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Topic: [ANN][XCP] Counterparty - Pioneering Peer-to-Peer Finance - Official Thread - page 471. (Read 1276923 times)

sr. member
Activity: 262
Merit: 250

The parties who "benefited":
- People who withdrew XCP that they bought before closing (this is the 7000)
- The hacker, who is up +80BTC

The parties who were unaffected
- People who did not have XCP on poloniex

Ideally, people who withdrew would deposit funds back into the exchange, the BTC would be redeposited, and all trades reversed, which would result in no one gaining or losing anything. However as this is not actually practical, the exchange is currently soliciting donations to try to cover the remainder.

That's the current fund situation right now.

Thanks for the good assessment of what happened at the exchange.

I'm encouraging those who benefited from the low XCP prices and withdrew the XCP to offer to return it to the exchange.

It might have looked like an fortuitous turn of events in your favor. However, you now know that it was caused by a bug in the protocol. It is the right thing to return what was not really yours to begin with.

If you decide to keep your windfall, know that you are benefiting from the misfortune of someone else in the community.

If more than 70% of the shortfall of XCP is returned to the exchange, I will personally donate 100% of all of the XCP that I would have lost (ie all of the buy orders which filled during the dump) to a bounty or donation fund for XCP.

Edit: I decided to lower the barrier from 80% to 70%
full member
Activity: 224
Merit: 100
CabTrader v2 | crypto-folio.com
OK, just returned home after a long day and read thru the day's messages.

Here is a summary:

1. The total extent of damage is approx. 7,000 XCP withdrawals + 80 BTC stolen by the hacker.

2. Everyone believes that Busoni is trustworthy and most believe he should be made whole, although a few have pointed out that he is at least partially at fault because he had weak / nonexistent risk management systems.

3. How much money needs to be collected to reverse the damages?

     * Scenario 1 - If the hacker sends the 80BTC back to Busoni then we need to collect 7,000 XCP + an appropriate bounty to the hacker.

     * Scenario 2 - If the hacker does not send the 80BTC back, then the community needs to collect 7,000 XCP + 80 BTC.

Even if the hacker sends the 80 BTC back, it does not seem possible that we can escape without some loss (due to the 7,000 XCP withdrawals), and therefore a community fundraiser / collection / tax / passing of the offering plate / whatever you want to call it is needed and inevitable.

4. There are three mechanisms for doing this being discussed:
      (a) inflate the supply of coins on the protocol - zero people agree; bad precedent, slippery slope, defies sanctity of protocol.
      (b) self-imposed tax - every address taxed 1/[380th]* of coins - several people agree, but a lot disagree.
      (c) donations - largest number of people agree.

Note: the denominator cannot be finalized until we know if it is 7,000 XCP or 7,000 XCP + 80 BTC that need to be gathered.


5. What has not been discussed in a totally honest way is which of the three mechanics will yield the fairest outcome and the best precedent for the future of the Counterparty project?

Well, mechanism (a) is a non-starter.  

For mechanism (c), if we could trust that everyone was benevolent, then clearly donations would be the best approach, both because this does not overrule anyone's freewill, and because it has not have any future negative implications on the project.

Notwithstanding, there is the possibility of a massive free-rider problem if we choose mechanism (c) with a few benevolent people sending donations and a horde of greedy people hiding behind the mask of anonymity and attempting to free-ride.

If we end up with a free-rider problem and donations are insufficient, then we won't be able to reverse the damages, as this is quite a large sum of money we need to collect, and it would also be a sad outcome for the project.

Basically, if everyone could trust everyone else to be benevolent, then every wallet owner would donate approx. 1/[380th] of its wealth, which, in essence, is exactly the same as a self-imposed tax.

A few questions to all of you who are suggesting donations as the mechanism of resolution:

Are you really going to donate?  Or are you using this rhetoric to hide behind a mask of anonymity and watch as the rest of us bail out Busoni?  

And if you are going to donate, would you be upset if other people on this list said they were going to donate but then secretly did not?

And, if we agree that there is a risk of free-rider behavior, wouldn't it be in everyone's best interest and self-preservation to vote for PhantomPhreak to collect 1/[380th] from every XCP wallet in an automated fashion?  

For me personally, I am very tired out from all of this and hope it can be resolved quickly so that we can get on with discussing all of the important technical items and plans for building companies on top of Counterparty ...

This episode has been such a massive waste of time for everyone in our community.  If you add up all of the time spent trying to unravel this mess far exceeds 7,000 XCP + 80 BTC.


I believe inevitably the freerider problem pales in comparison to a tax. There are going to be freeriders. Oh well. These people don't realize the severity of the issue. We should start another thread, where we can document who is donating and how much and make it public, so that there is no question who has donated. All we need is 70 people to donate 100 xcp... or 140 to donate 50..

