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Topic: [ANN][SLR] SolarCoin - PoW reward for solar energy | the GREEN KING of Crypto - page 37. (Read 138370 times)

sr. member
Activity: 414
Merit: 250
Freedom through Cryptocurrency!
Hi everyone,

Since PoS is a topic of interest around here, I want to let you all know that the SolarCoin Foundation Board has been having some in-depth conversations about ideas for possible PoS implementation or other ways to reduce the inflation rate. At this point, we're still just discussing various options and nothing has been decided yet. We're serious about improving the technical and economics aspects of this currency.

In that vein, I'd like to hear some thoughts from the community about a few ideas. If you had to pick between the following choices, which would you prefer?

A. Switch to PoS with a high staking interest rate (10%+ per year)
B. Switch to PoS with a lower staking interest rate (somewhere from 1% to 10% per year)
C. Continue PoW but reduce mining reward so that fewer new coins would be created.

If you can explain the reasons for your answer, that would be even more helpful. Thanks!

This is not an official survey, just one Board member who is curious to hear people's opinions.

I can see PoS implemented in the future. An actuarial study should be performed to find the proper interest rate this coin should have, and whether it should be fixed, variable, what rate it should fluctuate etc. It will increase the incentive to producers to file a claim. If PoS is implemented however the mining reward will have to be reduced as a ratio of interest earnings otherwise the coin might inflate and could potentially ruin the incentive it's attempting to promote.

So yes on PoS and reduce PoW in a way that's proportional to the plan of the incentive. Making a mid course correction now can have great benefit to the entire program. It needs to be flexible but also not bend to every whim of the community.

That's essentially the proposal I worked on all weekend and put forward to the Board! Smiley (What Charles is describing)

Sounds like there's certainly some similarities. Epiphany's proposal has a gradually declining interest rate over the years, taking into consideration the gradually increasing rate of generator claims. But just to clarify, corather, it sounded to me like you're suggesting the possibility of something even more complex: a fluctuating variable interest rate which could take into account other factors as well. Are you suggesting that the interest rate could fluctuate continuously based on the short-term rate changes of SolarCoin claims -- i.e. when claims are high, staking interest would be low, and vice versa, so that the fluctuation of the overall inflation rate would be dampened rather than swinging with the swings in generator claims? Or are you suggesting some other reasoning for the variability of staking interest rate?
hero member
Activity: 546
Merit: 500
Not sure if everyone has seen this, but it looks like cryptopoolmining is changing their stratum servers.  From site:

"Stratum server address has changed. Click here for more info. Please update your miners. Old stratum server will be available until 26-June-2014. "

"Dear all,

We have moved out stratum server to a new server. The details for the new stratum server are:

stratum+tcp://east-us.cryptopoolmining.com:4803  VarDiff: 8-1024 - Initial: 32
stratum+tcp://east-us.cryptopoolmining.com:4903 VarDiff: 256-4096 - Initial: 512

CryptoPoolMining.com"

…haven't moved miners over yet, but indication is the old stratum is up for only 2 more days?

Thanks for the info, I might not have gotten this news otherwise.
sr. member
Activity: 368
Merit: 250
Not sure if everyone has seen this, but it looks like cryptopoolmining is changing their stratum servers.  From site:

"Stratum server address has changed. Click here for more info. Please update your miners. Old stratum server will be available until 26-June-2014. "

"Dear all,

We have moved out stratum server to a new server. The details for the new stratum server are:

stratum+tcp://east-us.cryptopoolmining.com:4803  VarDiff: 8-1024 - Initial: 32
stratum+tcp://east-us.cryptopoolmining.com:4903 VarDiff: 256-4096 - Initial: 512

CryptoPoolMining.com"

…haven't moved miners over yet, but indication is the old stratum is up for only 2 more days?
sr. member
Activity: 368
Merit: 250
But it's the pool operator who would have to be behind a 51% attack right? The individual doing the hashing can't do an attack if he's mining in a pool, isn't that right?

