You will never get any ROI on your investments. 
Topic: [ANNOUNCING] XAP coin - Open-Source the Internet - API Marketplace - page 4. (Read 22614 times)
June 18, 2014, 09:27:43 PM
I tried to understand this shit but huge crowd-sale this days are You will never get any ROI on your investments.
You will never get any ROI on your investments. 
June 18, 2014, 09:15:29 PM
A question, if the coins are not sold out in the end of crowd sale, what will deal with the left ones?
June 18, 2014, 09:09:57 PM
Jake,
Thanks for the post. You are welcome to your opinion. I'll be working hard to make the API Network delivers lots of features that provide value to developers.
Then we disagree that this is a "raise".
The project is selling access to software. That's part of why there is a notice on the site to try and make that clear.
From the API Network Website:
"1. Participation in the API Network / XAP crowdsale will not provide you with a "security" or "equity" stake in this project. The digital token known as XAP is only useful for accessing the API Network software when its development is complete."
I appreciate your concern and I'll redouble my efforts to be transparent with the community in every project I decide to invest in and take part in.
I honestly believe this model of crowdsales can be really positive for the community and building new technology.
David A. Johnston
Thanks for the post. You are welcome to your opinion. I'll be working hard to make the API Network delivers lots of features that provide value to developers.
Then we disagree that this is a "raise".
The project is selling access to software. That's part of why there is a notice on the site to try and make that clear.
From the API Network Website:
"1. Participation in the API Network / XAP crowdsale will not provide you with a "security" or "equity" stake in this project. The digital token known as XAP is only useful for accessing the API Network software when its development is complete."
I appreciate your concern and I'll redouble my efforts to be transparent with the community in every project I decide to invest in and take part in.
I honestly believe this model of crowdsales can be really positive for the community and building new technology.
David A. Johnston
I invested in this coin and hope you honor what you promised.
June 18, 2014, 08:21:08 PM
remind me of maidsafe ipo.
Another kind of scam.
Another kind of scam.
June 18, 2014, 07:27:01 PM
all you have is a white paper and a little code, and you are trying to raise $5m? you really need some luck
I dont understand either.
June 18, 2014, 05:25:02 PM
there are real people behind this project.
its certainly not a scam and the development team building the project are looking to this crowdsourcing campaign to help make it possible
its certainly not a scam and the development team building the project are looking to this crowdsourcing campaign to help make it possible
June 18, 2014, 03:47:19 PM
Jake,
Thanks for the post. You are welcome to your opinion. I'll be working hard to make the API Network delivers lots of features that provide value to developers.
Then we disagree that this is a "raise".
The project is selling access to software. That's part of why there is a notice on the site to try and make that clear.
From the API Network Website:
"1. Participation in the API Network / XAP crowdsale will not provide you with a "security" or "equity" stake in this project. The digital token known as XAP is only useful for accessing the API Network software when its development is complete."
I appreciate your concern and I'll redouble my efforts to be transparent with the community in every project I decide to invest in and take part in.
I honestly believe this model of crowdsales can be really positive for the community and building new technology.
David A. Johnston
Thanks for the post. You are welcome to your opinion. I'll be working hard to make the API Network delivers lots of features that provide value to developers.
Then we disagree that this is a "raise".
The project is selling access to software. That's part of why there is a notice on the site to try and make that clear.
From the API Network Website:
"1. Participation in the API Network / XAP crowdsale will not provide you with a "security" or "equity" stake in this project. The digital token known as XAP is only useful for accessing the API Network software when its development is complete."
I appreciate your concern and I'll redouble my efforts to be transparent with the community in every project I decide to invest in and take part in.
I honestly believe this model of crowdsales can be really positive for the community and building new technology.
David A. Johnston
You're simply wrapping another fraudulent raise in clean sheets.
Time and the SEC will tell. I suspect that within 2 years you will see major jail-time for this, and by that time the crypto community will have caught on to the scam.
June 18, 2014, 03:42:33 PM
Jake,
Thanks for the post. You are welcome to your opinion. I'll be working hard to make the API Network delivers lots of features that provide value to developers.
Then we disagree that this is a "raise".
The project is selling access to software. That's part of why there is a notice on the site to try and make that clear.
