Topic: [ANN][VRC] VeriCoin Proof of Stake-Time Currency | New Roadmap Released - page 330. (Read 1356147 times)

things are looking veribad at the moment

You're making a mountain out of a mole hill. There are no fake numbers, unless you count the ones that you fabricated in your post while attempting to make some point. The stake weight number, which factors in both the quantity AND age of the coins in a block, is a valid number and it's a crucial part of the PoS system.

The crux of the matter is the fact that, while the sum total of the stake weight for every block that's staking is useful for getting a relative feel for how many coins are staking, it can obviously be a misleading number. It would make more sense to the end user for the wallet to display the actual number of coins staking, but as pnosker stated and effects elaborated upon, there is currently no function in place to display that number.

So what should we do? Should we ignorantly shout, "THIS IS BULLSHIT!!" and allude to suspicious behavior on the part of the devs? Or should we perhaps try to understand what that number actually represents and/or ask the devs if they can provide us with a different number that is a more accurate representation of the number of coins staking? I vote for the later.

It sounds like this feature can be added and that effects actually intends to add it to a future build. Let's not beat a dead horse.

Barb... it took me 2 sec of googling that stakeweight is different from total coins are staked it happens that the more coins are stake the higher the stakeweight is. Some  community members, including me, have talking about "12 million coins staked" in the past that was because of lack of understanding or maybe it happend that due to coinage that it was acctually the staked coin amount. But because now many moved their coins to their wallet from exchanges and stake them . those coins have a high coinage -> which leads to higher stakeweight  
High stakeweight means strong network and less sell pressure .

So you dont have to bring people in uncertainty , if i would guess i would say you wait for btc from another coin to finaly buy good so low right now and accumulate there for you. But just my oppinion.

I also wanna say something for mid term trader. Regardless of the development of this coin , vericoin is on some midterm alltime low.
there are people who invest in coins by only looking at the charts and a alltimelow is a buy indicator , maybe the strongest one.

You just need to know 3 things:

Alltime low
+
Obviously serious coin
+
Active devs
=
Buy

I dont even dont know why i am telling you guys , i for myself waiting for my paycheck to buy vericoin at those prices damn :/.

Noob at trading here - but I am looking o invest more in vrc at this price but need some help. Is it better to put buy orders in in many ranges or would it be better to just assist in creating a bigger buy wall at 11k  ?

Can you please add a tl;dr to the end of that so I can get the sum of what you're saying without wasting 10 minutes of my time? Thanks in advance!

I don't think I am hard at all simply putting out very obvious concerns of everyone that is invested in this coin. I mean, I have been stating many times during the past weeks how strong this community is in support of the coin, based on those staking numbers and now I have discovered they are absolutely meaningless. Not only that, while not-too-sharp choir boy socal and other fan boys put on the tin foil to "explain" the spiral in price, the apparent growth of staking figures made almost impossible for anyone to have any coins at the exchanges. And a lot of people do. And a lot of people, is, obviously, selling. Much more than buying (that's why the price goes down). So I believe I have been actually quite mild in clearing up a bit -still far from being quite clear, by the way-, the mess of the "fake" numbers (for lack of a better word).

Perspective: A max of 28+ "coins" were staking yesterday at some point. Historical maximum. Now, since the total coins in existence were 26.8 mill, we have found there are somewhat "ghost", "fake", whatever "coins" that appear in that tracking tool that don't really exist (I am still struggling with how those appear and, more worrysome, DO stake). Patrick has kindly try his best at explaining that somehow, even though they are staking, the whole interest to be created, yearly, will not increment to more than 2.5% annually. That's reassuring but certainly it doesn't look even remotely that way from what we now know... which is very little.