Looks to be some code to handle the 51% attack in the solarcoin main program:

https://github.com/solarcoin/solarcoin/blob/master/src/main.cpp#L920
sr. member
Activity: 368
Merit: 250
member
Activity: 74
Merit: 10
Oh I don't think they are killing coins deliberately, but the whale (in the fishpond) metaphor is valid.  I guess that having invested 1000' or even 10s of K in these new ASICs you have to plug them in and point them somewhere. 

The issue is more interesting from the POV of the mining community overall. 

As I said earlier, I am a gross newbie at this 'cryptocoin' thing.  I got into it a couple of months back because 3 years ago I put 24 PV panels (4.4Kw) on my roof and now 'mine' 68% or so of the annual households electricity from old Sol.  I saw the solarcoin offer to pay 1 solarcoin / MW initiative and thought it very worthy.  However I don't qualify, as here in NZ we do not have the infrastructure (yet) to authenticate the production.  But that is largely irrelevant as I have only ever produced 17MW total = 17 SLR.

Then I saw some S/H GridSeed units on our local EBAY and brought 3 x 300khz disks and a 5.2Mhz blade.  They were troublesome little sods - early units and probably why they were going 'cheep', but I got them sorted in the end.  The whole lot only use 140W flat out (without the fans) so in keeping with the spirit of things I put them on my workshop solar PV (separate from the house) which has 350W of panel and a 115 AH battery.  Coupled to a old baby fanless PC and XP on a SD card - the whole thing is 180W.  I use a little thermostat to put a single larger fan onto cooling if the rig goes above 25C and that works very well and even in our southern winter I am maintaining H24.  I am now mining solarcoins entirely on solar PV.  Probably a pointless exercise - but it does appeal to my sense of Zen.

Anyway, back to the main topic.   From my limited experience I see several different categories of miners in this scrypt game  (I know next to nothing of the SHA256 community):

The hobbyist and tinkerer (that would be me), who has a small rig of whatever (s)he can afford and spare.  Probably in a previous time the CPU would have searched for SETI et al.  Not really in it for the money at all, and keeps coins in the hope that one day they will pay for a new PC / Car / House whatever.

The Serious Small Miner, who OCDs on the whole scene looking for fiscal plays to make enough fiat or digital coin to pay for the next expansion to keep up with the endless cycle of escalation.

The Big Boys, who see the crypto currencies as an investment and are prepared to put serious money into equipment to play the game at high levels.  As Bitcoin proper becomes a zero sum game with the cost of power a real road block to ROI, the new generation of scrypt ASICs must be very attractive.  And they are now available.  Q4 of this year will see some impressive units coming into play. Well those that are not scams.

At the lower end (that I could afford) - look at the small unit from FlowerTech (https://www.flowertechnology.com/product/the-daisy/).  A direct physical rip off of the small Gridseed format but hashing 10Mhz for $326 and 18W - almost identical cost and watts as the original GS unit which gives 300Khz.   Now that is a 30x improvement in hash power in what - 18 months. 

A good GPU could stand up to a couple of baby Gridseeds, all be it for some extra watts, but against this sort of hash escalation, even at the cheap end of the game - it is hard to draw a road map.

Then you pop one of these on your workbench and plug it in (https://www.flowertechnology.com/product/lilac/) and you have 300Mhz for $7,900.  $26 / Mhz - which would make one of my little GS units worth $9 or so..... Go figure.  Sad Sad

So where does it go from here, with the new wave of ASIC scrypt units coming into play?  I am taking the time on this rather overlong post in the hope of seeing what the other members of this forum think.



   
sr. member
Activity: 406
Merit: 250
But it's the pool operator who would have to be behind a 51% attack right? The individual doing the hashing can't do an attack if he's mining in a pool, isn't that right?

Quite right - and there is no suggestion from me that any of the pool operators who I have knowledge of would be in that game.  My point was that the new ASICs of 200-350Mhz are able to seriously disrupt a coin where the 'normal' hash rate is half that.  More specifically, if that sort of hash hits a pool where 20-30 Mhz is normal (like prominer for example), then strange things can happen.