From the API Network Website:
"1. Participation in the API Network / XAP crowdsale will not provide you with a "security" or "equity" stake in this project. The digital token known as XAP is only useful for accessing the API Network software when its development is complete."
I appreciate your concern and I'll redouble my efforts to be transparent with the community in every project I decide to invest in and take part in.
I honestly believe this model of crowdsales can be really positive for the community and building new technology.
David A. Johnston
Thanks for the post. You are welcome to your opinion. I'll be working hard to make the API Network delivers lots of features that provide value to developers.
Then we disagree that this is a "raise".
The project is selling access to software. That's part of why there is a notice on the site to try and make that clear.
From the API Network Website:
"1. Participation in the API Network / XAP crowdsale will not provide you with a "security" or "equity" stake in this project. The digital token known as XAP is only useful for accessing the API Network software when its development is complete."
I appreciate your concern and I'll redouble my efforts to be transparent with the community in every project I decide to invest in and take part in.
I honestly believe this model of crowdsales can be really positive for the community and building new technology.
David A. Johnston
June 18, 2014, 03:26:18 PM
Just had a chat with the API network team at: https://www.hipchat.com/gFP0CCs4O
As a good crypto citizen, I believe that we should be issuing a strong warning for this raise.
Conclusion:This "team" is raising bitcoins on a $9,750,000 - $16,670,000 valuation for a product which is unfinished, has zero market traction, and has failed in a previous iteration. This "crowdfunding" attempt is merely an effort to capitalize off of uneducated investors pockets. Any seasoned tech angel investor or venture capitalist would run from this valuation, lack of legal certainty regarding profit distribution, and incompetent team.
The crypto-currency community as a whole needs to bring awareness to these scams to shed publicity like this:
http://www.finra.org/investors/protectyourself/investoralerts/fraudsandscams/p456458
As a good crypto citizen, I believe that we should be issuing a strong warning for this raise.
Quote
Jake Collatz
12:54 PM
Hello
Sam Onat Yilmaz
12:54 PM
Hi Jaek
Jake sorry I misspelled your name
Jake Collatz
12:54 PM
When does the crowdsale start?
Sam Onat Yilmaz
12:54 PM
got excited to have you here
Jake Collatz
12:54 PM
Sam Onat Yilmaz
12:54 PM
it has started and we are 27 BTC into it
buyxap.com
Jake Collatz
12:55 PM
What is the total amount that you're raising?
Sam Onat Yilmaz
12:55 PM
gives you tha btc address to send to
first batch 500 BTC, the crowdsale continue until all of the volume is sold. 500 + 1,000 + 2,000 + 4,692
as the tokens are bought, as this is a sign of market demand, the price is set to increase
D Johnston
12:56 PM
We are letting the market decide how much volume and at what price.
Here check out this article I wrote on this approach.
Sam Onat Yilmaz
12:56 PM
you can see the prices on the website buyxap.com
Jake Collatz
12:56 PM
Ah so that is 8,192 total bitcoins?
D Johnston
12:56 PM
https://github.com/DavidJohnstonCEO/CrowdsaleBestPractices
DavidJohnstonCEO/CrowdsaleBestPractices
Crowdsale Best Practices "Let The Market Decide"
Sam Onat Yilmaz
12:57 PM
correct, that is the cap on the raise
Jake Collatz
12:57 PM
which is 3,000,000 xap?
Sam Onat Yilmaz
12:57 PM
correct
Jake Collatz
12:57 PM
and there will be 10,000,000 xap in total, correct?
Sam Onat Yilmaz
12:57 PM
correct
but at the end of the crowdsale there will only be 5,000,000 xap
Jake Collatz
12:58 PM
Can you verify that all company profits will be channelled through these 10,000,000 xap?
Sam Onat Yilmaz
12:58 PM
the remaining 5,000,000 will be issued over time
D Johnston
12:58 PM
Firstly, for example the API Network is offering API Coins (XAP) at a rate of 1.6 mBTC per XAP for the first 500 bitcoins worth of sales. The price increases to 2.13 mBTC per XAP during the sale of the next 1,000 bitcoins worth of XAP. The price then increases to 2.66 mBTC per XAP during the sale of the next 2,000 bitcoins worth of XAP. Lastly, the price increases to 3.12 mBTC per XAP during the sale of the last 4,692 bitcoins worth of XAP.
