[ANN][XCP] Counterparty - Pioneering Peer-to-Peer Finance - Official Thread - page 623.

kdrop22

full member

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Quote from: panonym on January 13, 2014, 10:03:58 AM

Quote from: PhantomPhreak on January 13, 2014, 09:53:09 AM

The bigger the bet is, the higher is the fee paid to the operator.

The question isn't whether or not a feed operator could screw people over for money. The question is whether or not he would make more money by being honest. A good reputation will be very valuable, as it is on the Silk Road.

I understand what you say. But it's not convincing enough for me to use your betting system.
'certainly not the only one.
Sure an honest feeder will make more money as time pass, reputation increase, ++money as bet rise higher.
So thousands of people will want to become feeder.
Random guy must choose randomly which feed chose, or after 2 month, choosing the one with the best reputation (discovered through hard research, nothing easy).

Might work for let's say 5 honest guy.
Creating a tiny feeder elite.
Yet if bet start to be REALLY huge, at one moment one of the top 5 have a choice:
A: continue to be honest, I already made x$, if I continue in 2 month I might have 2x!
B: months of time spent to build a reputation (hard to find), made y$ in 6 month. Do I wait 4 month more, playing nice, to perhaps reach 2y$ ? or do I screw them all and take 16y$ now?
Supposedly 16y$ = 1'000'000$, temptation is huge

He could make more, but 'need +1yr and result is uncertain. As is BTC&XCP value as time pass.
Big Big now? or moderately great over very long time? 'arrive one point for many...
Tony had a very good reputation on SR I heard...

Agree with your point.
However, centralized feeds seem to be the only workable option right now. Protoshares has proposed an alternative model, based on bid/ask prices for their BitUSD, however that model seems a little bit naive to me. That just because we call something BitUSD, the price of that will track the USD.
If you have an alternative model, please feel free to propose it.

jimhsu

sr. member

Activity: 364

Merit: 264

Quote from: panonym on January 13, 2014, 06:32:40 AM

Quote from: xnova on January 12, 2014, 09:59:23 PM

Agreed, the database rebuild should only take 20-30 minutes at most (that's around what it took for me). Try looking at your processes and make sure nothing is hogging the CPU or I/O.

I'd love it to take only 30min.
I'm at block 279148... So it does take hours and hours and hours on my end.

Any help trying to figure why (from anyone) is appreciated.
From speedtest.net I got: Ping 7ms, 25.71Mbps on DL, 2.41 Mbps on UP

I only know the command top to check CPU/mem usage. Here is the result:

Code:

top - 12:23:52 up 2 days, 45 min,  4 users,  load average: 2,11, 1,97, 1,89
Tasks: 214 total,   1 running, 212 sleeping,   0 stopped,   1 zombie
%Cpu(s): 10,0 us,  2,5 sy,  0,3 ni, 41,6 id, 45,6 wa,  0,0 hi,  0,0 si,  0,0 st
KiB Mem:   2005716 total,  1762632 used,   243084 free,     3100 buffers
KiB Swap:  2050044 total,  1274540 used,   775504 free,   443924 cached

  PID USER      PR  NI  VIRT  RES  SHR S  %CPU %MEM    TIME+  COMMAND           
 2199 panonym   20   0 1828m 618m  23m S  11,3 31,6 180:13.59 firefox           
  987 root      20   0  568m  43m  17m S   2,7  2,2  47:02.65 Xorg              
19342 panonym   20   0  155m  17m 2288 S   2,7  0,9  18:28.92 python            
 2194 panonym   20   0 1693m 152m 9368 S   2,0  7,8  35:46.45 btc               
 2003 panonym   20   0 1255m  25m 7904 S   1,7  1,3  42:11.56 compiz            
 7274 panonym   20   0 1004m  55m 9524 S   1,7  2,9  21:22.09 plugin-containe   
 8413 panonym   20   0 1335m  18m 4520 S   1,3  0,9  12:06.88 transmission-gt   
 2107 panonym   20   0  641m  12m 5144 S   0,7  0,6   0:19.76 gnome-terminal    
   17 root      20   0     0    0    0 S   0,3  0,0   0:55.67 rcu_sched         
 7442 panonym   20   0 1543m 145m 2092 S   0,3  7,4   4:39.35 ltc               
10778 panonym   20   0 29080 1508 1016 R   0,3  0,1   0:01.64 top

Of course it fluctuate (%CPU firefox 2.3 only after checking 2min later)

I'm short on RAM, 2 GB. Could it be the matter? (2GB wasn't that low a few years ago)

Code:

free -m
             total       used       free     shared    buffers     cached
Mem:          1958       1883         75          0          5        528
-/+ buffers/cache:       1349        609
Swap:         2001       1241        760

public upload of ~/counterpartyd_build & ~/.config/counterpartyd would still be appreciated.

