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Topic: [ANN][XCP] Counterparty - Pioneering Peer-to-Peer Finance - Official Thread - page 475. (Read 1276928 times)

legendary
Activity: 1708
Merit: 1000
Reality is stranger than fiction
EBIT: I think you're right, that you enter the fee in % when placing the order, but it looks like blockscan converts it to a BTC amount.

The command-line interface takes a fraction (.01 = 1%), and the protocol uses a fixed quantity of BTC.

Apologies if this is obvious, but why aren’t the orders previously discussed being matched on the DEX? Sellers’ fee required is lower than the buyer’s fee provided.

@devs: is something malfunctioning?
legendary
Activity: 1120
Merit: 1000
Any word for Poloniex whether they will continue to trade BTC/XCP?

xnova said earlier they are all working together to sort things out. I'm sure we'll here from Busoni as soon as possible.
newbie
Activity: 34
Merit: 0
Any word for Poloniex whether they will continue to trade BTC/XCP?
newbie
Activity: 37
Merit: 0
Looking forward to more people participating in project of XCP  XCP will be better
sr. member
Activity: 476
Merit: 300
Counterparty Chief Scientist and Co-Founder
EBIT: I think you're right, that you enter the fee in % when placing the order, but it looks like blockscan converts it to a BTC amount.

The command-line interface takes a fraction (.01 = 1%), and the protocol uses a fixed quantity of BTC.
legendary
Activity: 1120
Merit: 1000
Quote

What's this we shit?



This "we shit" refers to "we" as in "the Counterparty community." Or did you think you were the only one who mattered?
newbie
Activity: 56
Merit: 0
... I wonder if it is technically realistic?  How would this solution actually be implemented?  

Hard code into the next version, recognizing an address that PhantomPhreak controls as having a balance of 35,000 XCP on the first block. Then, PhantomPhreak sends this to busoni.  I would think it could be a 1 liner, not too hard?

I would hope that, if this is done, we can also set a date for when this type of fix is permanently "off limits". Maybe 6-12 months from now. In other words, a date where we all agree it is no longer Alpha software, but Beta.

And secondly, raise a pool of funds (controlled by PhantomPhreak?) to have a security audit done by an outside party, before we declare the transition from Alpha to Beta.  I would donate to this and I think many others would too.

That's completely defeating the purpose of PoB.


No it doesn't. Burning again doesn't defeat the purpose of burning, it just reestablishes value.

 

Burning again undermines the entire protocol, because it creates the possibility of unlimited inflation. We could just reinitiate a burn whenever people feel like it.

What's this we shit?

First of all, that already could happen. It doesn't undermine anything regarding the protocol past the point that the protocol is ALPHA and changes / reestablishing the burn amount is part of CHANGING THE PROTOCOL TO MAKE IT BETTER.

Pretty simple. So no, it doesn't "create" any more or less possibility of unlimited inflation than there already is. Stating "the burn is final" is as rigid a rule as saying "we will only burn in alpha when doublespend vulnerabilities are found to have been implemented" or as stating "haha we'll burn whenever we feel like it."



It creates minor inflation up front in response to a critical bug that was only revealed by people having enough invested in it to make it worthwhile to abuse.

Congrats. Hope the grey hat hacker gets enough bounty to make giving up more coin worthwhile. Laff.

How about just consider the plunder the bounty? Oh that would be too obvious, eh
newbie
Activity: 56
Merit: 0
... I wonder if it is technically realistic?  How would this solution actually be implemented?  

Hard code into the next version, recognizing an address that PhantomPhreak controls as having a balance of 35,000 XCP on the first block. Then, PhantomPhreak sends this to busoni.  I would think it could be a 1 liner, not too hard?

I would hope that, if this is done, we can also set a date for when this type of fix is permanently "off limits". Maybe 6-12 months from now. In other words, a date where we all agree it is no longer Alpha software, but Beta.

And secondly, raise a pool of funds (controlled by PhantomPhreak?) to have a security audit done by an outside party, before we declare the transition from Alpha to Beta.  I would donate to this and I think many others would too.

this is the most retarded thing i have read today, another bailout ... call Obama and Bernanke


What a coincidence, your post is the most retarded thing I have read today! It clearly isn't a bailout, it is more aligned with FDIC when after a bank gets robbed the accounts are replenished.

