[ANN][VRC] VeriCoin Proof of Stake-Time Currency | New Roadmap Released - page 543.

phzi

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Quote from: smoothie on July 14, 2014, 12:11:04 AM

3. VRC devs can deliver a roll back that helps mintpal and all users on that exchange but ignores any miners who are mining VRC and have not updated to the new client. And anyone who has received VRC in that time frame of the rollback.

It seems increasingly likely that there possibly never was even an attack on mintpal. Seems more likely to me that MintPal somehow lost the coins or private keys, and the VRC devs are helping them recover their lost coins.

These question need to be answered before anyone should ever considering trusting the VRC devs:

The next time this happens - there is a large theft of VRC - what will happen?
How big of a theft must occur to warrant a blockchain rollback?

smoothie

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LEALANA Bitcoin Grim Reaper

Quote from: cryptoholic11 on July 14, 2014, 12:13:11 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Dont mind me, I FUD other coins that might threaten my (Cloak) investments

@smoothie...if you dont want to touch VRC, then why have you wasted your entire day typing shit storm after shit storm. wouldnt be a wiser decision to gtfo and find a coin you would like to touch, so you can make some money?

"Entire day" =/= 2 to 3 hours

my day wasnt a waste to me. Full of entertainment I'd say.

smoothie

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Quote from: Shill on July 14, 2014, 12:06:41 AM

Quote from: smoothie on July 13, 2014, 11:56:31 PM

Quote from: buy4crypto on July 13, 2014, 06:00:11 PM

Rollback will be the death of the scammers dreams of making out with 2 million dollars, thats about it.

I love people getting mad that criminals will not be getting paid this evening!

to bad, so sad. Poor criminals.

And you want to know what makes it worse for the criminals, and they know this. Is this could backfire on those hoping for a drop, after a initial panic (or maybe not depending on outcome) I bet you see the price rise as MEDIA will take this over.

For everybody in crypto some like this some don't, lets say half like it, half don't. Well, with all this media, we may be getting after this. I bet you the half that don't like it will be drowned out with the new wave of investors, just a thought. Those BC scammers aren't happy about this.

Not mad at all. Please don't put words in my mouth since you want to put "everybody" into this category.

I just like calling out the BS that is going on.

Good luck with VRC as now it will be tarnished (in my view) on the trust aspect. VRC devs made a huge mistake here. This is called damage control but it will not change the inevitable.

Time will tell.

Yes we have heard this now a dozen fucking times from you. It's past the point of disagreement you are trolling. Leave, oh and you are ignored.

Another one bites the dust and presses the pussy ignore button. Cheesy

cryptoholic11

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Dont mind me, I FUD other coins that might threaten my (Cloak) investments

@smoothie...if you dont want to touch VRC, then why have you wasted your entire day typing shit storm after shit storm. wouldnt be a wiser decision to gtfo and find a coin you would like to touch, so you can make some money?

Celani10

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Quote from: smoothie on July 14, 2014, 12:11:04 AM

Quote from: chunkyjunkie on July 14, 2014, 12:02:23 AM

About 5 crypto stalkers posting 20 times a minute that think vrc is worthless. Funny how a worthless coin attracts so much attention from people who want to buy it, no matter how much they deny.

You can't blame them either vrc devs have shown they can deliver. They have further proven they are here to stay even when a 3rd party f's up in the most negligent of ways.

What are you even blabbing about?

1. This is my first day posting on a VRC thread.

2. I don't want to touch a coin that can be rolled back on a moment's notice.

3. VRC devs can deliver a roll back that helps mintpal and all users on that exchange but ignores any miners who are mining VRC and have not updated to the new client. And anyone who has received VRC in that time frame of the rollback.

4. They have only proven that they will do damage control. What happens the next time there is a huge hack or scam? Roll back? Or double standard?

Dude So why the fuck are you here?

You are here the last 2 hours...

You want to make money and you making FUD to drop the price.