It is worth noting that neither the API Network team expect to collect the maximum number of bitcoins by selling out all of their tokens (though it is possible if demand has been radically underestimated). Instead, both project have set a range of price points and are leaving it up to the market to decide the proper price of API Coins (XAP). If the market decides these projects are highly valued, than the price of the coins will reach a higher level during the crowdsale. Conversely, if the market decides that these projects are not as highly valued, than the price of the coins will not rise as high during the crowdsale. Either way the pricing of these tokens is for the market to determine.
Hide full text
Sam Onat Yilmaz
12:59 PM
Jake, I presume you are asking if all the service purchases will be purchased with APICoins.
And that is true
Jake Collatz
12:59 PM
I'm just getting an accurate sense of what this raise is, and what I'd be investing in
Sam Onat Yilmaz
1:00 PM
Just clarifying because there is no company-a centralized entity- turning a profir
profit*
the demand for the services of the application will be reflected in the demand for the coin
Jake Collatz
1:00 PM
yes, but this is analogous to another corporate structure
Jake Collatz
1:01 PM
it just means that the shareholders are rewarded by xap ownership
Jake Collatz
1:01 PM
either the shares raise in value because of corporate profits, or in this case, xap raises in value
D Johnston
1:01 PM
Well, just to be clear its not an equity or share (you might be using the term generally).
Sam Onat Yilmaz
1:01 PM
just for legal correctness perhaps it would be better to use the phrase "stake holders" since there are no shares
Jake Collatz
1:01 PM
Ok, stake holders
Sam Onat Yilmaz
1:01 PM
the tokens are pre-sale of services of the network
D Johnston
1:01 PM
token holder
cure.
Sam Onat Yilmaz
1:02 PM
correct
the xap rises in value as the application handles more transactions and delivers more services
D Johnston
1:02 PM
Sure*
Jake Collatz
1:02 PM
so you're selling 30% stake for about $5,000,000 usd, correct?
D Johnston
1:02 PM
Correct. If it were to all sell out.
Though we aren't expecting that.
Jake Collatz
1:03 PM
what do you expect?
Sam Onat Yilmaz
1:03 PM
so the nuance here Jake is that if we collected 4,000 BTC
D Johnston
1:04 PM
We set the range wide enough where it the market can decide
Sam Onat Yilmaz
1:04 PM
the valuation of all tokens will be less than 5,000,000 with more room to grow
that is why it is better to get in early as with the demand for the tokens, the tokens' price will be climbing during the crowdsale
D Johnston
1:04 PM
Its 100% better price for the first 500 BTC worth.
Than if the sale gets to the last portion.
Jake Collatz
1:05 PM
so if you just sell 500btc worth
Jake Collatz
1:05 PM
you'd be selling 312,500 xap
Jake Collatz
1:05 PM
correct?
D Johnston
1:06 PM
Correct.
1:06 PM
Paul Snow joined the room.
Jake Collatz
1:07 PM
that would be 3.1% of total xap
Jake Collatz
1:07 PM
yes?
1:10 PM
Curtis Lacy left the room.
D Johnston
1:10 PM
Of the 10,000,000 eventual total yes.
Hey Paul.
Paul Snow
1:11 PM
hello
Jake Collatz
1:11 PM
So you're effectively raising on somewhere between a 9.75m and 16.67m valuation, correct?
D Johnston
1:11 PM
Though the 5,000,000 for the developer pool, third party pool, and node incentive will be paid out via the network over a long period of time.
Well, if I wanted to know the valuation of Bitcoin I'd do it on the ones that exist vs future bitcion.
Jake Collatz
1:12 PM
Can you explain?
D Johnston
1:12 PM
Sure.
So with 12,000,000 BTC in circulation
I'd multiple that times the price of BTC
Jake Collatz
1:12 PM
understood.
D Johnston
1:12 PM
So for API Coin
I'd do the same
Jake Collatz
1:13 PM
what is the current progress on the project?
D Johnston
1:13 PM
At max the crowdsale will end with 5,000,000 in circulation.