Bottomline is that without it being that worthy of a target the vulnerability would likely remain so until that lucrative. You're also setting a pattern (I've read a lot of negative precedent setting issues in this thread) that it's fine to just wait until something catastrophic occurs and fuck you to the people who were required to invest / interact collectively to squeak out the issue.


Finally, it is rather convenient that this "benevolent hacker" proved their issue in such an amazingly robust manner. why not benevolently doublespend the minimum amount?

The unbelievable aspect - and why many doubted the initial reports - were 100% due to the scope and scale of the issue and how non-publicized it was. You're going to not directly contact the public / the devs to reveal the issue? But someone running an exchange when their involvement is rather tangential? LOL.

The idea that most people don't give a shit and shouldn't be "punished" for equality due to early adopters building the interest to the point that it is a worthy target deserves the slowest clap from the smallest animated gif

Who cares because everything's working as intended, and disclaimer text means tough shit, right?

hero member
Activity: 689
Merit: 507
Congrats Devs for all your outstanding work
member
Activity: 378
Merit: 10
Blockchain Just Entered The Real World
Hi everybody!

I bought 402 XCP two days ago on poloniex... for 4BTC... Do you think I will see them again?  Cry Cry Cry
full member
Activity: 238
Merit: 100
There is an order on the DEX to buy at 0.009 and two order to sell at the same price. Any idea why these haven't been matched? Thanks!
Check the fee required, for the sell order.
sr. member
Activity: 390
Merit: 254
Counterparty Developer
A quick update: We are currently working through things with busoni and the anonymous hacker regarding the security incident. We have essentially extended a reward as well as a security developer-type position to this individual contingent upon us fully settling this issue and the funds being fully returned.

Phantom is currently implementing even more strict transaction validity checking rules as we speak (to among other things, guard against a specific potential security issue in bitcoind itself that the hacker has identified). We are also working on an intermediate transaction database (to lessen the need to do a full rebuild off of bitcoind for all but the most major updates). That all being said, there will most likely be another update out shortly that requires a rebuild, but we hope that this will be the last for awhile.

We have also created two donation addresses:

Bug bounty program: 14Tf35AovvRVURzd623q5i9kry2EW8WzyL
General donations: 19U6MmLLumsqxXSBMB5FgYXbezgXYC6Gpe

We will be announcing the terms of a bug bounty program later today. If you are interested in helping pay for bounties for bugs found, please donate BTC or XCP to the bounty address above.

General donations (to be used with the project at the Counterparty team's discretion) can be sent to the General donations address.

Again, thank you all for your patience on this matter as we drive it to resolution.


Have the bitcoin devs been notified of the security issue in bitcoind?

We are not saying it is a genuine security issue to bitcoind itself. However, it is a less-than-ideal design consideration with a specific aspect of the protocol that has possible security implications for Counterparty and other Bitcoin-based metacoins. We will soon have a full release out that addresses any potential or theoretical attack vectors that this design choice may expose. Due to the nature of the problem, that's all I can say at the moment regarding this issue.
legendary
Activity: 1120
Merit: 1000
A quick update: We are currently working through things with busoni and the anonymous hacker regarding the security incident. We have essentially extended a reward as well as a security developer-type position to this individual contingent upon us fully settling this issue and the funds being fully returned.

Phantom is currently implementing even more strict transaction validity checking rules as we speak (to among other things, guard against a specific potential security issue in bitcoind itself that the hacker has identified). We are also working on an intermediate transaction database (to lessen the need to do a full rebuild off of bitcoind for all but the most major updates). That all being said, there will most likely be another update out shortly that requires a rebuild, but we hope that this will be the last for awhile.

We have also created two donation addresses:

Bug bounty program: 14Tf35AovvRVURzd623q5i9kry2EW8WzyL
General donations: 19U6MmLLumsqxXSBMB5FgYXbezgXYC6Gpe

We will be announcing the terms of a bug bounty program later today. If you are interested in helping pay for bounties for bugs found, please donate BTC or XCP to the bounty address above.

General donations (to be used with the project at the Counterparty team's discretion) can be sent to the General donations address.

Again, thank you all for your patience on this matter as we drive it to resolution.


Have the bitcoin devs been notified of the security issue in bitcoind?
sr. member
Activity: 390
Merit: 254
Counterparty Developer
A quick update: We are currently working through things with busoni and the anonymous hacker regarding the security incident. We have essentially extended a reward as well as a security developer-type position to this individual contingent upon us fully settling this issue and the funds being fully returned.

