[ANN][VRC] VeriCoin Proof of Stake-Time Currency | New Roadmap Released - page 546.

ofp

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Activity: 70

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Quote from: Dadams on July 13, 2014, 11:26:09 PM

Quote from: ofp on July 13, 2014, 11:18:01 PM

Quote from: Dadams on July 13, 2014, 11:07:45 PM

2. Fork the blockchain to block the stolen coins and effectively destroy them.
Vericoin will survive. Hacker has no coins. No threat to system. Coin amount reduced, value goes up.
Mintpal customers lose, this is Mintpal and the hackers fault. Mintpal needs to reimburse.
Mintpal could die.

Sorry, but I believe this option 2 doesn't exist at all.

How can you possibly admit that certain coins are invalid because they were stolen and not return them to their owners? It makes no sense whatsoever. You either ignore the crime or give them back to their owners.

It would be similar to Mintpal losing the keys to their wallet.
They made a mistake. Responsibility belongs to them,
if they admit the hack and there is fear that coins end up with an immoral entity that could harm the infrastructure, this would be a way to protect the infrastructure.

Intuitively it might feel wrong but think about it a bit more.
This option exists because it is a compromise.
In the compromise, people will not be able to call it a chargeback or a bailout hence the reputation of VRC will be spared.
VRC devs feel they have to act out of 51% attack fear. This will negate it.
The community will support this decision if it is either this or option 1, denying hacker the coin or letting the hacker have the coin.
The only people who will feel very strongly against this decision are not VRC holders in general, just those who left a lot of their money on an exchange. This will also be a lesson for them then.

Actually in my perfect world, all 3 options would be created by devs and then community can decide which blockchain to support and build on.

This option can only happen by mistake or be considered by a geek who simply doesn't like the sunlight.
If devs decided to follow this road they would be dead from a moral point of view.
It was either a crime or not.

smoothie

legendary

Activity: 2492

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LEALANA Bitcoin Grim Reaper

Quote from: CryptoLTD on July 13, 2014, 03:11:15 PM

Quote from: blacky90 on July 13, 2014, 02:42:52 PM

guys this why need a decentralized exchange somthing like this http://bithalo.org/

No, its why exchanges need to be held to a higher standard, a& be registered, so they are by law bound to 3rd party auditing. This is why I trade sizable qty only on cryptsy.

Yup we are in the wild west stage. Some day I suspect this type of BS operation will cease to exist in any meaningful manner. Mostly the ones who use fiat conversion will need this type of stringent regulation on operation.

Interesting thing to look at in an international court of law. What laws of what countries hold up in this type of situation? Definitely curious how this would play out in the future once cryptos get more popular.

Bobsurplus

legendary

Activity: 1008

Merit: 1000

Making money since I was in the womb! @emc2whale

LMAO. Vericoin devs are jokes. ROLLBACK? What is this.. Walmart. I cant believe you guys are really rolling back to protect mintpal.

Any VRC holders are surely going to lose money on this one.

socal

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Activity: 532

Merit: 500

CryptoTalk.Org - Get Paid for every Post!

Quote from: bigc1984 on July 13, 2014, 11:29:26 PM

Quote from: btminer8 on July 13, 2014, 11:27:01 PM

Quote from: bigc1984 on July 13, 2014, 11:24:46 PM

Quote from: SeDz on July 13, 2014, 11:22:13 PM

Quote from: smoothie on July 13, 2014, 11:18:53 PM

Quote from: Rekatan on July 13, 2014, 02:08:23 PM

This has the potential to ruin the coin or result in it coming back stronger than ever. We still hold the remaining 70% so as long as vericoin holders continue to be so active, we're just fine here. Also keep in mind that exchanges will definitely update to the new wallet, and quite a bit was being held in exchanges, so it's not quite as difficult as it appears to reach 51%.

Of course the exchanges are going to update it is their ass on the line and the devs are literally giving them a hand out by supporting the hard fork idea.

whats your problem ?? you are here saying bullshit for more than 3 hours..
do you want to open ppl eye? hmm no.. you just want ppl to dump so you can buy it cheap

trust me... lol.. no one wants to buy.

