[ANN][XCP] Counterparty - Pioneering Peer-to-Peer Finance - Official Thread - page 459.

danonthehill

hero member

Activity: 710

Merit: 500

Quote from: Bellebite2014 on February 22, 2014, 10:35:04 AM

Quote from: danonthehill on February 22, 2014, 10:30:37 AM

Quote from: Bellebite2014 on February 22, 2014, 10:20:47 AM

Quote from: trilli0n on February 22, 2014, 08:21:49 AM

Too bad then that making the protocol robust and secure is a second priority for the core devs.

Are you serious Huh

??

The reported issue has been fixed within HOURS, with tons of extra commits coming in on a daily basis.

Once again, this is WEEKS old code, what did you expect ? You didn't read the disclaimer ? Would you have shared the profits from your cheap coins ? No. So be even happy some people are considering a way to make it up to everyone. Greedy people shouldn't play with daddy's toys...

And please give me a break with all the community messages BS. NO ONE knows about XCP, again, we are weeks old. The only message there, is that a critical flaw for a weeks old code has been fixed within hours. If some people were stupid enough to invest that much and believe that Xmas was also happening in February, I am not even sorry for them. I can just say thank you for being a guinea pig. What is a real poison for the community, is your lack of recognition of the amazing devs that we have. You played, you lost. Man up and let's all move on. Thanks.

Calling him/her a "Greedy...guinea pig". Are you for real? He/she bought the coins on the open market at what was the current market price.

Some people on this thread have no clue how this is being perceived by others in the crypto community who do not already have a vested interest in XCP, or how it will be perceived by people in the real world for that matter.

Yes. I am for real, and I am not in to make a quick buck after a few weeks. People should know better. Who cares to be at such an early stage on a centralized exchange, and then on coinmarketcap whatever ? You wanted it. Then, there you go, you have it. Assume your actions, or don't come here and cry like a french girl. I lost money with the facebook IPO, I will call Wall Street ! Yeah, sure... Again, don't play with daddy's toys if you don't know what you are doing. So yes, greedy guinea pigs.

PS : My XCP will stay on their birth addresses for at least a few months, until everything is under control and properly advertised.

Such machismo...I don't know what it is with you and French girls.

All your comments seem to indicate that you categorize XCP simply as speculative currency i.e. simply an investment vehicle, rather than a functioning transactional currency.

The buyers have lost their BTC, because Counterparty made a centralized decision to roll back the ledger, therefore asymmetrically alter the transactions which previously had occurred. This was done with full knowledge that the people who invested in XPC for the long or the short term would lose their BTC.

This isn't like all other cryptos, as was suggested before. BTC was a response to such centralized decisions, as was laid out in SN's white paper, and was described as being the primary motivation to a decentralized currency. Therefore, this could not have happened with BTC. BTC 2.0 this ain't, it doesn't share the same ethical/philosophical underpinning. I invested in Counterparty because it presented itself as committed to decentralization, but it seems to implement a protocol which allows trades to be reversed at the dev's discretion. Right now it feels, perhaps, more analogous to a Paypal charge-back.

Bellebite2014

newbie

Activity: 56

Merit: 0

Quote from: reader31 on February 22, 2014, 11:03:09 AM

Quote from: danonthehill on February 22, 2014, 10:30:37 AM

Calling him/her a "Greedy...guinea pig". Are you for real? He/she bought the coins on the open market at what was the current market price.

Some people on this thread have no clue how this is being perceived by others in the crypto community who do not already have a vested interest in XCP, or how it will be perceived by people in the real world for that matter.

People with any kind of long term goal shouldn't/wouldn't be worried about these kinds of glitches. It is expected that early adaptors would have the risk tolerence to look past these issues. This the the risk that we as early adaptors take on for big returns later. Wait for the sleek Gui Counterparty client to kick in, the market will price itself at that point. We will be seeing a propotional increase in value.

Alleluia to this!

reader31

full member

Activity: 221

Merit: 100

Quote from: InsanityDev on February 22, 2014, 10:58:01 AM

Quote from: ginko-B on February 21, 2014, 04:57:27 AM

OK, just returned home after a long day and read thru the day's messages.

Here is a summary:

1. The total extent of damage is approx. 7,000 XCP withdrawals + 80 BTC stolen by the hacker.

2. Everyone believes that Busoni is trustworthy and most believe he should be made whole, although a few have pointed out that he is at least partially at fault because he had weak / nonexistent risk management systems.