Phantom is currently implementing even more strict transaction validity checking rules as we speak (to among other things, guard against a specific potential security issue in bitcoind "quirk" in bitcoind itself that the hacker has identified). We are also working on an intermediate transaction database (to lessen the need to do a full rebuild off of bitcoind for all but the most major updates). That all being said, there will most likely be another update out shortly that requires a rebuild, but we hope that this will be the last for awhile.

We have also created two donation addresses:

Bug bounty program: 14Tf35AovvRVURzd623q5i9kry2EW8WzyL
General donations: 19U6MmLLumsqxXSBMB5FgYXbezgXYC6Gpe

We will be announcing the terms of a bug bounty program later today. If you are interested in helping pay for bounties for bugs found, please donate BTC or XCP to the bounty address above.

General donations (to be used with the project at the Counterparty team's discretion) can be sent to the General donations address.

Again, thank you all for your patience on this matter as we drive it to resolution.
hero member
Activity: 672
Merit: 500
Any plans to add XCP to any other centralised exchange than poloniex. What is the status with DGEX? I want to liquidate my holdings

Sell in bulk in the buy/sell thread

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/--445740

You'll find a buyer in no time

PS: alternatively you can PM me the price and quantity you want to sell and I'll see if I'm intrested
newbie
Activity: 34
Merit: 0
Any plans to add XCP to any other centralised exchange than poloniex. What is the status with DGEX? I want to liquidate my holdings
legendary
Activity: 1120
Merit: 1000
... I wonder if it is technically realistic?  How would this solution actually be implemented?  

Hard code into the next version, recognizing an address that PhantomPhreak controls as having a balance of 35,000 XCP on the first block. Then, PhantomPhreak sends this to busoni.  I would think it could be a 1 liner, not too hard?

I would hope that, if this is done, we can also set a date for when this type of fix is permanently "off limits". Maybe 6-12 months from now. In other words, a date where we all agree it is no longer Alpha software, but Beta.

And secondly, raise a pool of funds (controlled by PhantomPhreak?) to have a security audit done by an outside party, before we declare the transition from Alpha to Beta.  I would donate to this and I think many others would too.

That's completely defeating the purpose of PoB.


No it doesn't. Burning again doesn't defeat the purpose of burning, it just reestablishes value.

 

Burning again undermines the entire protocol, because it creates the possibility of unlimited inflation. We could just reinitiate a burn whenever people feel like it.
newbie
Activity: 56
Merit: 0
... I wonder if it is technically realistic?  How would this solution actually be implemented?  

Hard code into the next version, recognizing an address that PhantomPhreak controls as having a balance of 35,000 XCP on the first block. Then, PhantomPhreak sends this to busoni.  I would think it could be a 1 liner, not too hard?

I would hope that, if this is done, we can also set a date for when this type of fix is permanently "off limits". Maybe 6-12 months from now. In other words, a date where we all agree it is no longer Alpha software, but Beta.

And secondly, raise a pool of funds (controlled by PhantomPhreak?) to have a security audit done by an outside party, before we declare the transition from Alpha to Beta.  I would donate to this and I think many others would too.

That's completely defeating the purpose of PoB.


No it doesn't. Burning again doesn't defeat the purpose of burning, it just reestablishes value.




Quote
Not Going to Happen.

Busoni is still working a solution, wait for a proposal and then we'll start discussing for a compensation if someone is in the red.

It's in alpha, it is written in red in the first post, these kind of things were going to happen, and might happen again (with a lower probability now)

Personally I've traded a tiny part of my XCP on poloniex, because trading more than 2-3% of your holdings at this stage is foolish. If I lose them because of a bug in the alpha, a hack on an exchange, of whatever, I wouldn't complain.




Yeah, it is an alpha and written in red in the first post. One of the things that would happen is you might lose value in your holdings. So why are you complaining about it happening to you when it is an easy fix that would prove the quality of the community? You said yourself, it is OK to lose them due to a bug in the alpha.


 
sr. member
Activity: 410
Merit: 250
Proof-of-Skill - protoblock.com

So you cant really be sure of your position until the standard 6 confirmations.

Also a miner can game the system by front-running trades after solving a block.

Also there are many "latency arbitrage" "alpha" strategies that can be used to game the system, since it is possible to to make a trade in the past based on "future" information.

This is why Decentralized Distributed Exchanges for liquid assets is nearly impossible to implement.