Maybe as low as 2,000,000
Or its more like we are selling between a 2,000,000 valuation and a 10,000,000 valuation.
Jake Collatz
1:14 PM
I'm not sure
Jake Collatz
1:14 PM
What is the distribution
Jake Collatz
1:14 PM
of the other coins?
D Johnston
1:14 PM
https://github.com/APINetwork/ProtocolSpec#total-distribution-of-apicoins-xap
APINetwork/ProtocolSpec#total-distribution-of-apicoins-xap
Protocol Specification for API Network
Here is the break down.
Jake Collatz
1:15 PM
Ok thank you
D Johnston
1:15 PM
https://github.com/APINetwork/personal-data-module
APINetwork/personal-data-module
Access a variety of data sources in a simple, consistent way.
D Johnston
1:15 PM
As for the progress the project already has a ton of code.
It is acquiring from the Engine Inc. project whom is open sourcing it.
Jake Collatz
1:16 PM
what is the status of engine?
D Johnston
1:16 PM
This was a formally closed company that is deciding to open all its code to open source through the API Network crowdsale and platform.
Transitioning from private company to open source.
API Network is now the focus of all its founders and developers.
Jake Collatz
1:16 PM
did it raise funds? was it profitable?
D Johnston
1:16 PM
See team here.
Jake Collatz
1:17 PM
re: engine
D Johnston
1:17 PM
http://www.apinetwork.co/
Yep raised money from Angel Investors, however the team pivoted to the open source approach about 6 months ago before its production launch.
And that we when it was programming the front end as well.
Jake Collatz
1:18 PM
So engine has not launched a product?
D Johnston
1:18 PM
Now all focus is on the platform and marketplace itself.
D Johnston
1:20 PM
It did a demonstration of the tech as a Beta to pull in use data and had lots of beta testers. www.Engine.co
Jake Collatz
1:20 PM
Ok, this is fascinating!
12:54 PM
Hello
Sam Onat Yilmaz
12:54 PM
Hi Jaek
Jake sorry I misspelled your name
Jake Collatz
12:54 PM
When does the crowdsale start?
Sam Onat Yilmaz
12:54 PM
got excited to have you here
Jake Collatz
12:54 PM
Sam Onat Yilmaz
12:54 PM
it has started and we are 27 BTC into it
buyxap.com
Jake Collatz
12:55 PM
What is the total amount that you're raising?
Sam Onat Yilmaz
12:55 PM
gives you tha btc address to send to
first batch 500 BTC, the crowdsale continue until all of the volume is sold. 500 + 1,000 + 2,000 + 4,692
as the tokens are bought, as this is a sign of market demand, the price is set to increase
D Johnston
12:56 PM
We are letting the market decide how much volume and at what price.
Here check out this article I wrote on this approach.
Sam Onat Yilmaz
12:56 PM
you can see the prices on the website buyxap.com
Jake Collatz
12:56 PM
Ah so that is 8,192 total bitcoins?
D Johnston
12:56 PM
https://github.com/DavidJohnstonCEO/CrowdsaleBestPractices
DavidJohnstonCEO/CrowdsaleBestPractices
Crowdsale Best Practices "Let The Market Decide"
Sam Onat Yilmaz
12:57 PM
correct, that is the cap on the raise
Jake Collatz
12:57 PM
which is 3,000,000 xap?
Sam Onat Yilmaz
12:57 PM
correct
Jake Collatz
12:57 PM
and there will be 10,000,000 xap in total, correct?
Sam Onat Yilmaz
12:57 PM
correct
but at the end of the crowdsale there will only be 5,000,000 xap
Jake Collatz
12:58 PM
Can you verify that all company profits will be channelled through these 10,000,000 xap?
Sam Onat Yilmaz
12:58 PM
the remaining 5,000,000 will be issued over time
D Johnston
12:58 PM
Firstly, for example the API Network is offering API Coins (XAP) at a rate of 1.6 mBTC per XAP for the first 500 bitcoins worth of sales. The price increases to 2.13 mBTC per XAP during the sale of the next 1,000 bitcoins worth of XAP. The price then increases to 2.66 mBTC per XAP during the sale of the next 2,000 bitcoins worth of XAP. Lastly, the price increases to 3.12 mBTC per XAP during the sale of the last 4,692 bitcoins worth of XAP.