3. How much money needs to be collected to reverse the damages?

   * Scenario 1 - If the hacker sends the 80BTC back to Busoni then we need to collect 7,000 XCP + an appropriate bounty to the hacker.

   * Scenario 2 - If the hacker does not send the 80BTC back, then the community needs to collect 7,000 XCP + 80 BTC.

Even if the hacker sends the 80 BTC back, it does not seem possible that we can escape without some loss (due to the 7,000 XCP withdrawals), and therefore a community fundraiser / collection / tax / passing of the offering plate / whatever you want to call it is needed and inevitable.

4. There are three mechanisms for doing this being discussed:
   (a) inflate the supply of coins on the protocol - zero people agree; bad precedent, slippery slope, defies sanctity of protocol.
   (b) self-imposed tax - every address taxed 1/[380th]* of coins - several people agree, but a lot disagree.
   (c) donations - largest number of people agree.

Note: the denominator cannot be finalized until we know if it is 7,000 XCP or 7,000 XCP + 80 BTC that need to be gathered.

5. What has not been discussed in a totally honest way is which of the three mechanics will yield the fairest outcome and the best precedent for the future of the Counterparty project?

Well, mechanism (a) is a non-starter.

For mechanism (c), if we could trust that everyone was benevolent, then clearly donations would be the best approach, both because this does not overrule anyone's freewill, and because it has not have any future negative implications on the project.

Notwithstanding, there is the possibility of a massive free-rider problem if we choose mechanism (c) with a few benevolent people sending donations and a horde of greedy people hiding behind the mask of anonymity and attempting to free-ride.

If we end up with a free-rider problem and donations are insufficient, then we won't be able to reverse the damages, as this is quite a large sum of money we need to collect, and it would also be a sad outcome for the project.

Basically, if everyone could trust everyone else to be benevolent, then every wallet owner would donate approx. 1/[380th] of its wealth, which, in essence, is exactly the same as a self-imposed tax.

A few questions to all of you who are suggesting donations as the mechanism of resolution:

Are you really going to donate? Or are you using this rhetoric to hide behind a mask of anonymity and watch as the rest of us bail out Busoni?

And if you are going to donate, would you be upset if other people on this list said they were going to donate but then secretly did not?

And, if we agree that there is a risk of free-rider behavior, wouldn't it be in everyone's best interest and self-preservation to vote for PhantomPhreak to collect 1/[380th] from every XCP wallet in an automated fashion?

For me personally, I am very tired out from all of this and hope it can be resolved quickly so that we can get on with discussing all of the important technical items and plans for building companies on top of Counterparty ...

This episode has been such a massive waste of time for everyone in our community. If you add up all of the time spent trying to unravel this mess far exceeds 7,000 XCP + 80 BTC.

I am the developer of WOLF and have reached out to Tristan (Poloniex) to offer my services in hardening and securing the poloniex exchange today. Hopefully as a community we can all work through this to help a hacked exchange through the process, rather than driving them out of business.

Personally, I have lost over $50k over the past year in exchange hacks, so I'm keen to not see another one go down!

+1 so good to see the community coming together for this

reader31

full member

Activity: 221

Merit: 100

Quote from: danonthehill on February 22, 2014, 10:30:37 AM

Calling him/her a "Greedy...guinea pig". Are you for real? He/she bought the coins on the open market at what was the current market price.

Some people on this thread have no clue how this is being perceived by others in the crypto community who do not already have a vested interest in XCP, or how it will be perceived by people in the real world for that matter.

People with any kind of long term goal shouldn't/wouldn't be worried about these kinds of glitches. It is expected that early adaptors would have the risk tolerence to look past these issues. This the the risk that we as early adaptors take on for big returns later. Wait for the sleek Gui Counterparty client to kick in, the market will price itself at that point. We will be seeing a propotional increase in value.

InsanityDev

full member

Activity: 140

Merit: 100

Quote from: ginko-B on February 21, 2014, 04:57:27 AM

OK, just returned home after a long day and read thru the day's messages.

Here is a summary:

1. The total extent of damage is approx. 7,000 XCP withdrawals + 80 BTC stolen by the hacker.

2. Everyone believes that Busoni is trustworthy and most believe he should be made whole, although a few have pointed out that he is at least partially at fault because he had weak / nonexistent risk management systems.