Only idiots will believe in you

smoothie

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LEALANA Bitcoin Grim Reaper

Quote from: chunkyjunkie on July 14, 2014, 12:02:23 AM

About 5 crypto stalkers posting 20 times a minute that think vrc is worthless. Funny how a worthless coin attracts so much attention from people who want to buy it, no matter how much they deny.

You can't blame them either vrc devs have shown they can deliver. They have further proven they are here to stay even when a 3rd party f's up in the most negligent of ways.

What are you even blabbing about?

1. This is my first day posting on a VRC thread.

2. I don't want to touch a coin that can be rolled back on a moment's notice.

3. VRC devs can deliver a roll back that helps mintpal and all users on that exchange but ignores any miners who are mining VRC and have not updated to the new client. And anyone who has received VRC in that time frame of the rollback.

4. They have only proven that they will do damage control. What happens the next time there is a huge hack or scam? Roll back? Or double standard?

Shill

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Quote from: smoothie on July 13, 2014, 11:56:31 PM

Quote from: buy4crypto on July 13, 2014, 06:00:11 PM

Rollback will be the death of the scammers dreams of making out with 2 million dollars, thats about it.

I love people getting mad that criminals will not be getting paid this evening!

to bad, so sad. Poor criminals.

And you want to know what makes it worse for the criminals, and they know this. Is this could backfire on those hoping for a drop, after a initial panic (or maybe not depending on outcome) I bet you see the price rise as MEDIA will take this over.

For everybody in crypto some like this some don't, lets say half like it, half don't. Well, with all this media, we may be getting after this. I bet you the half that don't like it will be drowned out with the new wave of investors, just a thought. Those BC scammers aren't happy about this.

Not mad at all. Please don't put words in my mouth since you want to put "everybody" into this category.

I just like calling out the BS that is going on.

Good luck with VRC as now it will be tarnished (in my view) on the trust aspect. VRC devs made a huge mistake here. This is called damage control but it will not change the inevitable.

Time will tell.

Yes we have heard this now a dozen fucking times from you. It's past the point of disagreement you are trolling. Leave, oh and you are ignored.

Bobsurplus

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Making money since I was in the womb! @emc2whale

This is one big scam!! I feel really bad for the dude who stole the coins. He's getting truly fucked here!

phzi

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Quote from: ofp on July 14, 2014, 12:03:47 AM

This is a very good point indeed and the risk will only disappear if and when more people will stake the coins in their own wallet. This is exactly what we heard from devs tonight.

Yet this will never happen, because the devs have made it clear that MintPal's mistake is perfectly fine.

Quote from: effectsToCause on July 14, 2014, 12:04:25 AM

Thanks for hanging in there with us through this, quite a day. We successfully thwarted the theft of coins and prevented an attack on the blockchain. Go here to download the new wallet:

What a complete load of crap - is everyone else reading this complete bullshit? "prevented an attack on the blockchain"... wow... just wow.

YOU have facilitated an attack on the blockchain! YOU are altering the ledger. YOU are being deceptive and dishonest. 2 wrongs don't make a right, as they say, and you're as much in the wrong as whoever exploited mintpal (if anyone even did exploit mintpal... who knows - maybe mintpal just lost their private keys!).

That's actually a solid possibility here, considering the coins haven't moved since they were apparently withdrawn. What do you want to bet MintPal screwed up themselves and sent their coins to addresses that they lost the private keys to? Would make more sense then them being stupid enough to have that many coins in a hot wallet.

Quote from: J9901 on July 14, 2014, 12:04:36 AM

Finally some OFFICIAL statements from MP concerning our VRC (for those who had VRC in Mintpal)

Quote

"What will happen to my VRC?
The VeriCoin that you hold on the MintPal exchange will be unaffected thanks to the VeriCoin developers. As we previously announced, the VRC developers have worked tirelessly to perform something never before done by a cryptocurrency and rollback the blockchain in order to reverse the two malicious transactions. This was not done out of a desire to save MintPal, but rather a desire to save your coins. Once the updated wallet has been distributed and the new fork is active we will re-open our VRC wallet to facilitate withdrawals.

