[ANN][XCP] Counterparty - Pioneering Peer-to-Peer Finance - Official Thread - page 458.

Bountyful

newbie

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Quote from: danonthehill on February 22, 2014, 12:02:59 PM

Quote from: 520Bit on February 22, 2014, 11:41:26 AM

Quote from: PhantomPhreak on February 22, 2014, 11:27:07 AM

Quote from: danonthehill on February 22, 2014, 11:11:43 AM

The buyers have lost their BTC, because Counterparty made a centralized decision to roll back the ledger, therefore asymmetrically alter the transactions which previously had occurred. This was done with full knowledge that the people who invested in XPC for the long or the short term would lose their BTC.

We didn't rollback anything. The only thing that we did was close a loophole in the parsing code that allowed for the misidentification of the source of a transaction.

+1 People need to understand what is really going on here.

Perhaps an official press release would help, rather than the aggrieved parties having to trawl through this thread, which consistently refers to the action as a roll-back of the database/ledger.

Perhaps, technically, this is inaccurate, but the fact is in the real world of commerce, transactions occurred and actions were taken; the effect being that the ledger was altered, and those transactions were invalidated.

Yes and that ledger was the Poloniex Ledger. Here these links might help you so you don't have to troll through the thread
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.5251044

Then the Rollback on Poloniex's centralized ledger.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.5272669

supervine

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Activity: 93

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Quote from: pikuchato on February 22, 2014, 12:11:02 PM

I didn't do any transaction just sent my XCP to poloniex and placed a sell which was never fulfilled.

Can anyone please explain to me why my XCP were taken from me? How does this mess even related to me?

I see big whales waving with their solutions to this situation, of course their are it is small change for them anyway,
Like a real bank - when the reach people fuck something up they just take from the poor because they can't say or do anything.

Because Busoni from Poloniex decided to take all the XCPs to him. Even these not involved and even these not stolen. It doesn't look he going to return any. If he would like to, the people was getting their 90% of the coins (he have already) in a few hours after incident. Seems he prefer not to...

jayso043

newbie

Activity: 18

Merit: 0

whats the situation for the XCP buyers on the exchange who brought the dumped XCP. I understand that the XCP protocol wasn't involved in that transfer of XCP, that a private transfer via the exchange. The situation for them will ultimately be decided by poloniex? No changes to the XCP protocol have or could be made for those trades, as they are done outside XCP protocol on the exchange. Although those XCP buyers are unlikely to get their BTC back, I am sure they would be happy with the XCP (I guess this is what the XCP donations is for?), if so I will donate 30 XCP once I am able to transfer out from poloniex .

520Bit

sr. member

Activity: 602

Merit: 252

Quote from: supervine on February 22, 2014, 12:13:37 PM

That were not legal transaction. They did not comply with the protocol guidelines. So no problem to disappear all of them. I don't see this like rollback transactions.
If you're using protocol-not-approved commands, don't be sad they will invalidate in next version.
By the way, bitcoin too (in case of fork) discontinues shortest chain and implements longest - this always guide to transactions canceling. In that case it is legal transactions what didn't get enough confirms.

+1 Totally agree.

supervine

member

Activity: 93

Merit: 10

That were not legal transaction. They did not comply with the protocol guidelines. So no problem to disappear all of them. I don't see this like rollback transactions.
If you're using protocol-not-approved commands, don't be sad they will invalidate in next version.
By the way, bitcoin too (in case of fork) discontinues shortest chain and implements longest - this always guide to transactions canceling. In that case it is legal transactions what didn't get enough confirms.

pikuchato

hero member

Activity: 728

Merit: 500

Activity: yes

I didn't do any transaction just sent my XCP to poloniex and placed a sell which was never fulfilled.

Can anyone please explain to me why my XCP were taken from me? How does this mess even related to me?

I see big whales waving with their solutions to this situation, of course their are it is small change for them anyway,
Like a real bank - when the reach people fuck something up they just take from the poor because they can't say or do anything.