3. How much money needs to be collected to reverse the damages?

   * Scenario 1 - If the hacker sends the 80BTC back to Busoni then we need to collect 7,000 XCP + an appropriate bounty to the hacker.

   * Scenario 2 - If the hacker does not send the 80BTC back, then the community needs to collect 7,000 XCP + 80 BTC.

Even if the hacker sends the 80 BTC back, it does not seem possible that we can escape without some loss (due to the 7,000 XCP withdrawals), and therefore a community fundraiser / collection / tax / passing of the offering plate / whatever you want to call it is needed and inevitable.

4. There are three mechanisms for doing this being discussed:
   (a) inflate the supply of coins on the protocol - zero people agree; bad precedent, slippery slope, defies sanctity of protocol.
   (b) self-imposed tax - every address taxed 1/[380th]* of coins - several people agree, but a lot disagree.
   (c) donations - largest number of people agree.

Note: the denominator cannot be finalized until we know if it is 7,000 XCP or 7,000 XCP + 80 BTC that need to be gathered.

5. What has not been discussed in a totally honest way is which of the three mechanics will yield the fairest outcome and the best precedent for the future of the Counterparty project?

Well, mechanism (a) is a non-starter.

For mechanism (c), if we could trust that everyone was benevolent, then clearly donations would be the best approach, both because this does not overrule anyone's freewill, and because it has not have any future negative implications on the project.

Notwithstanding, there is the possibility of a massive free-rider problem if we choose mechanism (c) with a few benevolent people sending donations and a horde of greedy people hiding behind the mask of anonymity and attempting to free-ride.

If we end up with a free-rider problem and donations are insufficient, then we won't be able to reverse the damages, as this is quite a large sum of money we need to collect, and it would also be a sad outcome for the project.

Basically, if everyone could trust everyone else to be benevolent, then every wallet owner would donate approx. 1/[380th] of its wealth, which, in essence, is exactly the same as a self-imposed tax.

A few questions to all of you who are suggesting donations as the mechanism of resolution:

Are you really going to donate? Or are you using this rhetoric to hide behind a mask of anonymity and watch as the rest of us bail out Busoni?

And if you are going to donate, would you be upset if other people on this list said they were going to donate but then secretly did not?

And, if we agree that there is a risk of free-rider behavior, wouldn't it be in everyone's best interest and self-preservation to vote for PhantomPhreak to collect 1/[380th] from every XCP wallet in an automated fashion?

For me personally, I am very tired out from all of this and hope it can be resolved quickly so that we can get on with discussing all of the important technical items and plans for building companies on top of Counterparty ...

This episode has been such a massive waste of time for everyone in our community. If you add up all of the time spent trying to unravel this mess far exceeds 7,000 XCP + 80 BTC.

I am the developer of WOLF and have reached out to Tristan (Poloniex) to offer my services in hardening and securing the poloniex exchange today. Hopefully as a community we can all work through this to help a hacked exchange through the process, rather than driving them out of business.

Personally, I have lost over $50k over the past year in exchange hacks, so I'm keen to not see another one go down!

mynxtcoin

newbie

Activity: 20

Merit: 0

Quote from: PhantomPhreak on February 22, 2014, 10:42:40 AM

Quote from: mynxtcoin on February 22, 2014, 10:23:44 AM

Quote from: xnova on February 22, 2014, 01:07:54 AM

Quote from: mynxtcoin on February 22, 2014, 12:47:40 AM

I updated the client from the git repository

now it says that "market" is invalid

C:\Windows\System32>C:\Python32\python.exe c:\counterpartyd_build\run.py market
usage: counterpartyd [-h] [-V] [-v] [--force] [--testnet] [--testcoin]
[--unsigned] [--data-dir DATA_DIR]
[--database-file DATABASE_FILE]
[--config-file CONFIG_FILE] [--log-file LOG_FILE]
[--bitcoind-rpc-connect BITCOIND_RPC_CONNECT]
[--bitcoind-rpc-port BITCOIND_RPC_PORT]
[--bitcoind-rpc-user BITCOIND_RPC_USER]
[--bitcoind-rpc-password BITCOIND_RPC_PASSWORD]
[--rpc-host RPC_HOST] [--rpc-port RPC_PORT]
[--rpc-user RPC_USER] [--rpc-password RPC_PASSWORD]