This divergence between the real coins and the Phantom coins staking, according to Doug, the wallet man, would not be "too much bigger"... I hope I have demonstrated clearly that the difference can be as significant as to actually DOUBLE the number of the real coins: My contention is that while the Phantom number reached over 28 million yesterday, they real number could be, in fact, half of that. Or even less. And I explained why: The amount of coins currently deposited in the exchanges and NOT STAKING, in my opinion would be at least 6-8 million, probably more. Add to that the "in transit" coins or otherwise not live (staking) coins -they need a minimum of 8 hours to begin staking-, and you can end up with a lot of coins that are not staking and therefore are not part of of those record 28+m.

Finally, additionally, 28+ million coins staking stake quite a bit of coins. Those staked coins are not PHANTOM coins, they are real. So real that, after 8 hours, they stake themselves, thus increasing the total number of coins in existence. Again, Patrick insisted that no more than 2.5% will be staked by any coin in any year. That's, again, reassuring, but the reality of the picture I just put, again, in perspective, makes it quite difficult to really believe.

I believe these are matters of great significance and need to be clear out completely so investors know where they have invested and retain their confidence in the project. Much more important that the spiral of the price that I have pointed out many times already is not VRC's affair but every other similar coin out there.

As for the not-so-sharp, bots are not market manipulators, bots are machine traders programmed to buy and sell minimal amounts for minimal profits. They don't manipulate the price at all. If a bot buys 800 sat below the previous price, 20 VRC, that's not manipulating anything, just following a program. The bot will buy just the same if the price is propped up by a big buyer. And will sell it likewise, regardless of the price. Once again: The price is going down for the simplest and always true of reasons: There are more sellers than buyers.

Also clarifying for the not-so-sharp, volume is quite different from inflows. The former indicates there's trading taken place; the later indicates there's investing occurring. If one or more traders take it to VRC and they buy and sell a lot, not only they do it but the bots also do it -that's what their program does-, thus resulting in very high volume... and not necessarily any real movement in price; on the other hand if a lot of people buys VRC but don't sell it, it is called inflow and means people is investing, buying VRC, bringing new money to it. And the price, mathematically, goes higher. In technical terms, it is called hitting the bid (dumping) or hitting the ask (pumping). Clear now Will?

I understood you don't have and it was very kind of you answering and dealing with that nonsensical rumours at the time when it was mentioned. I can imagine you did not start this process to deal with this all kind of nonsenses, but on the other hand when people losing so much money like they do with vericoin only you can explain that everything is legit and you did it, and thanks for that. Thanks for doing the project and hopefully your team can continue to develop the coin, and then we bag holders feel a bit better about holding and even buying more.

I don't even have an M3... just a 2008 135i ($16k on the used market now) :-p. Also, I've been dealing with a lot of stuff over the past couple of weeks and have been quite preoccupied by it. Sorry for being somewhat absent. I'm back now, though!

Yes, I fully agree. The coin is basically the devs and it is very important how the devs handle the communication with the community. If there is an impression that the coin is developed by an elitist, arrogant dev team that attitude is that this our coin, we do what we want and we don't have to say anything for bag holders then that probably isn't the best selling point for the coin. If the coin developed by a team that don't mind to spend 5-10 minutes a day to communicate with the community here (which seems is the case in the last 1-2 days) then that sends a nice message to potential investors.

I had a lot and still have viacoin and I don't mind at all the 240 BTC volume there and I could realize very reasonable BTC profit with viacoin in the last 24 hours, but as a vericoin bag holder it breaks my heart that at least a good portion of that viacoin money could come here if the community-devs communication would be a bit better, the cheerleading brigade would stop spreading the usual nonsense and the devs would put more focus on developing blockchain 2 features.

Ohhh that's right, I forgot to calculate transaction fees. Well thank you very much for taking the time to break this down (as well as for PNosker for his time). I appreciate the response and am happier for now knowing more about how it works. 

For the past few days, the communication between the community has been positive, I know people have questions and they should since they invested. I really love how the devs have been coming here to clear the air and layout upcoming plans. 