I would. If this fork is successful and coins go back to their rightful owners.

You are just a bag holder trying to retain value in a coin that is obviously dead. The rightful owners of the coins are whoever used a security flaw to steal them, it's their reward.

You sir are a FUD spewing idiot please do humanity a favor and remove yourself from the genepool and stop wasting our precious resources in the most expedient fashion, I'll even buy you the bullet to do it with.

FUD_master

newbie

Activity: 28

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Quote from: smoothie on July 13, 2014, 11:30:53 PM

Quote from: FiniteByDesign on July 13, 2014, 02:57:30 PM

Want your crypto represented in a line of physical proofs?

We have had inquiries from a few crypto development teams and/or supporters regarding having a line of proofs created for their crypto and are pleased to announce support of this concept going forward! The way this works is that prepayment for 30% of the inventory would be required and we will cover the remaining upfront investment of time and labor. Once the line is completed and assembled, your 30% of the inventory for which you prepaid will be shipped to you. Finite By Design, LLC will own, list and support the sale of the remaining 70% of the inventory to recoup our portion of the investment and profit.

Example (using made up "FiniteCoin"):

Members of the "FiniteCoin" community decide they want a physical representation of their crypto created and supported by Finite By Design, LLC. The "FiniteCoin" community decides on the quantity of proofs they desire (50) as well as the composition (1 troy ounce of .999 fine silver). Once this is determined, the payment for 30% of the inventory (15 proofs) or $1,500 is made and the production process begins. In about 8 weeks the new line of proofs is completed, the 15 proofs are mailed (to one centralized address for further redistribution) and Finite By Design, LLC lists, supports and advertises the remaining inventory of 35 proofs.

Variations are available depending on quantity of proofs and material of composition - please contact via email for discussion of alternative options.

https://i.imgur.com/EAnWw7c.jpg?1

lol wow what a way to hijack a thread. Epic. Cheesy

Look at all those cool designs you can make.

Alphi

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Activity: 798

Merit: 1000

Quote from: Dadams on July 13, 2014, 11:26:09 PM

Quote from: ofp on July 13, 2014, 11:18:01 PM

Quote from: Dadams on July 13, 2014, 11:07:45 PM

2. Fork the blockchain to block the stolen coins and effectively destroy them.
Vericoin will survive. Hacker has no coins. No threat to system. Coin amount reduced, value goes up.
Mintpal customers lose, this is Mintpal and the hackers fault. Mintpal needs to reimburse.
Mintpal could die.

Sorry, but I believe this option 2 doesn't exist at all.

How can you possibly admit that certain coins are invalid because they were stolen and not return them to their owners? It makes no sense whatsoever. You either ignore the crime or give them back to their owners.

It would be similar to Mintpal losing the keys to their wallet.
They made a mistake. Responsibility belongs to them,
if they admit the hack and there is fear that coins end up with an immoral entity that could harm the infrastructure, this would be a way to protect the infrastructure.

Intuitively it might feel wrong but think about it a bit more.
This option exists because it is a compromise.
In the compromise, people will not be able to call it a chargeback or a bailout hence the reputation of VRC will be spared.
VRC devs feel they have to act out of 51% attack fear. This will negate it.
The community will support this decision if it is either this or option 1, denying hacker the coin or letting the hacker have the coin.
The only people who will feel very strongly against this decision are not VRC holders in general, just those who left a lot of their money on an exchange. This will also be a lesson for them then.

Actually in my perfect world, all 3 options would be created by devs and then community can decide which blockchain to support and build on.

you can only "destroy" the coins by hard coding and blocking the address that holds them..

given that vericoin has its own inbuilt mixing service. I am not sure that all the coins would be stored in the one location for long or are even traceable.

if the coins get mixed and split up into numerous addresses then there is virtually no hope of "destroying" them.
what you would have to do is shut down the entire network and then block each address that has the coins.. you cannot do this while the network is running because the thief can simply keep moving the coins to different addresses

for all intents and purposes the devs probably went with option 3 .. roll back (effectively voiding every transaction that has happened since the hack) because option 2 was simply not practical.

the way block chains work is that you cannot isolate and destroy an individual transaction because each block has a signature which would change if any of the data within the block is tampered with... therefore the only option is to hard fork which means to go back in time to particular block and every block (and every transaction) that happened after that point in time.

adaseb

legendary

Activity: 3808

Merit: 1723

Every 10 minutes there is a development here.