I'm so pissed! I moved to digital currencies just because things like that!
until now it was my bank which was stilling from me, that is the only difference

cityglut

full member

Activity: 216

Merit: 100

Quote from: danonthehill on February 22, 2014, 12:02:59 PM

Quote from: 520Bit on February 22, 2014, 11:41:26 AM

Quote from: PhantomPhreak on February 22, 2014, 11:27:07 AM

Quote from: danonthehill on February 22, 2014, 11:11:43 AM

The buyers have lost their BTC, because Counterparty made a centralized decision to roll back the ledger, therefore asymmetrically alter the transactions which previously had occurred. This was done with full knowledge that the people who invested in XPC for the long or the short term would lose their BTC.

We didn't rollback anything. The only thing that we did was close a loophole in the parsing code that allowed for the misidentification of the source of a transaction.

+1 People need to understand what is really going on here.

Perhaps an official press release would help, rather than the aggrieved parties having to trawl through this thread, which consistently refers to the action as a roll-back of the database/ledger.

Perhaps, technically, this is inaccurate, but the fact is in the real world of commerce, transactions occurred and actions were taken; the effect being that the ledger was altered, and those transactions were invalidated.

The technical distinction is not trivial. Before the bug was fixed, transactions *which should not have been valid* were valid. The alternative you are implicitly proposing is to have left the bug in the protocol.

Also, the Counterparty protocol cannot force BTC payment, likewise it cannot reverse BTC payment. So people did not lose BTC on account of our bug fix.

danonthehill

hero member

Activity: 710

Merit: 500

Quote from: PhantomPhreak on February 22, 2014, 11:30:00 AM

We haven't heard from the attacker in a long time now, and it looks as though he's not going to return any of the funds he stole from Poloniex. We have made our recommendations to busoni as to what he should do, and the decision is up to him.

We have never heard from the attacker. It is Busoni that we haven't heard from for a long time. Poloniex has been frozen for a long time without word. Negative speculation about this has spread to the IRC on several of the other exchanges, seeing as it is effecting other currencies.

danonthehill

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Activity: 710

Merit: 500

Quote from: 520Bit on February 22, 2014, 11:41:26 AM

Quote from: PhantomPhreak on February 22, 2014, 11:27:07 AM

Quote from: danonthehill on February 22, 2014, 11:11:43 AM

The buyers have lost their BTC, because Counterparty made a centralized decision to roll back the ledger, therefore asymmetrically alter the transactions which previously had occurred. This was done with full knowledge that the people who invested in XPC for the long or the short term would lose their BTC.

We didn't rollback anything. The only thing that we did was close a loophole in the parsing code that allowed for the misidentification of the source of a transaction.

+1 People need to understand what is really going on here.

Perhaps an official press release would help, rather than the aggrieved parties having to trawl through this thread, which consistently refers to the action as a roll-back of the database/ledger.

Perhaps, technically, this is inaccurate, but the fact is in the real world of commerce, transactions occurred and actions were taken; the effect being that the ledger was altered, and those transactions were invalidated.

520Bit

sr. member

Activity: 602

Merit: 252

Quote from: Patel on February 22, 2014, 11:38:11 AM

Counterparty still has more of a bright future than any other project in my opinion.

You have a good sense of counterparty. I will continue to support this project and promote it in our community.

cityglut

full member

Activity: 216

Merit: 100

Quote from: danonthehill on February 22, 2014, 11:44:48 AM

Quote from: PhantomPhreak on February 22, 2014, 11:27:07 AM

Quote from: danonthehill on February 22, 2014, 11:11:43 AM

The buyers have lost their BTC, because Counterparty made a centralized decision to roll back the ledger, therefore asymmetrically alter the transactions which previously had occurred. This was done with full knowledge that the people who invested in XPC for the long or the short term would lose their BTC.

We didn't rollback anything. The only thing that we did was close a loophole in the parsing code that allowed for the misidentification of the source of a transaction.

...and the effect was reversed transactions.

