Topic: [ANN][XCP] Counterparty - Pioneering Peer-to-Peer Finance - Official Thread - page 438. (Read 1276904 times)

Perfect. thank you both. I really think it is is a positive thing which will serve to increase adoption and usage. I will keep an eye on the developments relating to this.

This is the kind of thing that, if it's to be done, should be implemented at the level of counterpartyd. I'll add the functionality to the backend, and you can just call create_dividend as you normally would (albeit with an extra argument), alright?

Protocol Proposal: Would it be possible to implement a function for "Fees" on Assets as we have "Dividends"?

Use Case: Customer purchases a Diamond Asset on Counterparty: DMNDXXEAA. However, the diamond requires storage/insurance fees to be paid in BTC to a Centralized or Decentralized Diamond Storage service. A payment request (BIP70) or otherwise is sent to the BTC Address to request payment each month for .01 BTC in fees.

• Fees: Paid in BTC
  
• Dividends: Paid in XCP
• Available fees on the buyers address are required for Give=Asset Orders to any other party

Fee set: Fees on assets are set at asset issuance, but can be changed by the issuer. Fees are treated like negative dividends soAn issuer can request fees at anytime as they are able to issue dividends at any time.


Possible Exceptions: User can move fees out of BTC address and the storage will not be paid and DMNDXXEAA will be "destroyed" or decommissioned as unavailable for sale. Also it may not be possible to request fees in Counterparty. This is not how the protocol works, currently. Payments are made in one direction.


Any further thoughts and ideas on this that I may have missed? Does this seem like an appropriate approach to implementing asset-backed coins in Counterparty?

Yes. Great idea. I will add this feature in BoottleXCP:

I just add Phase 3 here : https://forums.counterparty.co/index.php/topic,134.msg932/topicseen.html#msg932

On Testnet:
Minimum == .1

How did the minimum get up that high - this intended?

useless exchange. counterwallet is the hope

I still can't understand why someone involved in, for example a bitcoin mining operation would want to receive XCP?
and how that would be easier for anyone, including  shareholders, and the issuer themself?? to jump through hoops converting things back and forth acquiring xcp and then exchanging back to btc with all the hurdles introduced along the way.

I raised the topic here: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.5384707
(This was a mining operation which was plagued by issues on centralised exchanges shutdown at BitFunder, and now a hack, 'maintenence' at crypto-trade)

the consensus seemed to be: hmm, cool technology/mechanism as a means issueing assets, of keeping a distributed list of shareholders, and allowing people to move stock back and forth without the traditional problem centralised trade platforms can suffer... in fact it is exactly what is needed at this time with all these hacks, closures and rampant fraud behind the scenes but. why on earth would I want to receive xcp tokens.

It should be said on there (and it has been mentioned in this thread before, I think) that dividends can be paid with BTC, just not within the Counterparty protocol (of course). You just get a list of asset-holders and plug that into a regular Bitcoin client. It is, however, significantly cheaper and easier to do all that with XCP---it only ever requires only one small transaction.

somebody knows what happened now in Poloniex?

it keeps on saying "market is frozen" when trying to buy\sell

Are you saying it is simply not possible as per the protocol to be able to issue BTC payment for dividends in some way? I wasn't sure if this was unique to bets or divident payments.  I don't get why you would be debiting btc, would it not be a standard btc payment credited to all shareholder? aren't you simply splitting btc amongst a list of addresses.

Before, I was thinking like this;

we have a Scenario: Hosted mining operation

---------------------------------------------
What we have now with centralised exchanges
---------------------------------------------
1) Let's assume 10,000 investors. mining a steady 10BTC per day.
2) Pool stats are public enabling any investor to see clearly how many BTC are gained.
3) Every Friday, 12:00PM UTC, BTC are transferred to exchange and divided amongst shareholders. process is very simple


---------------------------------------------
Proposed counterparty solution
---------------------------------------------

1) Let's assume 10,000 investors. mining a steady 10BTC per day.
2) Pool stats are public enabling any investor to see clearly how many BTC are gained.
3) Every Friday, 12:00PM UTC, asset issuer transfers BTC to either a centralised exchange or the DEX and places a buy order for the amount of btc required. In this case it will be 70 BTC.
4) he waits for order to be filled the transfer XCP to all shareholders

so we have a few problems. First of all, manipulation. sellers know well that asset issuer *needs* to buy XCP to pay shareholders and will have to resort to filling market order(s) to get it in 1 batch, rather than waiting for his to be filled. and anyone can interfere in the process. That creates problem of not knowing an accurate and stable XCP/BTC exchange rate. shareholders need this to be transparent to know that they are not getting ripped off. (asset issuer needs to demonstrate they spend total amount of dividend on XCP and not pocket some and defraud on exchange rates.

They cannot easily prove the trading records on a centralised exchange so DEX is preffered but you know this will be an unwieldy process.

& liquidity. small dividends, e.g 1btc or so is no problem. what about when things scale up, now we have maybe 100btc in buy order on every friday which shareholders need to receive.

once shareholder receive XCP, what are they do to with it? What if they do not care for XCP? immediately dump on market by many shareholders on same day every week, essentially the shareholder lose money on the trades btc > xcp then back to xcp > btc for what? and now buyers capitalise to stock up on bulks of cheap coin during this 'dump' to capitalise on the next 'pump which will come during the next dividend payment when asset issuers try to acquire XCP, a constant cycle

 I was very excited about the project, still am of course but I just cannot see such a system working in thise use case. maybe I had missed something really obvious?

 I just cannot see how paying BTC dividends would not be infinitely preferable in this case, aside from the fact it is simply not possible

Please see the FAQ: https://counterparty.co/faqs/why-must-dividends-bets-and-betting-fees-be-paid-in-xcp/

If anyone can explain counterparty in super simple terms, I will fund an infographic to be made and edit all the text.

Please add your ideas.

Requirements:

It needs to explain the protocol and its utility.

It needs to be understood by even the most retarded moron.

It needs to explain the benefits to someone who has never done something like this before.

Could someone please outline the reasons why XCP is required for dividend payment?
when we are talking about an asset which mines bitcoin, it just seems counter-intuitive to be expected to convert the earnings into XCP in order to pay shareholders, I can think of many problems this process will create along the way, but none which it solve. Requiring XCP to issue sure, that makes sense but dividend payment I don't get why anyone would use

It seems like a perfect system for distributed issuance with a roadblock in front.

Just saw a chat with RS on MCXNOW, and I don't think we will see XCP there anytime soon, if not ever. I won't even copy / paste what was mentioned, that was brutal.

Troll or not, has anyone heard of any game developers who were looking to make their in game tokens tradeable as a crypto asset?

Mining in game to then sell on a crypto exchange. Hmm.

here you see he work for mastercoin!  --> https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.5274770

maybe trying to sabotage us

Just a terrible waste of time either way... Hopefully a mod can delete those horrors asap, or competitors will just have a quick free laugh and re-use this forever.

I can't tell

Is he trolling
or
being serious

 

Jesus, once again...

I so must be out of touch. No idea what the resemblance was until it was mentioned.