{server,potentials,send,order,btcpay,issuance,broadcast,bet,dividend,burn,cancel,callback,balances,asset,wallet,pending,reparse,rollback}
...
counterpartyd: error: argument action: invalid choice: 'market' (choose from 'server', 'potentials', 'send', 'order', 'btcpay', 'issuance', 'broadcast', 'bet', 'dividend', 'burn', 'cancel', 'callback', 'balances', 'asset', 'wallet', 'pending', 'reparse', 'rollback')

The market command was removed in an earlier update. For now, it's best to use blockscan in its place, as the GUIs emerge.

Is there any possibility of getting it back? The command line works OK in lieu of a gui.
I'm not interested in using a central exchange, and was surprised when people flocked over to one, when the purpose of XCP is a decentralized exchange.

See this discussion.

thank you

reader31

full member

Activity: 221

Merit: 100

Quote from: trilli0n on February 22, 2014, 08:09:16 AM

Quote from: metraX on February 22, 2014, 07:08:44 AM

But forget obligation, real reason to bail out is because if 80 BTC is lost it will mean massive bad press, it will devastate the project, hang over its head forever. People will never stop talking about it, do you think people can lost $60000 and not fight to get it back? Does not matter who is at fault or what is fair, "only get one chance to make a first impression" and most people will hear this story as their introduction to Counterparty

A bail-out will not make people stop talking about it. It is the second major fuck up at the protocol level within mere weeks after the end of the burn period and it's incredibly damaging. People are losing big sums of money. Redditors are linking to this thread and expect this to be mentioned in any serious discussion about counterparty for the oncoming months.

I do believe the devs did a brilliant job to create a piece of software that is the first to implement a DEx. Decentralization is the way to go and I applaud them for their courage and boldness to Just Do It. But I feel the project is rushed and released when not ready. A longer burn period would have been nice too, just to get more people involved.

It's nice that they want to work with an "auditor" to verify the code for bugs, but that really sounds they are either not willing or able to do a full code review themselves. Instead, they want to rely on some third party for the security of their code base. I think it's not the right way to go, and for me it fails to build any trust.

Launching the first decentralized exchange in the world, is a monumental task and doing it in a true open source culture takes remarkable planning and confidence. Counterparty has all the hallmark of one of the best projects on the crypto world. These kinds of glitches happen from time to time. We have to realize that the community got almost 10X return on investment in their first few weeks, thanks to their work! Its our duty a caommunity to back them up when unexpected issues such as this come up. Complaining about how things could have been done "better" in retrospect is really not being fair to them!

Oh just donated 1% worth of my xcp holding in BTC to busoni's donation address. Go Team!

PhantomPhreak

sr. member

Activity: 476

Merit: 300

Counterparty Chief Scientist and Co-Founder

Quote from: mynxtcoin on February 22, 2014, 10:23:44 AM

Quote from: xnova on February 22, 2014, 01:07:54 AM

Quote from: mynxtcoin on February 22, 2014, 12:47:40 AM

I updated the client from the git repository

now it says that "market" is invalid

C:\Windows\System32>C:\Python32\python.exe c:\counterpartyd_build\run.py market
usage: counterpartyd [-h] [-V] [-v] [--force] [--testnet] [--testcoin]
[--unsigned] [--data-dir DATA_DIR]
[--database-file DATABASE_FILE]
[--config-file CONFIG_FILE] [--log-file LOG_FILE]
[--bitcoind-rpc-connect BITCOIND_RPC_CONNECT]
[--bitcoind-rpc-port BITCOIND_RPC_PORT]
[--bitcoind-rpc-user BITCOIND_RPC_USER]
[--bitcoind-rpc-password BITCOIND_RPC_PASSWORD]
[--rpc-host RPC_HOST] [--rpc-port RPC_PORT]
[--rpc-user RPC_USER] [--rpc-password RPC_PASSWORD]

{server,potentials,send,order,btcpay,issuance,broadcast,bet,dividend,burn,cancel,callback,balances,asset,wallet,pending,reparse,rollback}
...
counterpartyd: error: argument action: invalid choice: 'market' (choose from 'server', 'potentials', 'send', 'order', 'btcpay', 'issuance', 'broadcast', 'bet', 'dividend', 'burn', 'cancel', 'callback', 'balances', 'asset', 'wallet', 'pending', 'reparse', 'rollback')

The market command was removed in an earlier update. For now, it's best to use blockscan in its place, as the GUIs emerge.