I've read this whole thread and everything about XCP and still have not found details technical info on how the matching works, does it use "atomic transactions" ?

I have some ideas on solutions, PM if interested.. im a 15 year high frequency trading C++ coders.  cheers 

Hello, not sure if I can help but I've made some trades on the DEX.

Actually I've encountered a simultaneous trade with someone else (within the same block) he was first and since he took the whole order I end up with an unfilled buy order. I think that your are sure of your position as soon as the block is mined (and as long as there is no fork in BTC, which is quite rare)

About the latency arbitrages you're talking about, I have no clue but I'm really interested about this possibility and how to avoid it.

I've also red that DEXes are not (and will probably never be) suited for HFT (I remember Vitalik saying that somewhere in this thread) I have no trading vocabulary but I see the DEX as a low frequency (10m) trading engine. Which is already quite a nice innovation !

Trust me if

So you cant really be sure of your position until the standard 6 confirmations.

Also a miner can game the system by front-running trades after solving a block.

Also there are many "latency arbitrage" "alpha" strategies that can be used to game the system, since it is possible to to make a trade in the past based on "future" information.

This is why Decentralized Distributed Exchanges for liquid assets is nearly impossible to implement.

I've read this whole thread and everything about XCP and still have not found details technical info on how the matching works, does it use "atomic transactions" ?

I have some ideas on solutions, PM if interested.. im a 15 year high frequency trading C++ coders.  cheers 

Hello, not sure if I can help but I've made some trades on the DEX.

Actually I've encountered a simultaneous trade with someone else (within the same block) he was first and since he took the whole order I end up with an unfilled buy order. I think that your are sure of your position as soon as the block is mined (and as long as there is no fork in BTC, which is quite rare)

About the latency arbitrages you're talking about, I have no clue but I'm really interested about this possibility and how to avoid it.

I've also red that DEXes are not (and will probably never be) suited for HFT (I remember Vitalik saying that somewhere in this thread) I have no trading vocabulary but I see the DEX as a low frequency (10m) trading engine. Which is already quite a nice innovation !

This is an interesting concept but I don't expect widespread adoption of XCP.

First of all, its use is very limited. I don't think it will win over a single professional trader ever. In this time and age of HFT (high frequency trading) in most markets, especially the very liquid ones, where latencies are counted by the microseconds, the pace of 1 block per 10 minutes is not really going to cut it. This alone already rules out liquid markets like FX, MM, rates equities and commodities, where 99.999% of the trades are. Low Lack liquidity in XCP will translate to huge spreads and slippage from hell, making it unprofitable to trade through XCP, which in turn hurts liquidity. You can't break that vicious circle unless you can compete with the lightning speed and market depth at the exchanges. Unfortunately I don't see that ever happening. And oh, the exchange fees in these very liquid markets are negligible, especially for high volumes, so no advantage for XCP there either.

Mind you I'm not dismissing XCP, it's fantastic technology and it will have many novel applications. But I just don't think it's going to have the same level of impact as bitcoin, which was truly a paradigm shift.

I hope I'm proven wrong though!  Smiley

Blockchain-based technologies in general, whether BTC, MSC, XCP or Ethereum, will not be used for HFT. The scalability is simply not there for that. OpenTransactions servers, on the other hand, are excellent for HFT. Blockchains are for higher-value transactions and settlement.

Forget about HFT. Its all about latency arbitrage. If I have the fastest quotes feeds and the fastest access to exchanges, then there are specific techniques that enable trading with nearly 100% profitability. Goldman Sacks and JPMorgan, are on a streak of hundreds of days in a row with no losses in their "prop program trading book".

In this case, its much worse, because you can decide to take the trade or give it to the original trader, depending on what happened after the trade. So you can rewrite history, it doesn't matter how frequent the trades are.

Also, if this DEX get big and there is a huge trade during a bitcoin "flash crash", I can guarantee that some group of miners/traders will front run and create a fork.

DEX can only work if you only allow trading on confirmed blocks. So basically orders can only be matched against orders that have 6 confirmations, and then you need to wait another 6 confirmations to "clear" the trade.

One idea (off the top of my head)  is to have a 6 confirmation pause between "trading sessions", no trading allowed during the pause.
legendary
Activity: 1708
Merit: 1000
Reality is stranger than fiction
Is the DEX working? I'm not seeing any newly matched orders on blockscan.


exactly. what is happening on the DEX and POLONIEX?
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