It seems from the discussions and brain storming during the week in this thread that many of us strongly believe the blockchain 2 development could save this coin and start increasing the price in this difficult altcoin market. It's quite clear that the blockchain 2 development is very important for many bag holders, investors and probably potential investors as well. EffectToCause dev indicated in this thread yesterday that a white paper is coming from the devs on the subject. Would be it possible to know when the white paper will be published please? I am not asking definite due date, but are we talking about days, weeks or months regarding the time frame of blockchain 2 white paper release?

Exactly, that's what I was trying to argue yesterday, but the cheerlading brigade argument is that if you hold the coin then the value will increase, so it seems that's the main strategy for growth.

and by sitting and holding tight the value will go up how? i love those slogans, just repeat them from time to time and everything will be ok 

I think Barrabas you have raised a very valid point (usually you do) by questioning the difference between the network weight and number of actual staking coins. It's quite encouraging that the devs made effort to address the issue by answering here and have listened you, and then EffectsToCasuse said a new function will be in a new release to provide users with the number of actual staking coins.

To go forward I would suggest don't be so harsh with the devs please. I have been also very critical with the devs, but these young guys obviously aren't scammers. I guess under pressure people make unwise moves like moving 200k to bittrex, but the fact that Pnosker disclosed this info himself indicate that it wasn't a malicious action. Pnosker is trying his best to address all rumours about him and he made clear that he didn't buy any BMW M3 from the vericoin money, he is still committed to the project, he is not dumping his coins, he didn't move the 200K to bittrex to dump it. Plus these guys offer a very transparent process for investors by putting their name in the public domain.
In my opinion there is a very positive change in the last 1-2 days, namely that the devs started to talk to the community in this thread and instead of just communicating with their cheerleading brigade they started to interact with the investors, bag holders, potential new investors of this thread as well. I guess we shouldn't alienate the devs from this process, let's keep the momentum going, let them deliver something that hopefully change the down trend.

Just sit and hold tight. We will get there

The longest quest is the journey to fortune
And while it's okay to do well and succeed in life
We often forget to live
This is an expedition, crusade if you will
To go for that moment when time freezes
And where everything changes
But nothing seems to matter anymore
So let right now be a point in time
Where you recognize that not all wealth is silver and gold
And that most of the time the prize isn't the endgame
But the road towards it

+1
Big thanks to the dev team for clarifying all the things.

I wonna say thanks to the devs for spending their time in answering the questions. This and the huge payouts from the mining pool and from staking in the last 24 hours gave me back the good feeling and confidence I was beginning to lose.

Hmm - nice theory but in reality there is 2nd.

SO - Do you think that all markets can be manipulated all at once?
LTC NXT DOGE PPC DRK... all is going down (only some big IPO not ).

Now what could happened... Current big IPOs + many big scams ( AC WC USB EDGE XLB +51% attacks ) lets value it.
Etherum - $14.5m
Bitshares - $6m
Scams - $2m

So you have over real $20m taken  from market in last 6 months.
Those are money directly taken out from alt scene...

Do you think when coin is rated at $10m market cap it needs $8m dump to get price -80%.
No because order books are thick you sell 100 BTC of coin = 60 000$and you will dump price to -50%.

Now think how devastating was that +$20 000 000 m IPOs for TOP 20 marketcap coins
most of those money comes from other alts.
New big IPO are coming...
SysCoin - how many BTC it will cut off -  I don't know seriously
(if that will be again IPO for few m$ then expect to price fall more on ALL alts )

Please check out here, there is also some other things the Devs are working on but have not been announced because they are very preliminary and subject to change and not to mention the ever present lack of volume, and artificial price suppression, I am sure that once some of our bigger features come out volume will return full force (or at least full force for the state the alt coin market is in right now) and the price manipulators will be bought out and they will no longer be able to stop our uptrends.

Notice how for the past few weeks EVERYTIME we have started an uptrend the price gets dumped back to the starting point of the uptrend? Classic sign of manipulation