Is there any possibility of getting it back? The command line works OK in lieu of a gui.
I'm not interested in using a central exchange, and was surprised when people flocked over to one, when the purpose of XCP is a decentralized exchange.

See this discussion.

Bellebite2014

newbie

Activity: 56

Merit: 0

Quote from: danonthehill on February 22, 2014, 10:30:37 AM

Quote from: Bellebite2014 on February 22, 2014, 10:20:47 AM

Quote from: trilli0n on February 22, 2014, 08:21:49 AM

Too bad then that making the protocol robust and secure is a second priority for the core devs.

Are you serious Huh

??

The reported issue has been fixed within HOURS, with tons of extra commits coming in on a daily basis.

Once again, this is WEEKS old code, what did you expect ? You didn't read the disclaimer ? Would you have shared the profits from your cheap coins ? No. So be even happy some people are considering a way to make it up to everyone. Greedy people shouldn't play with daddy's toys...

And please give me a break with all the community messages BS. NO ONE knows about XCP, again, we are weeks old. The only message there, is that a critical flaw for a weeks old code has been fixed within hours. If some people were stupid enough to invest that much and believe that Xmas was also happening in February, I am not even sorry for them. I can just say thank you for being a guinea pig. What is a real poison for the community, is your lack of recognition of the amazing devs that we have. You played, you lost. Man up and let's all move on. Thanks.

Calling him/her a "Greedy...guinea pig". Are you for real? He/she bought the coins on the open market at what was the current market price.

Some people on this thread have no clue how this is being perceived by others in the crypto community who do not already have a vested interest in XCP, or how it will be perceived by people in the real world for that matter.

Yes. I am for real, and I am not in to make a quick buck after a few weeks. People should know better. Who cares to be at such an early stage on a centralized exchange, and then on coinmarketcap whatever ? You wanted it. Then, there you go, you have it. Assume your actions, or don't come here and cry like a french girl. I lost money with the facebook IPO, I will call Wall Street ! Yeah, sure... Again, don't play with daddy's toys if you don't know what you are doing. So yes, greedy guinea pigs.

PS : My XCP will stay on their birth addresses for at least a few months, until everything is under control and properly advertised.

danonthehill

hero member

Activity: 710

Merit: 500

Quote from: Bellebite2014 on February 22, 2014, 10:20:47 AM

Quote from: trilli0n on February 22, 2014, 08:21:49 AM

Too bad then that making the protocol robust and secure is a second priority for the core devs.

Are you serious Huh

??

The reported issue has been fixed within HOURS, with tons of extra commits coming in on a daily basis.

Once again, this is WEEKS old code, what did you expect ? You didn't read the disclaimer ? Would you have shared the profits from your cheap coins ? No. So be even happy some people are considering a way to make it up to everyone. Greedy people shouldn't play with daddy's toys...

And please give me a break with all the community messages BS. NO ONE knows about XCP, again, we are weeks old. The only message there, is that a critical flaw for a weeks old code has been fixed within hours. If some people were stupid enough to invest that much and believe that Xmas was also happening in February, I am not even sorry for them. I can just say thank you for being a guinea pig. What is a real poison for the community, is your lack of recognition of the amazing devs that we have. You played, you lost. Man up and let's all move on. Thanks.

Calling him/her a "Greedy...guinea pig". Are you for real? He/she bought the coins on the open market at what was the current market price.