How can I get my VRC?
As soon as we re-open our wallet your VRC balances will be available for withdraw. All market orders on the VRC/BTC market have been cancelled. We will be manually processing withdrawals to ensure the process works as expected."

More at: https://support.mintpal.com/index.php?module=announce&sec=view&id=18

Glad to see they are saying "Rollback the blockchain" - whoever was shouting at me before for making clear that this isn't a hardfork, it's a rollback, can go eat their hat.

J9901

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Activity: 490

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Finally some OFFICIAL statements from MP concerning our VRC (for those who had VRC in Mintpal)

Quote

"What will happen to my VRC?
The VeriCoin that you hold on the MintPal exchange will be unaffected thanks to the VeriCoin developers. As we previously announced, the VRC developers have worked tirelessly to perform something never before done by a cryptocurrency and rollback the blockchain in order to reverse the two malicious transactions. This was not done out of a desire to save MintPal, but rather a desire to save your coins. Once the updated wallet has been distributed and the new fork is active we will re-open our VRC wallet to facilitate withdrawals.

How can I get my VRC?
As soon as we re-open our wallet your VRC balances will be available for withdraw. All market orders on the VRC/BTC market have been cancelled. We will be manually processing withdrawals to ensure the process works as expected."

More at: https://support.mintpal.com/index.php?module=announce&sec=view&id=18

effectsToCause

hero member

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VeriCoin & Verium Creator/Developer

Hi Everybody new wallet is up!

Thanks for hanging in there with us through this, quite a day. We successfully thwarted the theft of coins and prevented an attack on the blockchain. Go here to download the new wallet: www.vericoin.info

Backup your wallet.dat first before proceeding, it's location is listed below for your system.

Windows:
We recommend deleting everything but wallet.dat in your username\appdata\roaming\VeriCoin folder and running the default installer settings. This will load up the full block and you will be on the splash screen for 10-15 minutes while it loads at the blockchain data.

Mac:
We recommend deleting everything but wallet.dat from user/library/applicationsupport/vericoin and putting these two files in this directory as well: http://www.vericoin.info/downloads/vericoin.conf http://www.vericoin.info/downloads/bootstrap.dat
You will sit at the splash screen for 10-15 minutes while the whole blockchain loads up.

noerc

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Quote from: btminer8 on July 13, 2014, 11:30:25 PM

Quote from: bigc1984 on July 13, 2014, 11:27:06 PM

Quote from: noerc on July 13, 2014, 11:24:31 PM

Was hard to catch up in this thread since I went out to the soccer game. I can understand that having 30% of the coins under the control of a single person is dangerous in a coin-age principle PoS system - especially when this person got them for free. Still I can not support this roll back.

First, as mentioned in a post before, what if someone bought goods for VRC a couple of hours ago? From what I see you can currently take advantage of the fact that the upcoming rollback is not known to everyone and purchase things on the current blockchain which soon will be obsolete. Who is responsible for these losses?

Secondly, I don't see why a full rollback is necessary. You could also just remove these coin outputs through a mandatory client update, effectively reducing the supply of VRC but keeping all transactions that use other coin outputs valid. This way the integrity of the blockchain would remain to some extend, but the coins stolen would be worthless.

Of course, Mintpal would not like this solution, but the community should prefer it and the 51% attack would be avoided.

The fact that someone could have traded a shit load of VRC for other coins and now will get the VRC back AND get to keep the coins they traded for is ridiculous.

Stolen coins has not moved or sold on exchanges.

Its not just about trading to other coins and not about the stolen coins directly. What if I purchased something with my legally owned coins 4 hours ago and the counterparty didn't know about the upcoming rollback? I would get my coins back and the guy I bought from will have nothing.