It is worth noting that neither the API Network team expect to collect the maximum number of bitcoins by selling out all of their tokens (though it is possible if demand has been radically underestimated). Instead, both project have set a range of price points and are leaving it up to the market to decide the proper price of API Coins (XAP). If the market decides these projects are highly valued, than the price of the coins will reach a higher level during the crowdsale. Conversely, if the market decides that these projects are not as highly valued, than the price of the coins will not rise as high during the crowdsale. Either way the pricing of these tokens is for the market to determine.
Hide full text
Sam Onat Yilmaz
12:59 PM
Jake, I presume you are asking if all the service purchases will be purchased with APICoins.
And that is true
Jake Collatz
12:59 PM
I'm just getting an accurate sense of what this raise is, and what I'd be investing in
Sam Onat Yilmaz
1:00 PM
Just clarifying because there is no company-a centralized entity- turning a profir
profit*
the demand for the services of the application will be reflected in the demand for the coin
Jake Collatz
1:00 PM
yes, but this is analogous to another corporate structure
Jake Collatz
1:01 PM
it just means that the shareholders are rewarded by xap ownership
Jake Collatz
1:01 PM
either the shares raise in value because of corporate profits, or in this case, xap raises in value
D Johnston
1:01 PM
Well, just to be clear its not an equity or share (you might be using the term generally).
Sam Onat Yilmaz
1:01 PM
just for legal correctness perhaps it would be better to use the phrase "stake holders" since there are no shares
Jake Collatz
1:01 PM
Ok, stake holders
Sam Onat Yilmaz
1:01 PM
the tokens are pre-sale of services of the network
D Johnston
1:01 PM
token holder
cure.
Sam Onat Yilmaz
1:02 PM
correct
the xap rises in value as the application handles more transactions and delivers more services
D Johnston
1:02 PM
Sure*
Jake Collatz
1:02 PM
so you're selling 30% stake for about $5,000,000 usd, correct?
D Johnston
1:02 PM
Correct. If it were to all sell out.
Though we aren't expecting that.
Jake Collatz
1:03 PM
what do you expect?
Sam Onat Yilmaz
1:03 PM
so the nuance here Jake is that if we collected 4,000 BTC
D Johnston
1:04 PM
We set the range wide enough where it the market can decide
Sam Onat Yilmaz
1:04 PM
the valuation of all tokens will be less than 5,000,000 with more room to grow
that is why it is better to get in early as with the demand for the tokens, the tokens' price will be climbing during the crowdsale
D Johnston
1:04 PM
Its 100% better price for the first 500 BTC worth.
Than if the sale gets to the last portion.
Jake Collatz
1:05 PM
so if you just sell 500btc worth
Jake Collatz
1:05 PM
you'd be selling 312,500 xap
Jake Collatz
1:05 PM
correct?
D Johnston
1:06 PM
Correct.
1:06 PM
Paul Snow joined the room.
Jake Collatz
1:07 PM
that would be 3.1% of total xap
Jake Collatz
1:07 PM
yes?
1:10 PM
Curtis Lacy left the room.
D Johnston
1:10 PM
Of the 10,000,000 eventual total yes.
Hey Paul.
Paul Snow
1:11 PM
hello
Jake Collatz
1:11 PM
So you're effectively raising on somewhere between a 9.75m and 16.67m valuation, correct?
D Johnston
1:11 PM
Though the 5,000,000 for the developer pool, third party pool, and node incentive will be paid out via the network over a long period of time.
Well, if I wanted to know the valuation of Bitcoin I'd do it on the ones that exist vs future bitcion.
Jake Collatz
1:12 PM
Can you explain?
D Johnston
1:12 PM
Sure.
So with 12,000,000 BTC in circulation
I'd multiple that times the price of BTC
Jake Collatz
1:12 PM
understood.
D Johnston
1:12 PM
So for API Coin
I'd do the same
Jake Collatz
1:13 PM
what is the current progress on the project?
D Johnston
1:13 PM
At max the crowdsale will end with 5,000,000 in circulation.
Maybe as low as 2,000,000
Or its more like we are selling between a 2,000,000 valuation and a 10,000,000 valuation.