Some people on this thread have no clue how this is being perceived by others in the crypto community who do not already have a vested interest in XCP, or how it will be perceived by people in the real world for that matter.

mynxtcoin

newbie

Activity: 20

Merit: 0

Quote from: xnova on February 22, 2014, 01:07:54 AM

Quote from: mynxtcoin on February 22, 2014, 12:47:40 AM

I updated the client from the git repository

now it says that "market" is invalid

C:\Windows\System32>C:\Python32\python.exe c:\counterpartyd_build\run.py market
usage: counterpartyd [-h] [-V] [-v] [--force] [--testnet] [--testcoin]
[--unsigned] [--data-dir DATA_DIR]
[--database-file DATABASE_FILE]
[--config-file CONFIG_FILE] [--log-file LOG_FILE]
[--bitcoind-rpc-connect BITCOIND_RPC_CONNECT]
[--bitcoind-rpc-port BITCOIND_RPC_PORT]
[--bitcoind-rpc-user BITCOIND_RPC_USER]
[--bitcoind-rpc-password BITCOIND_RPC_PASSWORD]
[--rpc-host RPC_HOST] [--rpc-port RPC_PORT]
[--rpc-user RPC_USER] [--rpc-password RPC_PASSWORD]

{server,potentials,send,order,btcpay,issuance,broadcast,bet,dividend,burn,cancel,callback,balances,asset,wallet,pending,reparse,rollback}
...
counterpartyd: error: argument action: invalid choice: 'market' (choose from 'server', 'potentials', 'send', 'order', 'btcpay', 'issuance', 'broadcast', 'bet', 'dividend', 'burn', 'cancel', 'callback', 'balances', 'asset', 'wallet', 'pending', 'reparse', 'rollback')

The market command was removed in an earlier update. For now, it's best to use blockscan in its place, as the GUIs emerge.

Is there any possibility of getting it back? The command line works OK in lieu of a gui.
I'm not interested in using a central exchange, and was surprised when people flocked over to one, when the purpose of XCP is a decentralized exchange.

Bellebite2014

newbie

Activity: 56

Merit: 0

Quote from: trilli0n on February 22, 2014, 08:21:49 AM

Too bad then that making the protocol robust and secure is a second priority for the core devs.

Are you serious Huh

??

The reported issue has been fixed within HOURS, with tons of extra commits coming in on a daily basis.

Once again, this is WEEKS old code, what did you expect ? You didn't read the disclaimer ? Would you have shared the profits from your cheap coins ? No. So be even happy some people are considering a way to make it up to everyone. Greedy people shouldn't play with daddy's toys...

And please give me a break with all the community messages BS. NO ONE knows about XCP, again, we are weeks old. The only message there, is that a critical flaw for a weeks old code has been fixed within hours. If some people were stupid enough to invest that much and believe that Xmas was also happening in February, I am not even sorry for them. I can just say thank you for being a guinea pig. What is a real poison for the community, is your lack of recognition of the amazing devs that we have. You played, you lost. Man up and let's all move on. Thanks.

reader31

full member

Activity: 221

Merit: 100

Quote from: TheMightyX on February 22, 2014, 10:12:03 AM

Quote from: jayesbee on February 22, 2014, 10:04:54 AM

happy to donate some BTC to have this sorted -
I saw that it was approx 0.5% of total value needed from the community - is this correct?
Happily double that

although i did like the idea of a lottery
is that still happening?

I am currently in talks to co-develop one.
Speaking with the developers first.
Will have an update on that later today.

cool...I would buy tickets in the raffle as well.

jayesbee

newbie

Activity: 4

Merit: 0

ok i will wait till i hear an update from you before donating.
but if this isnt going to happen soon, we should find out asap, as in this example, I am currently holding back donation

TheMightyX

sr. member

Activity: 350

Merit: 250

Vires in Numeris

Quote from: jayesbee on February 22, 2014, 10:04:54 AM

happy to donate some BTC to have this sorted -
I saw that it was approx 0.5% of total value needed from the community - is this correct?
Happily double that

although i did like the idea of a lottery
is that still happening?

I am currently in talks to co-develop one.
Speaking with the developers first.
Will have an update on that later today.

jayesbee

newbie

Activity: 4

Merit: 0

happy to donate some BTC to have this sorted -
I saw that it was approx 0.5% of total value needed from the community - is this correct?
Happily double that

although i did like the idea of a lottery
is that still happening?

flayway

full member

Activity: 219

Merit: 102

Quote from: TheMightyX on February 22, 2014, 09:53:21 AM

Quote from: flayway on February 22, 2014, 09:29:28 AM

Quote from: 520Bit on February 22, 2014, 08:55:10 AM

Agree, security should be guaranteed by the community, not individual person/team. Like bitcoins, it becomes strong because of the power of the whole of the community no matter how MTGOX publish whatever useless announcement. MTGOX is dying but bitcoins are alive forever.