Your firefox instance seems to be pretty greedy. Kill it with fire?

In other news, 16GB dedicated servers can be had for not much more than $20/month these days (albeit a very special deal on lowendbox). (Yes, a real dedicated, KVM and power management and all).

peled1986

legendary

Activity: 882

Merit: 1002

Quote from: SyRenity on January 13, 2014, 12:37:22 PM

Or due 1 BTC limit, this won't be possible?

Its 1 BTC per address meaning 1 person can "burn" as many BTC as he wants - it would just take him more time.

SyRenity

hero member

Activity: 756

Merit: 502

I wonder if it possible to know the coins distribution, so the whale sale leading to crash (aka what happened to MSC, and apparently NXT) can be detected (and ignored)?

Or due 1 BTC limit, this won't be possible?

jimhsu

sr. member

Activity: 364

Merit: 264

The transaction seemed to go through, but I am stuck with Status: 0/unconfirmed without any broadcasts for about 20 minutes so far. Bitcoin-qt is well connected (10 active connections). How long does it take typically?
It did actually go through, though not for 30 minutes.

Also, more error reports:

1. rpc-user and rpc-password should be prefixed with "bitcoind-" in the autogenerated config from the installer. Or at least make that part of it clear.
2. I still get the u2026 unicode errors in windows when doing "counterpartyd market".

Open Orders
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "counterpartyd.py", line 608, in
   market(args.give_asset, args.get_asset)
  File "counterpartyd.py", line 41, in market
   print(str(table.get_string(sortby='Price')))
  File "c:\Python33\lib\encodings\cp437.py", line 19, in encode
   return codecs.charmap_encode(input,self.errors,encoding_map)[0]
UnicodeEncodeError: 'charmap' codec can't encode character '\u2026' in position
483: character maps to

This worked before (albeit being blank), so obviously some of the new transactions that have come up in the last day are causing this error.

xnova

sr. member

Activity: 390

Merit: 254

Counterparty Developer

Quote from: jimhsu on January 13, 2014, 11:36:55 AM

I get the following error when trying to make a test order:

ImportError: No module named 'pycoin'

Win7, x64, latest windows installer (0.1.0.0)
Thanks

I did an update on an existing counterpartyd install. Is this causing the problem?

Searching further, it appears that the windows install is missing the pycoin module. How do I "embed" the module into the exe (installing it into my Python directory didn't seem to work)?

I just updated the build system to include pycoin. Also created new installer. Please grab the newest installer .exe from github (https://github.com/xnova/counterpartyd_binaries) and try it again, and let me know if you still have issues with it. Thanks!

jimhsu

sr. member

Activity: 364

Merit: 264

I get the following error when trying to make a test order:

C:\Program Files\counterpartyd>COUNTERPARTYD order --from [redacted] --get-quantity 0.1 --get-asset BTC --give-quantity 1 --give-asset XC
P --expiration 65535
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "C:\Python33\lib\site-packages\cx_Freeze\initscripts\Console3.py", line 2
7, in
  File "C:\counterpartyd_build\dist\counterpartyd\counterpartyd.py", line 485, i
n
  File "C:\counterpartyd_build\dist\counterpartyd\lib\order.py", line 31, in cre
ate
  File "C:\counterpartyd_build\dist\counterpartyd\lib\bitcoin.py", line 292, in
transaction
  File "C:\counterpartyd_build\dist\counterpartyd\lib\bitcoin.py", line 170, in
serialise
  File "C:\Python\64-bit\3.3\lib\importlib\_bootstrap.py", line 1567, in _find_a
nd_load
  File "C:\Python\64-bit\3.3\lib\importlib\_bootstrap.py", line 1514, in _find_a
nd_load_unlocked
  File "C:\Python\64-bit\3.3\lib\importlib\_bootstrap.py", line 313, in _call_wi
th_frames_removed
  File "C:\Python\64-bit\3.3\lib\importlib\_bootstrap.py", line 1567, in _find_a
nd_load
  File "C:\Python\64-bit\3.3\lib\importlib\_bootstrap.py", line 1531, in _find_a
nd_load_unlocked
ImportError: No module named 'pycoin'

Win7, x64, latest windows installer (0.1.0.0)
Thanks

I did an update on an existing counterpartyd install. Is this causing the problem?