I cannot for the life of me think through how this wave of change happening now will affect things - I just do not have the experience in the 'mining' game.  But these are certainly interesting times.   But that is a Chinese curse right?

T

Ah gotcha. Smiley It certainly has potential to disrupt things, as you say. I can't imagine anyone paying thousands of dollars for these machines just go around killing coins though... Then again, people do some pretty strange things sometimes.
member
Activity: 74
Merit: 10
But it's the pool operator who would have to be behind a 51% attack right? The individual doing the hashing can't do an attack if he's mining in a pool, isn't that right?

Quite right - and there is no suggestion from me that any of the pool operators who I have knowledge of would be in that game.  My point was that the new ASICs of 200-350Mhz are able to seriously disrupt a coin where the 'normal' hash rate is half that.  More specifically, if that sort of hash hits a pool where 20-30 Mhz is normal (like prominer for example), then strange things can happen.

I cannot for the life of me think through how this wave of change happening now will affect things - I just do not have the experience in the 'mining' game.  But these are certainly interesting times.   But that is a Chinese curse right?

T
sr. member
Activity: 406
Merit: 250
But it's the pool operator who would have to be behind a 51% attack right? The individual doing the hashing can't do an attack if he's mining in a pool, isn't that right?
legendary
Activity: 1708
Merit: 1000
Solarcoin.org
I was trying to figure out where the extra hash rate was coming from and looky! Miningpoolhub is quite active! I didn't even know about them and they're right on page 1. Nice.  Cool

http://solarcoin.miningpoolhub.com/

256 MHs and 7 miners.

A whale with ~320MHz of hash (scrypthash) has been doing the rounds of SolarCoin in the past few hours.  He was on Prominer.org for a while and blew up the front end.  He then moved to solarcoin.miningpoolhub where currently they are showing 456Mhz of a grand total of 566Mhz.  Not that healthy a situation and well over the 51% ....

With the new large bore ASICs obviously now coming on line, this local swamping of the traditional (smaller) rigs will be a real problem for pool stability, not to mention the very real possibly of a chain takeover.



In light of this news I've redirected all of my tiny gpu rig back onto prominer. I have a small asic also but it doesn't like vardiff one bit so i can't use it on prominer.
member
Activity: 74
Merit: 10
I was trying to figure out where the extra hash rate was coming from and looky! Miningpoolhub is quite active! I didn't even know about them and they're right on page 1. Nice.  Cool

http://solarcoin.miningpoolhub.com/

256 MHs and 7 miners.

A whale with ~320MHz of hash (scrypthash) has been doing the rounds of SolarCoin in the past few hours.  He was on Prominer.org for a while and blew up the front end.  He then moved to solarcoin.miningpoolhub where currently they are showing 456Mhz of a grand total of 566Mhz.  Not that healthy a situation and well over the 51% ....

With the new large bore ASICs obviously now coming on line, this local swamping of the traditional (smaller) rigs will be a real problem for pool stability, not to mention the very real possibly of a chain takeover.

sr. member
Activity: 406
Merit: 250
I was trying to figure out where the extra hash rate was coming from and looky! Miningpoolhub is quite active! I didn't even know about them and they're right on page 1. Nice.  Cool

http://solarcoin.miningpoolhub.com/

256 MHs and 7 miners.
legendary
Activity: 1736
Merit: 1001
sr. member
Activity: 406
Merit: 250
Shiiit... Looks like my strategy is a loser already! LOL Difficulty popped to 11 as I was typing. Maybe someone is trying the same strategy I am??? I should have just bought them like Vip did.  Shocked
sr. member
Activity: 406
Merit: 250
picked up 52,000 solarcoins for $213.00

Thank you.  Cool

Shut UP! Nice!  Grin
legendary
Activity: 1736
Merit: 1001
picked up 52,000 solarcoins for $213.00

Thank you.  Cool
sr. member
Activity: 406
Merit: 250
Pfff...price is riddiculous low

That's because at this difficulty, it's cheaper to mine them than buy them? Although not by much now. I bought a contract on NiceHash last night and mined away at 50 MHs. The total cost per SLR was 378 satoshis by the time my contract was done. So I went ahead and bought another contract today since the price when I last checked was 500 sats.