You said that we rolled back the ledger. That did not happen. We fixed a bug, the result of which was invalidated transactions.

reader31

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Activity: 221

Merit: 100

Quote from: danonthehill on February 22, 2014, 11:17:27 AM

Quote from: Bellebite2014 on February 22, 2014, 11:10:50 AM

Quote from: reader31 on February 22, 2014, 11:03:09 AM

Quote from: danonthehill on February 22, 2014, 10:30:37 AM

Calling him/her a "Greedy...guinea pig". Are you for real? He/she bought the coins on the open market at what was the current market price.

Some people on this thread have no clue how this is being perceived by others in the crypto community who do not already have a vested interest in XCP, or how it will be perceived by people in the real world for that matter.

People with any kind of long term goal shouldn't/wouldn't be worried about these kinds of glitches. It is expected that early adaptors would have the risk tolerence to look past these issues. This the the risk that we as early adaptors take on for big returns later. Wait for the sleek Gui Counterparty client to kick in, the market will price itself at that point. We will be seeing a propotional increase in value.

Alleluia to this!

Such a sense of community!

I assume you a referring to those who already have XCP or BTC. Not those who have had both their XCP and BTC stolen.

I am afraid you have gold fever. A Gui is not such a boast when the integrity of the community is in question.

All I'm saying is lets stay focused on strengths of the project. The reason I brought up the gui was to focus on the positives things that have been happening in the community. I'm sure anyone is free to believe and say whatever they want (We all have our vested interests). The best answer to all questions is the long term success of this project.

danonthehill

hero member

Activity: 710

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Quote from: PhantomPhreak on February 22, 2014, 11:27:07 AM

Quote from: danonthehill on February 22, 2014, 11:11:43 AM

The buyers have lost their BTC, because Counterparty made a centralized decision to roll back the ledger, therefore asymmetrically alter the transactions which previously had occurred. This was done with full knowledge that the people who invested in XPC for the long or the short term would lose their BTC.

We didn't rollback anything. The only thing that we did was close a loophole in the parsing code that allowed for the misidentification of the source of a transaction.

...and the effect was reversed transactions.

520Bit

sr. member

Activity: 602

Merit: 252

Quote from: PhantomPhreak on February 22, 2014, 11:27:07 AM

Quote from: danonthehill on February 22, 2014, 11:11:43 AM

The buyers have lost their BTC, because Counterparty made a centralized decision to roll back the ledger, therefore asymmetrically alter the transactions which previously had occurred. This was done with full knowledge that the people who invested in XPC for the long or the short term would lose their BTC.

We didn't rollback anything. The only thing that we did was close a loophole in the parsing code that allowed for the misidentification of the source of a transaction.

+1 People need to understand what is really going on here.

Patel

legendary

Activity: 1320

Merit: 1007

Counterparty still has more of a bright future than any other project in my opinion.

BitzMD

sr. member

Activity: 421

Merit: 250

Some people are just too nervous. The devs have done an outstanding job engaging the community. They have responded so fast that the fix was implemented within hours and they continue to build and improve.

Stay positive, this is a young community and as much a I understand this is a new coin that goes beyond many if not all.

PhantomPhreak

sr. member

Activity: 476

Merit: 300

Counterparty Chief Scientist and Co-Founder

We haven't heard from the attacker in a long time now, and it looks as though he's not going to return any of the funds he stole from Poloniex. We have made our recommendations to busoni as to what he should do, and the decision is up to him.

PhantomPhreak

sr. member

Activity: 476

Merit: 300

Counterparty Chief Scientist and Co-Founder

Quote from: danonthehill on February 22, 2014, 11:11:43 AM

The buyers have lost their BTC, because Counterparty made a centralized decision to roll back the ledger, therefore asymmetrically alter the transactions which previously had occurred. This was done with full knowledge that the people who invested in XPC for the long or the short term would lose their BTC.

We didn't rollback anything. The only thing that we did was close a loophole in the parsing code that allowed for the misidentification of the source of a transaction.

danonthehill

hero member

Activity: 710

Merit: 500

Quote from: danonthehill on February 22, 2014, 11:11:43 AM

Quote from: Bellebite2014 on February 22, 2014, 10:35:04 AM

Quote from: danonthehill on February 22, 2014, 10:30:37 AM

Quote from: Bellebite2014 on February 22, 2014, 10:20:47 AM

Quote from: trilli0n on February 22, 2014, 08:21:49 AM

Too bad then that making the protocol robust and secure is a second priority for the core devs.