I'm very eager to hear XNOVA, PHANTOMPHREAK, and BUSONI opinion on this. They have been earily silent on the matter.



member
Activity: 82
Merit: 10
OK, just returned home after a long day and read thru the day's messages.

Here is a summary:

1. The total extent of damage is approx. 7,000 XCP withdrawals + 80 BTC stolen by the hacker.

2. Everyone believes that Busoni is trustworthy and most believe he should be made whole, although a few have pointed out that he is at least partially at fault because he had weak / nonexistent risk management systems.

3. How much money needs to be collected to reverse the damages?

     * Scenario 1 - If the hacker sends the 80BTC back to Busoni then we need to collect 7,000 XCP + an appropriate bounty to the hacker.

     * Scenario 2 - If the hacker does not send the 80BTC back, then the community needs to collect 7,000 XCP + 80 BTC.

Even if the hacker sends the 80 BTC back, it does not seem possible that we can escape without some loss (due to the 7,000 XCP withdrawals), and therefore a community fundraiser / collection / tax / passing of the offering plate / whatever you want to call it is needed and inevitable.

4. There are three mechanisms for doing this being discussed:
      (a) inflate the supply of coins on the protocol - zero people agree; bad precedent, slippery slope, defies sanctity of protocol.
      (b) self-imposed tax - every address taxed 1/[380th]* of coins - several people agree, but a lot disagree.
      (c) donations - largest number of people agree.

Note: the denominator cannot be finalized until we know if it is 7,000 XCP or 7,000 XCP + 80 BTC that need to be gathered.


5. What has not been discussed in a totally honest way is which of the three mechanics will yield the fairest outcome and the best precedent for the future of the Counterparty project?

Well, mechanism (a) is a non-starter.  

For mechanism (c), if we could trust that everyone was benevolent, then clearly donations would be the best approach, both because this does not overrule anyone's freewill, and because it has not have any future negative implications on the project.

Notwithstanding, there is the possibility of a massive free-rider problem if we choose mechanism (c) with a few benevolent people sending donations and a horde of greedy people hiding behind the mask of anonymity and attempting to free-ride.

If we end up with a free-rider problem and donations are insufficient, then we won't be able to reverse the damages, as this is quite a large sum of money we need to collect, and it would also be a sad outcome for the project.

Basically, if everyone could trust everyone else to be benevolent, then every wallet owner would donate approx. 1/[380th] of its wealth, which, in essence, is exactly the same as a self-imposed tax.

A few questions to all of you who are suggesting donations as the mechanism of resolution:

Are you really going to donate?  Or are you using this rhetoric to hide behind a mask of anonymity and watch as the rest of us bail out Busoni?  

And if you are going to donate, would you be upset if other people on this list said they were going to donate but then secretly did not?

And, if we agree that there is a risk of free-rider behavior, wouldn't it be in everyone's best interest and self-preservation to vote for PhantomPhreak to collect 1/[380th] from every XCP wallet in an automated fashion?  

For me personally, I am very tired out from all of this and hope it can be resolved quickly so that we can get on with discussing all of the important technical items and plans for building companies on top of Counterparty ...

This episode has been such a massive waste of time for everyone in our community.  If you add up all of the time spent trying to unravel this mess far exceeds 7,000 XCP + 80 BTC.





full member
Activity: 210
Merit: 100
There is no need to push anything anywhere. let them finish the update  and get it back on poloniex than things will progress naturally with the client etc.

patience is virtue
sr. member
Activity: 462
Merit: 250
I'd rather wait weeks for poloniex to add it back again then push XCP onto coinedup.  Coinedup has always had a reputation as a lazy, shoddy, 3rd rate exchange.

Sure, you shouldn't judge a book by it's cover, but if I were an investor looking to purchase XCP I would instantly take it less seriously when I find out it only trades on some ugly, slow, bland turd of a website.

If anything I'd push to get XCP onto C-CEX.com or mintpal.com, but after the shenanigans at Poloniex, I suspect no exchange is gonna wanna list it til it gets back on Poloniex and proves itself for a little while.
full member
Activity: 224
Merit: 100
CabTrader v2 | crypto-folio.com
When will XCP be back on Poloniex?

Not soon enough.  What information does coinedup.com need to get xcp added?
legendary
Activity: 1120
Merit: 1000
When will XCP be back on Poloniex?
member
Activity: 86
Merit: 10
Maybe you didn't hit refresh ? Anyone confirming this ?

Definitely NOT. I opened poloniex in new tab.

For your information it happened while busoni was online.
newbie
Activity: 44
Merit: 0
Any progress on poloniex?