So why did pnosker decide to roll back the complete blockchain? You could also remove the stolen coins, its a bit more tricky to implement but he can code. This would be by far the better solution for the community.

ofp

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Quote from: Dadams on July 13, 2014, 11:58:52 PM

Quote from: chunkyjunkie on July 13, 2014, 11:57:56 PM

Quote from: Dadams on July 13, 2014, 11:53:37 PM

Quote from: chunkyjunkie on July 13, 2014, 11:48:45 PM

Also love the fact that the FUD posters ignore the simple reason why it was not a choice but a necessity to fork to protect the community.

1 entity controlling 8 million coins that decided to stake them all would have had well over the 51% needed of the STAKING coins.

They will continue to ignore it.

Just so I understand correctly:
Are you saying that Mintpal (forgetting about the hack at the moment) already had the power to do a majority attack against the VRC network?
How is it different from the hacker owning the coin or Mintpal owning it?
Isn't the whole problem that it is just one entity owning the coin and able to attack the system?
If it isn't dangerous if Mintpal holds it, how is it suddenly dangerous now?

Mintpal I doubt would jeopardize their arguably decent business for vrc a coin you are trying to say is worthless.

I am 100% sure mintpal will not allow this to happen again. Also the community will not let it happen. No way will they trust a 3rd party entity that keeps 8 million in a hot wallet.

Um.. what do you mean? Mintpal is a 3d party that kept 8mil in one hotwallet.
Hence our problem here.

Edit for clarity:
If 8mil belonging to one person is too dangerous, then Mintpal with or without the hack is dangerous.
A kindof ghash.io situation isn't it?

This is a very good point indeed and the risk will only disappear if and when more people will stake the coins in their own wallet. This is exactly what we heard from devs tonight.

phzi

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Quote from: smoothie on July 13, 2014, 11:49:29 PM

Quote from: barabbas on July 13, 2014, 05:08:52 PM

How many rolls back in the future is the question?

The clear answer: As many as situations grant. Any and all thefts will be reversed. How's that for assurance, transparency and honesty?

Ultimately VRC will be worth what its community determines and supports. What's with all these familiar names (all associated one way or5 another with BC and The Black Hand, by the way) that never ever posted here and now come to post shit against hard forking and leaving the thieves with nothing? People add two plu two, come on!

"VRC, the PayPal of cryptos". Cheesy

Glad to see smoothie stepping it up with the anti-FUDing while I was out enjoying some food, lol.

Much respect.

Quote from: testcoin on July 14, 2014, 12:02:47 AM

It's funny that people can live with the Option 3 in real world, but cannot accept it happen in crypto world

This is another double standard that people should think more about it

Fiat money and blockchain ledgers are two vastly different things. Trying to make this function like reversible fiat money is exactly where the devs went wrong.

testcoin

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Quote from: Dadams on July 13, 2014, 11:36:17 PM

Quote from: Alphi on July 13, 2014, 11:32:24 PM

Quote from: Dadams on July 13, 2014, 11:26:09 PM

Quote from: ofp on July 13, 2014, 11:18:01 PM

Quote from: Dadams on July 13, 2014, 11:07:45 PM

2. Fork the blockchain to block the stolen coins and effectively destroy them.
Vericoin will survive. Hacker has no coins. No threat to system. Coin amount reduced, value goes up.
Mintpal customers lose, this is Mintpal and the hackers fault. Mintpal needs to reimburse.
Mintpal could die.

Sorry, but I believe this option 2 doesn't exist at all.

How can you possibly admit that certain coins are invalid because they were stolen and not return them to their owners? It makes no sense whatsoever. You either ignore the crime or give them back to their owners.

It would be similar to Mintpal losing the keys to their wallet.
They made a mistake. Responsibility belongs to them,
if they admit the hack and there is fear that coins end up with an immoral entity that could harm the infrastructure, this would be a way to protect the infrastructure.

