have an influx of "proof-of-X" coins where X is something that is never really provable in the formal sense without some assumption of trust.  Bitcoin is Bitcoin because it proves seigniorage without requiring an assumption of trust.  A distribution which is only verifiable under an assumption of trust is not much of proof of anything.

Unless your "tracking" server offers some form of authenticated operation it seems inescapable that you are requiring one to make such an assumption.

The world certainly does need more "proof of X" coins but those coins need to not require centralized trust to verify the X, but instead need to actually just prove it.

sr. member
Activity: 364
Merit: 250
Very intresting! U must not have a hope, u don't need it)

 Grin
newbie
Activity: 7
Merit: 0
Very intresting! U must not have a hope, u don't need it)
sr. member
Activity: 364
Merit: 250
HI,dev how can we guys get this coins?

Cryptoshoppers will be selling the first million coins at 250 satoshi, then 9 million will be listed on Lazycoins exchange.

Cryptoshoppers accepts over 10 different altcoins for payment in addition to Bitcoin, so the first million Proz are accessible to people holding multiple currencies.

On Monday, the first ProzCoin will be offered.



http://cryptoshoppers.com/




Chris
sr. member
Activity: 364
Merit: 250
An interesting way to launch, watching..

Distribution Model:  All 100 million coins will be mined in 1 block?
10% Will be reallocated for PoA/PoW mining rewards?
Don't see how you will have a PoW if all the coins are in only one block, more info on this please.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the mining/staking keep the blockchain going, PoW/PoS/PoA?

P.S. Looks like a great plan for launch, but need more detail on keeping the block going. Is the PoA going to keep it going, what will the transaction time be?

No, we are using Mastercoin Protocol, so traditional PoW mining is something that isn't "necessary" for this protocol.

We are developing a combined PoA/PoW protocol, so that if you are PoW mining "dogecoin", "bitcoin", or "litecoin" as an example, our mining pool will monitor your mining and not only will you get your PoW payout from whatever coin you are mining, but you will get a PoA payout in ProzCoin.

In a sense, it is "double mining", since Mastercoin Protocol does not need to be "mined" over time using PoW.

Again, since this is NOT traditional PoW mining, the block rewards for the combined PoA/PoW mining will be calculated every 24 hours.

Here is some info about the Mastercoin Protocol:

Master Protocol Design

The “Master Protocol” layer between the existing Bitcoin Protocol and users’ currencies is intended to be a base upon which anyone can build their own currency. The software implementing the Master Protocol will contain simple tools which will allow anyone to design and release their own currency with their own rules without doing any software development.

Chris
member
Activity: 66
Merit: 10
reserved.what a poor ANN,but i will watch this!
sr. member
Activity: 532
Merit: 250
HI,dev how can we guys get this coins?
legendary
Activity: 1092
Merit: 1001
hi my name is zak
how do i mine this
i hope if im mining this im not prozzak
cause i might need it soon
mining it yeah thats the question
newbie
Activity: 4
Merit: 0
I know the Prozcoin team personally. Very genuine group of guys. Best of luck!
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