Best Regards
full member
Activity: 224
Merit: 100
CabTrader v2 | crypto-folio.com
Maybe you didn't hit refresh ? Anyone confirming this ?
member
Activity: 86
Merit: 10
Busoni seems to be pissed off. Counterparty disappeared from poloniex again  Undecided
I was just about to trade..

I have been kept an eye on poloniex, and didn't see XCP back.

yeah what is he referring to ?

It appears for a bit or it was a glitch?? Nobody noticed?
Never mind. I hope that xnova and phantomphreak will find solution to these missing coins and xcp will be back on poloniex soon.

Edit: it was about two hours ago and there were selling orders at 0.013 and buying at 0.009. In the meantime Ive made deposit of btc's and when I switched back to trading site, the xcp already gone from poloniex
legendary
Activity: 876
Merit: 1000
Etherscan.io
How long does this take ?

Code:
C:\Users\chris>counterpartyd server

C:\Users\chris>echo off
Status: RESTART
Block: 278280
Block: 278281
Block: 278282
Block: 278283
Block: 278284
Block: 278285
Block: 278286
Block: 278287
Block: 278288
Block: 278289
Block: 278290
Block: 278291
Block: 278292
Block: 278293
Block: 278294
Block: 278295
Block: 278296
Block: 278297
Block: 278298
Block: 278299

Quite a while.. around 10-12 hours for me
full member
Activity: 224
Merit: 100
CabTrader v2 | crypto-folio.com
If anyone feels like helping me out. I'm completely out of bitcoin as every millibit went into XCP. But now I need Bitcoin for transactions fees... -____-
If you can send me like $5 worth of bitcoin I'll gladly send you 2 XCP

Code:
12aXShqo2UiALhYTejR72ZdeiSL7ThEkpc
Sent, I will PM you my address.

Your awesome thank you!
full member
Activity: 238
Merit: 100
If anyone feels like helping me out. I'm completely out of bitcoin as every millibit went into XCP. But now I need Bitcoin for transactions fees... -____-
If you can send me like $5 worth of bitcoin I'll gladly send you 2 XCP

Code:
12aXShqo2UiALhYTejR72ZdeiSL7ThEkpc
Sent, I will PM you my address.
full member
Activity: 224
Merit: 100
CabTrader v2 | crypto-folio.com
How long does this take ?

Code:
C:\Users\chris>counterpartyd server

C:\Users\chris>echo off
Status: RESTART
Block: 278280
Block: 278281
Block: 278282
Block: 278283
Block: 278284
Block: 278285
Block: 278286
Block: 278287
Block: 278288
Block: 278289
Block: 278290
Block: 278291
Block: 278292
Block: 278293
Block: 278294
Block: 278295
Block: 278296
Block: 278297
Block: 278298
Block: 278299
full member
Activity: 224
Merit: 100
CabTrader v2 | crypto-folio.com
If anyone feels like helping me out. I'm completely out of bitcoin as every millibit went into XCP. But now I need Bitcoin for transactions fees... -____-
If you can send me like $5 worth of bitcoin I'll gladly send you 2 XCP

Code:
12aXShqo2UiALhYTejR72ZdeiSL7ThEkpc

EDIT: A kind member has sent 0.008 BTC Thank you! When I get this counterpartyd reindexed you'll be seeing a couple xcp. Thanks again
full member
Activity: 224
Merit: 100
CabTrader v2 | crypto-folio.com
Busoni seems to be pissed off. Counterparty disappeared from poloniex again  Undecided
I was just about to trade..

I have been kept an eye on poloniex, and didn't see XCP back.

yeah what is he referring to ?
newbie
Activity: 44
Merit: 0
Busoni seems to be pissed off. Counterparty disappeared from poloniex again  Undecided
I was just about to trade..

I have been kept an eye on poloniex, and didn't see XCP back.
member
Activity: 86
Merit: 10
Busoni seems to be pissed off. Counterparty disappeared from poloniex again  Undecided
I was just about to trade..
hero member
Activity: 602
Merit: 500
Community members:

There is a lot of premature talk here. lets wait for the dust to settle and than see the most fair way to proceed.

The good news is that it 1) happened early 2) only 7000 xcp compared to 35000 are now in doubt 3) the protocol should be much stronger when all is said and done.

All talks about taxing and inflation defeat the purpose of cryptocurrency. this is not the way. the way is to set a bounty based on donations and good will. I am sure that those that just bought for 0.002 will also participate. this way most damages will get paid back if not more.

As to Poloniex: the guy is honest and is attempting to solve the issue. when all said and done he will have stronger coin on his platform. I for one feel more comfortable using this exchange because of who is behind it. look at the way he is taking care of it even if he also learned a lesson. this is part of business. we should let the dust settle and keep going.

This is still the first ever dex. a world's first. the dev's are great. the concept is great.  let them work and conclude the issue and then we'll see what's next


Donation is the only best way to solve the problem.
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