Jake Collatz
1:14 PM
I'm not sure
Jake Collatz
1:14 PM
What is the distribution
Jake Collatz
1:14 PM
of the other coins?
D Johnston
1:14 PM
https://github.com/APINetwork/ProtocolSpec#total-distribution-of-apicoins-xap
APINetwork/ProtocolSpec#total-distribution-of-apicoins-xap
Protocol Specification for API Network
Here is the break down.
Jake Collatz
1:15 PM
Ok thank you
D Johnston
1:15 PM
https://github.com/APINetwork/personal-data-module
APINetwork/personal-data-module
Access a variety of data sources in a simple, consistent way.
D Johnston
1:15 PM
As for the progress the project already has a ton of code.
It is acquiring from the Engine Inc. project whom is open sourcing it.
Jake Collatz
1:16 PM
what is the status of engine?
D Johnston
1:16 PM
This was a formally closed company that is deciding to open all its code to open source through the API Network crowdsale and platform.
Transitioning from private company to open source.
API Network is now the focus of all its founders and developers.
Jake Collatz
1:16 PM
did it raise funds? was it profitable?
D Johnston
1:16 PM
See team here.
Jake Collatz
1:17 PM
re: engine
D Johnston
1:17 PM
http://www.apinetwork.co/
Yep raised money from Angel Investors, however the team pivoted to the open source approach about 6 months ago before its production launch.
And that we when it was programming the front end as well.
Jake Collatz
1:18 PM
So engine has not launched a product?
D Johnston
1:18 PM
Now all focus is on the platform and marketplace itself.
D Johnston
1:20 PM
It did a demonstration of the tech as a Beta to pull in use data and had lots of beta testers. www.Engine.co
Jake Collatz
1:20 PM
Ok, this is fascinating!
Conclusion:This "team" is raising bitcoins on a $9,750,000 - $16,670,000 valuation for a product which is unfinished, has zero market traction, and has failed in a previous iteration. This "crowdfunding" attempt is merely an effort to capitalize off of uneducated investors pockets. Any seasoned tech angel investor or venture capitalist would run from this valuation, lack of legal certainty regarding profit distribution, and incompetent team.
The crypto-currency community as a whole needs to bring awareness to these scams to shed publicity like this:
http://www.finra.org/investors/protectyourself/investoralerts/fraudsandscams/p456458
June 18, 2014, 11:57:26 AM
all you have is a white paper and a little code, and you are trying to raise $5m? you really need some luck
thanks - we appreciate the feedback from the community and want to answer all the questions coming to us, the API network will be using the technology developed by engine.co and opensourcing it
We also have a strong team made up of people who are interested in seeing the potential for this project realized
June 18, 2014, 11:55:19 AM
Man, buyxap.com is still down, what happened?
we just updated the website with the BTC address, it is working now and please feel free to join this chatroom for live support and questions about the crowdsale: https://www.hipchat.com/gFP0CCs4O
June 18, 2014, 11:31:26 AM
We are now live!! Bitcoin has starting coming in and we appreciate the support from the community
June 18, 2014, 11:04:07 AM
Man, buyxap.com is still down, what happened?
June 17, 2014, 04:50:15 PM
And XCP same???
different, XAP coin is using the Master Protocol from Mastercoin
whereas XCP = CounterParty, a similar protocol
June 17, 2014, 12:44:39 PM
We are having our 1st Google Hangout with the creators behind XAP coin and the API Network, the broadcast is viewable at
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKgb61yQNHs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKgb61yQNHs
June 16, 2014, 10:01:52 PM
And XCP same???
June 16, 2014, 09:57:07 PM
API Network official press release: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bw_D-1wK1JG_a2NvVEtTMUE4T00/edit?usp=sharing
June 16, 2014, 02:54:08 PM
all you have is a white paper and a little code, and you are trying to raise $5m? you really need some luck
June 16, 2014, 01:18:58 PM
strange - whitepaper link not working.
Please use: https://github.com/APINetwork/ProtocolSpec
We've just updated the url and are in the process of updating our links, thanks for the post!
June 16, 2014, 06:32:02 AM
strange - whitepaper link not working.
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