Topic: [ANN][SIM] Simcoin - A Simple Coin - page 10. (Read 157752 times)

Again, I will believe it when I see it.

And how is that different from Bitcoin's unconfirmed transactions?


Seems to me like reliability of this is far below 100%, at the point where everybody will still wait 10+ confirmations just to be sure, nobody wants to lose money.

And there go your instant transactions.

yes, after <1 second you will be able to spend the funds again and will have a confirmation that it was indeed sent.

Still this doesn't make it 100% safe from manipulation.

Is this supposed to be a refutation? Because you just stated the same thing: TF still requires 10+ confirmations.

This shatters all the overexcited posts about how it will make everything instant and take NXT to VISA level. Whether something was "common knowledge" or not has no relevance whatsoever.

How many times have I heard this:

This is an elaborate attack, and only worthwhile for bigger amounts, everyone should anyway wait for 10 confirmations with NXT to reach bitcoins security of 1 conf.

This was common knowledge.

Hm, so apparently there is a race condition with TF in NXT, which requires waiting for 10+ confirmations to fix.

https://nxtforum.org/transparent-forging/race-condition-attack/

So much for "TF will solve everything and make transactions instant".

Told ya that TF is fragile.

Progress report

I think I should stop writing "another slow week", it's becoming a cliché

The client subscription system basically works. Tested it with quarter of a million subscribed addresses - it's very fast.

--

Now I plan to focus on the voting system, because I clearly underestimated it.

At first I thought: well, I will just add it later, how difficult could that be? Turns out, pretty difficult

To allow voting with stake we can either:

1. "color" coins
2. or lock them

1. Color coins

"Coloring" coins is a bad idea: if somebody buys a large amount of coins to increase his voting power, the last thing he wants is to find out that those coins have already been used in this poll and he now can't vote with them. Also tracking what money participated in what polls is complicated.

2.1. Explicit locking

This puts a burden on the user to decide what part of his money to use (and lock) in each poll, and on the system to track these locks. Many people will also wait till the last moment to lock their funds, and this can cause abrupt spikes of activity on the last day of voting, hurting system performance.

2.2. Implicit locking

We could lock the money implicitly by trying to count votes at poll closing time. This is very bad for performance to the point of being infeasible if we want scalability. Plus, you just know that many users will forget that they voted, move or spend money, and then complain that not all their votes counted.

Coin days

We could try to use coin days for voting, but it's a bad idea too: you can only spend them on one poll at a time. This means you can simply "run out" of your voting power.

It also encourages hoarding and adds another dimension to the problem (time), which complicates things - for example exchanges and other services that hold your money will gain excessive power.

Vote delegation

It would be nice to have the ability to delegate your voting power to representatives, but this opens a whole new can of worms...

--

So you see, it's not that trivial.




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IoWJkrlptNs

Oh yeah, that's probably the best word to describe him right now. Thanks, I forgot such a nice word exists

I think jl777 is megalomaniac now, I don't think supernet will succeed, maybe jl777 will make big money for himselft, you know.

Hey NxtChg! Glad to see you're working on crypto$ again.

Damn I missed the IPO (by a mile!) Too much happening way too fast in cryptoland. I'll finally get to check out your exchange

You might enjoy this cephalopod simulator (The original game is free, the sequel is commercial.) (Or you might break your mouse in frustration. It's the sort of game that polarizes gamers.)

There are issues with freezing balances. For example, you can only vote in one poll at a time or there needs to be a complicated system to track these locks and their expiration dates. It's also inconvenient to have your money frozen. Would be nice to find a better solution.

Maybe that concept can help: ForozenCoin http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2g5qqq/frozencoin_a_concept/

I cannot make snapshots of the whole ledger. The system must scale, this means that it should work with 1 and 10 and even 100 million accounts. So the ledger can potentially be several gigabytes in size. Making a snapshot of it every time somebody creates a poll is infeasible.

Will this work?

1. "Vote now!" is broadcast, including start time and stop times for vote.
2. Nodes receive the broadcast, make a snapshot of the current confirmed balance, and keeps that value until the stop time of the vote. So even if all fees are transferred prior to the actual vote is cast, the 'voting power' is still determined at the initial broadcast.

The price you pay, is that the unconfirmed balances in transit are not counted. Is this a big deal?

just a thought
Pentamon

Oh my god, could you please spend your feeble intellectual powers on your own projects?

What local snapshot? Each node already has a "local snapshot", it's called the ledger. Making yet another copy only for accounts that voted won't make any difference, the system will still have to count, say, 100,000 votes.

And how would this even work? Alice votes, I record her balance, she moves money to Bob, he votes, I record his balance, now what?

And doing the copy of the whole ledger for each poll is even more retarded.

Go away. Enjoy your delusion that you are a genius somewhere else.

a bit more overhead, but could you take a snapshot of all the balances locally as of a specific voting time. Then the votes can come in whenever (up to a deadline) and each node can then lookup in their copy of the snapshot to give each vote the right weight. If somebody is moving around their balances, it wont matter as the weight of the vote is based on the snapshot made. probably would need to make doing a vote pretty expensive to prevent spam elections.

James

I thought about doing some sort of voting tokens, but this has its own problems.

People need to be able to vote with their stake. This means that at the time the poll closes the system has to calculate stakes for everybody who voted and this can take time if 100,000 people voted, for example. During this time balances must be frozen and transactions can't be processed.

What I would like is to have some sort of additional "voting" balance, which is incremented with each voting transaction. But then people can move their stake to another account and vote again.

Another approach would be to charge a fee to convert your account into a voting account, for example 10,000 SIM, and then just count votes. This way people can still vote with their stake by creating lots of dummy accounts, but this is bad for database size.

Last option is to vote with real money, but this is also not a perfect solution and would be a bad choice for many polls.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.8297934

Basically, the core should be finished by the end of September, after that I can start hiring people to build stuff around it and the official launch will probably be in the spring 2015.

is it not plausible to either handle multiple chains? or at least have multiple data types within the single chain.
so voting could be on a more relaxed chain than transactions, or at least a more relaxed time frame.

also different data types could have different arbitrary durations in the chain.

Is there estimate for launch? Something like, Winter 2015? Summer 2015?

a few people have tipped this coin to me. I'm holding although would be a nice return even now.