I'd suggest if your goal is to accumulate coins, start mining them again. Things have stabilized nicely on the mining front now, so if people do point machines here again (or hash contracts), the difficulty will go back up and so will the price. That's how it's supposed to work anyway, right?  Cheesy

I think we're stuck in a catch 22 situation right now because it's not profitable to mine, but if your goal is to accumulate more SLR before block halving (or switch to PoS, whichever comes first), then mining seems to be the answer. But if too many do that then the volume on the exchanges might dry up and price could still suffer. Or it could go back up. I have no idea...

All I know is that I am accumulating more and don't intend to sell them anytime soon...  Kiss
sr. member
Activity: 368
Merit: 250
Hi everyone,

Since PoS is a topic of interest around here, I want to let you all know that the SolarCoin Foundation Board has been having some in-depth conversations about ideas for possible PoS implementation or other ways to reduce the inflation rate. At this point, we're still just discussing various options and nothing has been decided yet. We're serious about improving the technical and economics aspects of this currency.

In that vein, I'd like to hear some thoughts from the community about a few ideas. If you had to pick between the following choices, which would you prefer?

A. Switch to PoS with a high staking interest rate (10%+ per year)
B. Switch to PoS with a lower staking interest rate (somewhere from 1% to 10% per year)
C. Continue PoW but reduce mining reward so that fewer new coins would be created.

If you can explain the reasons for your answer, that would be even more helpful. Thanks!

This is not an official survey, just one Board member who is curious to hear people's opinions.

I would choose option B  with around 3.5% interest rate a year. that changes every year per the board.

Also the block reward would need to drop from 100 to around 1 to 5 coins a minute

PoS would also help the housholds that get there solarcoins from solarpower most of these people do not mine coins
as they would get 3.5% a year for holding on to there coins without having to mine them.
This would also be better then gold or silver coins since they pay no interest  Grin

This would add another selling point when a person from a solar install company tells a home buyer not only will you be able
to claim solar coins but you get interest on the ones you claim as long as you hold them.


+1 both corather & vipgelsi ideas :-)

sr. member
Activity: 406
Merit: 250
Absolutely fantastic article out today by Sam Bliss! It got me all excited again. Cheesy

http://www.triplepundit.com/2014/06/solarcoin-digital-eco-money-can-equitable/
legendary
Activity: 1736
Merit: 1001
Hi everyone,

Since PoS is a topic of interest around here, I want to let you all know that the SolarCoin Foundation Board has been having some in-depth conversations about ideas for possible PoS implementation or other ways to reduce the inflation rate. At this point, we're still just discussing various options and nothing has been decided yet. We're serious about improving the technical and economics aspects of this currency.

In that vein, I'd like to hear some thoughts from the community about a few ideas. If you had to pick between the following choices, which would you prefer?

A. Switch to PoS with a high staking interest rate (10%+ per year)
B. Switch to PoS with a lower staking interest rate (somewhere from 1% to 10% per year)
C. Continue PoW but reduce mining reward so that fewer new coins would be created.

If you can explain the reasons for your answer, that would be even more helpful. Thanks!

This is not an official survey, just one Board member who is curious to hear people's opinions.

I would choose option B  with around 3.5% interest rate a year. that changes every year per the board.

Also the block reward would need to drop from 100 to around 1 to 5 coins a minute

PoS would also help the housholds that get there solarcoins from solarpower most of these people do not mine coins
as they would get 3.5% a year for holding on to there coins without having to mine them.
This would also be better then gold or silver coins since they pay no interest  Grin

This would add another selling point when a person from a solar install company tells a home buyer not only will you be able
to claim solar coins but you get interest on the ones you claim as long as you hold them.
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