Intuitively it might feel wrong but think about it a bit more.
This option exists because it is a compromise.
In the compromise, people will not be able to call it a chargeback or a bailout hence the reputation of VRC will be spared.
VRC devs feel they have to act out of 51% attack fear. This will negate it.
The community will support this decision if it is either this or option 1, denying hacker the coin or letting the hacker have the coin.
The only people who will feel very strongly against this decision are not VRC holders in general, just those who left a lot of their money on an exchange. This will also be a lesson for them then.

Actually in my perfect world, all 3 options would be created by devs and then community can decide which blockchain to support and build on.

you can only "destroy" the coins by hard coding and blocking the address that holds them..

given that vericoin has its own inbuilt mixing service. I am not sure that all the coins would be stored in the one location for long or are even traceable.

if the coins get mixed and split up into numerous addresses then there is virtually no hope of "destroying" them.
what you would have to do is shut down the entire network and then block each address that has the coins.. you cannot do this while the network is running because the thief can simply keep moving the coins to different addresses

for all intents and purposes the devs probably went with option 3 .. roll back (effectively destroying every transaction that has happened since the hack) because option 2 was simply not practical.

Thank you very much for responding to my mental exercise of option 2.
If it is truly impractical or impossible and it was between option 1 and 3, if I was dev I would probably go with 3 as well.
Option 1, although more honest and safe for the ideology of cryptos would be too risky for devs.

It is clear that VRC devs didn't have better soluton other than rolling back the blockchain

Think about it, if someone robbed a bank in our real world, no one would even consider the Option 1 unless the Option 3 was not possible

It's funny that people can live with the Option 3 in real world, but cannot accept it happen in crypto world

This is another double standard that people should think more about it

chunkyjunkie

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About 5 crypto stalkers posting 20 times a minute that think vrc is worthless. Funny how a worthless coin attracts so much attention from people who want to buy it, no matter how much they deny.

You can't blame them either vrc devs have shown they can deliver. They have further proven they are here to stay even when a 3rd party f's up in the most negligent of ways.

smoothie

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LEALANA Bitcoin Grim Reaper

Quote from: Bobsurplus on July 13, 2014, 11:58:01 PM

Quote from: chunkyjunkie on July 13, 2014, 11:54:38 PM

Quote from: Bobsurplus on July 13, 2014, 11:50:53 PM

Quote from: smoothie on July 13, 2014, 11:49:29 PM

Quote from: barabbas on July 13, 2014, 05:08:52 PM

How many rolls back in the future is the question?

The clear answer: As many as situations grant. Any and all thefts will be reversed. How's that for assurance, transparency and honesty?

Ultimately VRC will be worth what its community determines and supports. What's with all these familiar names (all associated one way or5 another with BC and The Black Hand, by the way) that never ever posted here and now come to post shit against hard forking and leaving the thieves with nothing? People add two plu two, come on!

"VRC, the PayPal of cryptos". Cheesy

+10000

This rollback is the biggest joke in crypto since Doge! :p

Welcome to the clueless club. 8 million coins staking would be well over the 51% of staking coins. So doing nothing would be better? It is what it is and many small individual coin holders will be saved instead of 1 hack thief making a lot of money. Yeah I see your logic.

Again, the clueless club is rampant tonight led by smoothie. Ask him for your membership card, you earned it.

I don't give two shits as to what the reason behind the rollback is. The rollback is enough for me to start going off. I feel bad for the investors but they chose to invest in a coin which was attacked and will now die a horrible death.

I guess I am clueless to call it as I see it.

Yup been here for over 3 years....look at my track record.

Vericoin will die a slow death. This is only damage control from the devs.

Dadams

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Quote from: chunkyjunkie on July 13, 2014, 11:57:56 PM

Quote from: Dadams on July 13, 2014, 11:53:37 PM

Quote from: chunkyjunkie on July 13, 2014, 11:48:45 PM

Also love the fact that the FUD posters ignore the simple reason why it was not a choice but a necessity to fork to protect the community.