Can someone please sum up what happened today.??

smoothie

legendary

Activity: 2492

Merit: 1491

LEALANA Bitcoin Grim Reaper

Quote from: FiniteByDesign on July 13, 2014, 02:57:30 PM

Want your crypto represented in a line of physical proofs?

We have had inquiries from a few crypto development teams and/or supporters regarding having a line of proofs created for their crypto and are pleased to announce support of this concept going forward! The way this works is that prepayment for 30% of the inventory would be required and we will cover the remaining upfront investment of time and labor. Once the line is completed and assembled, your 30% of the inventory for which you prepaid will be shipped to you. Finite By Design, LLC will own, list and support the sale of the remaining 70% of the inventory to recoup our portion of the investment and profit.

Example (using made up "FiniteCoin"):

Members of the "FiniteCoin" community decide they want a physical representation of their crypto created and supported by Finite By Design, LLC. The "FiniteCoin" community decides on the quantity of proofs they desire (50) as well as the composition (1 troy ounce of .999 fine silver). Once this is determined, the payment for 30% of the inventory (15 proofs) or $1,500 is made and the production process begins. In about 8 weeks the new line of proofs is completed, the 15 proofs are mailed (to one centralized address for further redistribution) and Finite By Design, LLC lists, supports and advertises the remaining inventory of 35 proofs.

Variations are available depending on quantity of proofs and material of composition - please contact via email for discussion of alternative options.

lol wow what a way to hijack a thread. Epic. Cheesy

buy4crypto

sr. member

Activity: 434

Merit: 250

freecrypto.top

Everyone in the VeriCoin community should try to get as much coin on personal storage as possible to prevent future attacks. We have a bright future and people know it.

btminer8

member

Activity: 112

Merit: 10

Quote from: bigc1984 on July 13, 2014, 11:27:06 PM

Quote from: noerc on July 13, 2014, 11:24:31 PM

Was hard to catch up in this thread since I went out to the soccer game. I can understand that having 30% of the coins under the control of a single person is dangerous in a coin-age principle PoS system - especially when this person got them for free. Still I can not support this roll back.

First, as mentioned in a post before, what if someone bought goods for VRC a couple of hours ago? From what I see you can currently take advantage of the fact that the upcoming rollback is not known to everyone and purchase things on the current blockchain which soon will be obsolete. Who is responsible for these losses?

Secondly, I don't see why a full rollback is necessary. You could also just remove these coin outputs through a mandatory client update, effectively reducing the supply of VRC but keeping all transactions that use other coin outputs valid. This way the integrity of the blockchain would remain to some extend, but the coins stolen would be worthless.

Of course, Mintpal would not like this solution, but the community should prefer it and the 51% attack would be avoided.

The fact that someone could have traded a shit load of VRC for other coins and now will get the VRC back AND get to keep the coins they traded for is ridiculous.

Stolen coins has not moved or sold on exchanges.

socal

hero member

Activity: 532

Merit: 500

CryptoTalk.Org - Get Paid for every Post!

wow the retards on here....

OK FIRST OFF:

How the hell has the integrity of VRC been lost? Because we didn't let some fucking hacker have his way with the coin and get away scott free and tens of thousands of dollars richer?! ya, FUCK THAT! I dunno bout you dumbass FUDsters that came here just to talk shit but I like criminal fucksticks NOT profiting off of me or anyone else.