Counterparty community looks like big joke now. Few day ago we talk about 1500+ burners, few 15btc burner, few +6btc burners and lot of 1-2btc burners and still we cant find even 10 people who donate 10 coins Huh

How this all can think we can run in future "bug bounty" program if we cant now donate few coins? We discuss couple of day ago how we have good situation vs mastercoin, ethereum and other same type coins and now we are giving they free time take full lead what we cant beat anymore? Instead you donate few coins you want own bags of shit later? You have 10x profit earlier, maybe now 5-10x. Are you waiting devs who have make really hard work so far and want continue this project donating all or what you are waiting? We must give strong message to outside of community and also for devs that we are here together and they make good work. We dont have time to make lottery and i believe there still not join anyone, if we want we can make together one big lottery where everyone win, if we now donate and get exchange back and new investors come in instead become joke and coin who everyone warning to join.

Yes this is decentralized coin but we need solve this problem still with centralized exchange

I hope everyone start now take part to this donations and we can solve and continue looking green candles in polo..

This may be because many feel this isn't the right course of action.
Just like many feel the auto or bank bailouts weren't the right course of action for the American economy.
I think this has less to do with people being stingy and more to do with not finding a solution that appeals to everyone.
Yes the XCP protocol had a bug, but the problem should have been confined to Poloniex servers and not allowed to leave the site.

I am in favor of increased trading fees.
Assuming a 100 BTC volume and a 2.5% fee that is 32.8 days until he can pay everyone back their BTC.
Keep in mind that is NOT including all the fees collected for other coins.
We can assume that they will make the BTC in half the time using fees collected from other currencies.
Poloniex is running a business, not a charity.
If a bank allowed its clients money to be stolen, would you then donate to that bank?
Obviously this is not such a black and white situation. But the example does go to show that Poloniex is still somewhat to blame.

Asking the community to cover 100% of the losses with no responsibility on Poloniex part is unacceptable.

Yes i know and thats why i have donate to security bounty what we need in future but from that can take part to this also.. But maybe if we can collect this xcp back and busoni will handle btc's back with fees or someway.. And anyway anyone not have ask to cover 100%, we can try cover even little, other way we make busoni broken.

TheMightyX

sr. member

Activity: 350

Merit: 250

Vires in Numeris

Quote from: flayway on February 22, 2014, 09:29:28 AM

Quote from: 520Bit on February 22, 2014, 08:55:10 AM

Agree, security should be guaranteed by the community, not individual person/team. Like bitcoins, it becomes strong because of the power of the whole of the community no matter how MTGOX publish whatever useless announcement. MTGOX is dying but bitcoins are alive forever.

Counterparty community looks like big joke now. Few day ago we talk about 1500+ burners, few 15btc burner, few +6btc burners and lot of 1-2btc burners and still we cant find even 10 people who donate 10 coins Huh

How this all can think we can run in future "bug bounty" program if we cant now donate few coins? We discuss couple of day ago how we have good situation vs mastercoin, ethereum and other same type coins and now we are giving they free time take full lead what we cant beat anymore? Instead you donate few coins you want own bags of shit later? You have 10x profit earlier, maybe now 5-10x. Are you waiting devs who have make really hard work so far and want continue this project donating all or what you are waiting? We must give strong message to outside of community and also for devs that we are here together and they make good work. We dont have time to make lottery and i believe there still not join anyone, if we want we can make together one big lottery where everyone win, if we now donate and get exchange back and new investors come in instead become joke and coin who everyone warning to join.

Yes this is decentralized coin but we need solve this problem still with centralized exchange

I hope everyone start now take part to this donations and we can solve and continue looking green candles in polo..

This may be because many feel this isn't the right course of action.
Just like many feel the auto or bank bailouts weren't the right course of action for the American economy.
I think this has less to do with people being stingy and more to do with not finding a solution that appeals to everyone.
Yes the XCP protocol had a bug, but the problem should have been confined to Poloniex servers and not allowed to leave the site.

I am in favor of increased trading fees.
Assuming a 100 BTC volume and a 2.5% fee that is 32.8 days until he can pay everyone back their BTC.
Keep in mind that is NOT including all the fees collected for other coins.
We can assume that they will make the BTC in half the time using fees collected from other currencies.
Poloniex is running a business, not a charity.
If a bank allowed its clients money to be stolen, would you then donate to that bank?
Obviously this is not such a black and white situation. But the example does go to show that Poloniex is still somewhat to blame.