1 entity controlling 8 million coins that decided to stake them all would have had well over the 51% needed of the STAKING coins.

They will continue to ignore it.

Just so I understand correctly:
Are you saying that Mintpal (forgetting about the hack at the moment) already had the power to do a majority attack against the VRC network?
How is it different from the hacker owning the coin or Mintpal owning it?
Isn't the whole problem that it is just one entity owning the coin and able to attack the system?
If it isn't dangerous if Mintpal holds it, how is it suddenly dangerous now?

Mintpal I doubt would jeopardize their arguably decent business for vrc a coin you are trying to say is worthless.

I am 100% sure mintpal will not allow this to happen again. Also the community will not let it happen. No way will they trust a 3rd party entity that keeps 8 million in a hot wallet.

Um.. what do you mean? Mintpal is a 3d party that kept 8mil in one hotwallet.
Hence our problem here.

Edit for clarity:
If 8mil belonging to one person is too dangerous, then Mintpal with or without the hack is dangerous.
A kindof ghash.io situation isn't it?

Bobsurplus

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Activity: 1008

Merit: 1000

Making money since I was in the womb! @emc2whale

Quote from: chunkyjunkie on July 13, 2014, 11:54:38 PM

Quote from: Bobsurplus on July 13, 2014, 11:50:53 PM

Quote from: smoothie on July 13, 2014, 11:49:29 PM

Quote from: barabbas on July 13, 2014, 05:08:52 PM

How many rolls back in the future is the question?

The clear answer: As many as situations grant. Any and all thefts will be reversed. How's that for assurance, transparency and honesty?

Ultimately VRC will be worth what its community determines and supports. What's with all these familiar names (all associated one way or5 another with BC and The Black Hand, by the way) that never ever posted here and now come to post shit against hard forking and leaving the thieves with nothing? People add two plu two, come on!

"VRC, the PayPal of cryptos". Cheesy

+10000

This rollback is the biggest joke in crypto since Doge! :p

Welcome to the clueless club. 8 million coins staking would be well over the 51% of staking coins. So doing nothing would be better? It is what it is and many small individual coin holders will be saved instead of 1 hack thief making a lot of money. Yeah I see your logic.

Again, the clueless club is rampant tonight led by smoothie. Ask him for your membership card, you earned it.

I don't give two shits as to what the reason behind the rollback is. The rollback is enough for me to start going off. I feel bad for the investors but they chose to invest in a coin which was attacked and will now die a horrible death.

chunkyjunkie

hero member

Activity: 494

Merit: 500

Quote from: Dadams on July 13, 2014, 11:53:37 PM

Quote from: chunkyjunkie on July 13, 2014, 11:48:45 PM

Also love the fact that the FUD posters ignore the simple reason why it was not a choice but a necessity to fork to protect the community.

1 entity controlling 8 million coins that decided to stake them all would have had well over the 51% needed of the STAKING coins.

They will continue to ignore it.

Just so I understand correctly:
Are you saying that Mintpal (forgetting about the hack at the moment) already had the power to do a majority attack against the VRC network?
How is it different from the hacker owning the coin or Mintpal owning it?
Isn't the whole problem that it is just one entity owning the coin and able to attack the system?
If it isn't dangerous if Mintpal holds it, how is it suddenly dangerous now?

Mintpal I doubt would jeopardize their arguably decent business for vrc a coin you are trying to say is worthless.

I am 100% sure mintpal will not allow this to happen again. Also the community will not let it happen. No way will they trust a 3rd party entity that keeps 8 million in a hot wallet.

I can't imagine how much vrc will be moved off mp as this settles out. Many will also realize that a coin that transacts as fast as vrc does is fine sitting in their wallets staking. This will further strengthen the system after this educational experience.

Topic: [ANN][VRC] VeriCoin Proof of Stake-Time Currency | New Roadmap Released - page 543. (Read 1356163 times)