Secondly:

THIS WAS NOT AN EXPLOIT OF VERICOIN OR THE DEVS CODE THIS WAS PURELY A MASSIVE FUCKING SECURITY FUCKUP ON MINTPALS END

There, hope I laid some of you stupid FUDsters to rest with that and if not IDGAF, shut the fuck up and move out cause I'm tired of your constant blatant lies and retarded, inane "opinions"

J9901

sr. member

Activity: 490

Merit: 250

Just woke up and has there been anything official yet?

What will happen to our VRC in Mintpal? I notice that my VRC are still listed but is not being estimated as BTC amount & the market is of course still closed.

Probably not safe to withdraw BTC from MP to wallet now so I'll wait on official word, but would be nice to know whats going to happen to my VRC on MP.

YoyodyneSystems

legendary

Activity: 1386

Merit: 1023

Your idealism blinds you from logic.
Rollback is the most logical and rational choice in this particular case.

If you think that Bitcoin and it's community would not do whatever it could to survive a similar size attack - you are a fool.

-- Please remember this is an experimental technology. There are few rules here.
-- Putting idealism before experimentation will not lead to advancement of Crypto.

bigc1984

hero member

Activity: 658

Merit: 534

Quote from: btminer8 on July 13, 2014, 11:27:01 PM

Quote from: bigc1984 on July 13, 2014, 11:24:46 PM

Quote from: SeDz on July 13, 2014, 11:22:13 PM

Quote from: smoothie on July 13, 2014, 11:18:53 PM

Quote from: Rekatan on July 13, 2014, 02:08:23 PM

This has the potential to ruin the coin or result in it coming back stronger than ever. We still hold the remaining 70% so as long as vericoin holders continue to be so active, we're just fine here. Also keep in mind that exchanges will definitely update to the new wallet, and quite a bit was being held in exchanges, so it's not quite as difficult as it appears to reach 51%.

Of course the exchanges are going to update it is their ass on the line and the devs are literally giving them a hand out by supporting the hard fork idea.

whats your problem ?? you are here saying bullshit for more than 3 hours..
do you want to open ppl eye? hmm no.. you just want ppl to dump so you can buy it cheap

trust me... lol.. no one wants to buy.

I would. If this fork is successful and coins go back to their rightful owners.

You are just a bag holder trying to retain value in a coin that is obviously dead. The rightful owners of the coins are whoever used a security flaw to steal them, it's their reward.

lostlibra

newbie

Activity: 9

Merit: 0

they're all in my wallet. I saw Pat make reference to clearing everything but wallet.dat. I'm guessing that was for linux wallets? simply downloading an updated windows wallet will be fine?

And yeah, knew trading was down. Deciding whether to move everything right away when it comes back up or wait and see what happens.

bigc1984

hero member

Activity: 658

Merit: 534

Quote from: noerc on July 13, 2014, 11:24:31 PM

Was hard to catch up in this thread since I went out to the soccer game. I can understand that having 30% of the coins under the control of a single person is dangerous in a coin-age principle PoS system - especially when this person got them for free. Still I can not support this roll back.

First, as mentioned in a post before, what if someone bought goods for VRC a couple of hours ago? From what I see you can currently take advantage of the fact that the upcoming rollback is not known to everyone and purchase things on the current blockchain which soon will be obsolete. Who is responsible for these losses?

Secondly, I don't see why a full rollback is necessary. You could also just remove these coin outputs through a mandatory client update, effectively reducing the supply of VRC but keeping all transactions that use other coin outputs valid. This way the integrity of the blockchain would remain to some extend, but the coins stolen would be worthless.

Of course, Mintpal would not like this solution, but the community should prefer it and the 51% attack would be avoided.

The fact that someone could have traded a shit load of VRC for other coins and now will get the VRC back AND get to keep the coins they traded for is ridiculous.

btminer8

member

Activity: 112

Merit: 10

Quote from: bigc1984 on July 13, 2014, 11:24:46 PM

Quote from: SeDz on July 13, 2014, 11:22:13 PM

Quote from: smoothie on July 13, 2014, 11:18:53 PM

Quote from: Rekatan on July 13, 2014, 02:08:23 PM

This has the potential to ruin the coin or result in it coming back stronger than ever. We still hold the remaining 70% so as long as vericoin holders continue to be so active, we're just fine here. Also keep in mind that exchanges will definitely update to the new wallet, and quite a bit was being held in exchanges, so it's not quite as difficult as it appears to reach 51%.