Quote from: busoni on February 21, 2014, 07:39:14 PM

In other news, I have just finished implementing a security feature that immediately freezes any currency with a discrepancy in the wallet balance vs. exchange balance. This would have prevented the dump from ever happening.

Asking the community to cover 100% of the losses with no responsibility on Poloniex part is unacceptable.

qtgwith

hero member

Activity: 602

Merit: 500

Quote from: flayway on February 22, 2014, 09:29:28 AM

Quote from: 520Bit on February 22, 2014, 08:55:10 AM

Agree, security should be guaranteed by the community, not individual person/team. Like bitcoins, it becomes strong because of the power of the whole of the community no matter how MTGOX publish whatever useless announcement. MTGOX is dying but bitcoins are alive forever.

Counterparty community looks like big joke now. Few day ago we talk about 1500+ burners, few 15btc burner, few +6btc burners and lot of 1-2btc burners and still we cant find even 10 people who donate 10 coins Huh

How this all can think we can run in future "bug bounty" program if we cant now donate few coins? We discuss couple of day ago how we have good situation vs mastercoin, ethereum and other same type coins and now we are giving they free time take full lead what we cant beat anymore? Instead you donate few coins you want own bags of shit later? You have 10x profit earlier, maybe now 5-10x. Are you waiting devs who have make really hard work so far and want continue this project donating all or what you are waiting? We must give strong message to outside of community and also for devs that we are here together and they make good work. We dont have time to make lottery and i believe there still not join anyone, if we want we can make together one big lottery where everyone win, if we now donate and get exchange back and new investors come in instead become joke and coin who everyone warning to join.

Yes this is decentralized coin but we need solve this problem still with centralized exchange

I hope everyone start now take part to this donations and we can solve and continue looking green candles in polo..

I have donated some BTC today. All member in Counterparty community should act now. Donate! Donate!

TheMightyX

sr. member

Activity: 350

Merit: 250

Vires in Numeris

Quote from: trilli0n on February 22, 2014, 08:09:16 AM

Quote from: metraX on February 22, 2014, 07:08:44 AM

But forget obligation, real reason to bail out is because if 80 BTC is lost it will mean massive bad press, it will devastate the project, hang over its head forever. People will never stop talking about it, do you think people can lost $60000 and not fight to get it back? Does not matter who is at fault or what is fair, "only get one chance to make a first impression" and most people will hear this story as their introduction to Counterparty

A bail-out will not make people stop talking about it. It is the second major fuck up at the protocol level within mere weeks after the end of the burn period and it's incredibly damaging. People are losing big sums of money. Redditors are linking to this thread and expect this to be mentioned in any serious discussion about counterparty for the oncoming months.

I do believe the devs did a brilliant job to create a piece of software that is the first to implement a DEx. Decentralization is the way to go and I applaud them for their courage and boldness to Just Do It. But I feel the project is rushed and released when not ready. A longer burn period would have been nice too, just to get more people involved.

It's nice that they want to work with an "auditor" to verify the code for bugs, but that really sounds they are either not willing or able to do a full code review themselves. Instead, they want to rely on some third party for the security of their code base. I think it's not the right way to go, and for me it fails to build any trust.

It's true a bail-out will not make people stop talking about it.
I don't think this is the right course of action.

I'm not sure how one account was allowed to withdraw 80 BTC in one lump sum. Any withdrawal over 10 btc should need to be reviewed by an admin. If you look at any of the large BTC exchanges this is how they operate. So yes, its unfortunate that Poloniex was duped, but not to have any security measures in place to protect ANY of the currencies on the exchange was foolhardy.

Having a third party audit your code is standard practice.
After looking at something day in and day out for months your brain becomes accustomed to it and may not notice what other new eyes will see right away.
This is common sense. Not just in the programming world but the entire technical and development world. This project does not seem rushed to me.

edit: to reiterate; the developers are under no timeline or schedule. They owe nothing to you or I and release only when they feel something is complete.
They are certainly not releasing things half-asses because their boss is breathing down their necks. They have no incentive to release things in a rush.

Topic: [ANN][XCP] Counterparty - Pioneering Peer-to-Peer Finance - Official Thread - page 459. (Read 1276916 times)