Are you serious Huh

??

The reported issue has been fixed within HOURS, with tons of extra commits coming in on a daily basis.

Once again, this is WEEKS old code, what did you expect ? You didn't read the disclaimer ? Would you have shared the profits from your cheap coins ? No. So be even happy some people are considering a way to make it up to everyone. Greedy people shouldn't play with daddy's toys...

And please give me a break with all the community messages BS. NO ONE knows about XCP, again, we are weeks old. The only message there, is that a critical flaw for a weeks old code has been fixed within hours. If some people were stupid enough to invest that much and believe that Xmas was also happening in February, I am not even sorry for them. I can just say thank you for being a guinea pig. What is a real poison for the community, is your lack of recognition of the amazing devs that we have. You played, you lost. Man up and let's all move on. Thanks.

Calling him/her a "Greedy...guinea pig". Are you for real? He/she bought the coins on the open market at what was the current market price.

Some people on this thread have no clue how this is being perceived by others in the crypto community who do not already have a vested interest in XCP, or how it will be perceived by people in the real world for that matter.

Yes. I am for real, and I am not in to make a quick buck after a few weeks. People should know better. Who cares to be at such an early stage on a centralized exchange, and then on coinmarketcap whatever ? You wanted it. Then, there you go, you have it. Assume your actions, or don't come here and cry like a french girl. I lost money with the facebook IPO, I will call Wall Street ! Yeah, sure... Again, don't play with daddy's toys if you don't know what you are doing. So yes, greedy guinea pigs.

PS : My XCP will stay on their birth addresses for at least a few months, until everything is under control and properly advertised.

Such machismo...I don't know what it is with you and French girls.

All your comments seem to indicate that you categorize XCP simply as speculative currency i.e. simply an investment vehicle, rather than a functioning transactional currency.

The buyers have lost their BTC, because Counterparty made a centralized decision to roll back the ledger, therefore asymmetrically alter the transactions which previously had occurred. This was done with full knowledge that the people who invested in XCP for the long or the short term would lose their BTC.

This isn't like all other cryptos, as was suggested before. BTC was a response to such centralized decisions, as was laid out in SN's white paper, and was described as being the primary motivation to a decentralized currency. Therefore, this could not have happened with BTC. BTC 2.0 this ain't, it doesn't share the same ethical/philosophical underpinning. I invested in Counterparty because it presented itself as committed to decentralization, but it seems to implement a protocol which allows trades to be reversed at the dev's discretion. Right now it feels, perhaps, more analogous to a Paypal charge-back.

danonthehill

hero member

Activity: 710

Merit: 500

Quote from: Bellebite2014 on February 22, 2014, 11:10:50 AM

Quote from: reader31 on February 22, 2014, 11:03:09 AM

Quote from: danonthehill on February 22, 2014, 10:30:37 AM

Calling him/her a "Greedy...guinea pig". Are you for real? He/she bought the coins on the open market at what was the current market price.

Some people on this thread have no clue how this is being perceived by others in the crypto community who do not already have a vested interest in XCP, or how it will be perceived by people in the real world for that matter.

People with any kind of long term goal shouldn't/wouldn't be worried about these kinds of glitches. It is expected that early adaptors would have the risk tolerence to look past these issues. This the the risk that we as early adaptors take on for big returns later. Wait for the sleek Gui Counterparty client to kick in, the market will price itself at that point. We will be seeing a propotional increase in value.

Alleluia to this!

Such a sense of community!

I assume you a referring to those who already have XCP or BTC. Not those who have had both their XCP and BTC stolen.

I am afraid you have gold fever. A Gui is not such a boast when the integrity of the community is in question.

Topic: [ANN][XCP] Counterparty - Pioneering Peer-to-Peer Finance - Official Thread - page 458. (Read 1276916 times)