Of course the exchanges are going to update it is their ass on the line and the devs are literally giving them a hand out by supporting the hard fork idea.

whats your problem ?? you are here saying bullshit for more than 3 hours..
do you want to open ppl eye? hmm no.. you just want ppl to dump so you can buy it cheap

trust me... lol.. no one wants to buy.

I would. If this fork is successful and coins go back to their rightful owners.

Alphi

hero member

Activity: 798

Merit: 1000

Quote from: lostlibra on July 13, 2014, 11:21:33 PM

so crypto noob here. I had just put a few bucks in to VRC when this all went down. Still deciding whether to ride this out. I don't know enough about the history or the community to have an opinion on this stuff. From what I've read I can see that both sides have a point.

I know everybody's worked up, but a quick noob question.

I'm assuming to even dump what I have, I'd have to update my wallet as I got my coin of mintpal a while before all this went down.

Is updating the wallet as simply downloading the new version from the website? Anything else I need to do? Haven't had to deal with this yet.

it depends on where your coins are...

if they are on mintpal there is nothing you can do but ride it out until trading resumes. (and hope or pray that mintpal restores your balance)
you will not need to update anything to trade coins that are already on the exchange.

if the coins are on your wallet you just need to update to the latest version when it is supplied then find an exchange that is trading the coin.

from what I gather all exchanges have halted trading presently.

Dadams

newbie

Activity: 42

Merit: 0

Quote from: ofp on July 13, 2014, 11:18:01 PM

Quote from: Dadams on July 13, 2014, 11:07:45 PM

2. Fork the blockchain to block the stolen coins and effectively destroy them.
Vericoin will survive. Hacker has no coins. No threat to system. Coin amount reduced, value goes up.
Mintpal customers lose, this is Mintpal and the hackers fault. Mintpal needs to reimburse.
Mintpal could die.

Sorry, but I believe this option 2 doesn't exist at all.

How can you possibly admit that certain coins are invalid because they were stolen and not return them to their owners? It makes no sense whatsoever. You either ignore the crime or give them back to their owners.

It would be similar to Mintpal losing the keys to their wallet.
They made a mistake. Responsibility belongs to them,
if they admit the hack and there is fear that coins end up with an immoral entity that could harm the infrastructure, this would be a way to protect the infrastructure.

Intuitively it might feel wrong but think about it a bit more.
This option exists because it is a compromise.
In the compromise, people will not be able to call it a chargeback or a bailout hence the reputation of VRC will be spared.
VRC devs feel they have to act out of 51% attack fear. This will negate it.
The community will support this decision if it is either this or option 1, denying hacker the coin or letting the hacker have the coin.
The only people who will feel very strongly against this decision are not VRC holders in general, just those who left a lot of their money on an exchange. This will also be a lesson for them then.

Actually in my perfect world, all 3 options would be created by devs and then community can decide which blockchain to support and build on.

FUD_master

newbie

Activity: 28

Merit: 0

Quote from: smoothie on July 13, 2014, 11:22:31 PM

Quote from: blacky90 on July 13, 2014, 02:12:23 PM

Quote from: Rekatan on July 13, 2014, 02:08:23 PM

This has the potential to ruin the coin or result in it coming back stronger than ever. We still hold the remaining 70% so as long as vericoin holders continue to be so active, we're just fine here. Also keep in mind that exchanges will definitely update to the new wallet, and quite a bit was being held in exchanges, so it's not quite as difficult as it appears to reach 51%.

sorry but no one will buy a coin that a person owns 1/3 of their supply

Neither will they buy one where you can just roll back the fuck up by one business.

Physical bitcoin and litecoin, dude? You clearly have a huge misunderstanding of the entire point of cryptos.

Topic: [ANN][VRC] VeriCoin Proof of Stake-Time Currency | New Roadmap Released - page 546. (Read 1356163 times)