Searching further, it appears that the windows install is missing the pycoin module. How do I "embed" the module into the exe (installing it into my Python directory didn't seem to work)?

Confirmed, this works with the manual python install. The windows installer should be updated.

xnova

sr. member

Activity: 390

Merit: 254

Counterparty Developer

Quote from: panonym on January 13, 2014, 10:26:25 AM

Counting money they made Roll Eyes

Well, there's Counterparty business idea #2,329, which would be a system that indexes, ranks and orders bookies (i.e. feed-for-bet creators) on trustworthiness. Without this, one could simply look at the history of the bet-on broadcasts from that address to get an idea of the reputation/honesty of the feed operator. Yes, none of it is perfect, but neither is buying something on eBay or craigslist. Centralized organizations are welcome to (and I believe will) spring up around Counterparty to offer such reputations/warranty/insurance services, and if thee is a way we can extend or better the core protocol while maintaining decentralization and overall simplicity, then we'll definitely investigate it.

panonym

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Help and Love one another ♥

Counting money they made Roll Eyes

Winslow Strong

newbie

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Quote from: mtbitcoin on January 12, 2014, 09:15:47 PM

Community participation should be better with Counterparty considering that you have to literally burn BTC to receive XCP and there will not be issues of enriching the developer because no one has access to the burnt coins. This "sounds" less scammy. In addition we have an actual working code base from the start.

Also I expect the initial distribution of XCP to be slightly more balanced given the additional exposure of additional protocols running on top of bitcoin compared to a few months back

The downside though is without reservation of any bounties or incentives, moving forward it's highly likely that future developements will need to be driven by the community

This seems like an unfortunate tradeoff to (?have to?) make. Is the scam risk really perceived to be so high, given that so much code is actually already finished, open source, and demonstrably working? Then again, mastercoin has had tons of funds available for bounties, and it hasn't progressed very quickly. Does anyone understand what is taking them so long?

panonym

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Quote from: PhantomPhreak on January 13, 2014, 09:53:09 AM

The bigger the bet is, the higher is the fee paid to the operator.

The question isn't whether or not a feed operator could screw people over for money. The question is whether or not he would make more money by being honest. A good reputation will be very valuable, as it is on the Silk Road.

I understand what you say. But it's not convincing enough for me to use your betting system.
'certainly not the only one.
Sure an honest feeder will make more money as time pass, reputation increase, ++money as bet rise higher.
So thousands of people will want to become feeder.
Random guy must choose randomly which feed chose, or after 2 month, choosing the one with the best reputation (discovered through hard research, nothing easy).

Might work for let's say 5 honest guy.
Creating a tiny feeder elite.
Yet if bet start to be REALLY huge, at one moment one of the top 5 have a choice:
A: continue to be honest, I already made x$, if I continue in 2 month I might have 2x!
B: months of time spent to build a reputation (hard to find), made y$ in 6 month. Do I wait 4 month more, playing nice, to perhaps reach 2y$ ? or do I screw them all and take 16y$ now?
Supposedly 16y$ = 1'000'000$, temptation is huge

He could make more, but 'need +1yr and result is uncertain. As is BTC&XCP value as time pass.
Big Big now? or moderately great over very long time? 'arrive one point for many...
Tony had a very good reputation on SR I heard...

PhantomPhreak

sr. member

Activity: 476

Merit: 300

Counterparty Chief Scientist and Co-Founder

Quote from: panonym on January 13, 2014, 09:47:33 AM

Quote from: PhantomPhreak on January 13, 2014, 09:43:51 AM

Quote from: panonym on January 13, 2014, 09:21:27 AM

I still haven't read anything satisfactory about wagers centralisation/trust-issue with the implemented betting system.
As I understand it, I will never use it.
A single feeder guy arbitrarily choose the result... deciding who win or lose. No guarantee feeder result = actual result.
Big trust issue there.

Feed operators have a strong incentive to be honest, because those betting can easily see which feeds are and which are not. Honest operators will obviously make more in the long run.

Operator is anonymous...
Sure, let's be honest. Slowly more people will make higher bet.
Until big money is tempting enough, he bet on his own feed the maximum he can, feed what he need to win against all odd.
Hop 'one rich guy and hundreads fucked.
Let's start again!

The bigger the bet is, the higher is the fee paid to the operator.

The question isn't whether or not a feed operator could screw people over for money. The question is whether or not he would make more money by being honest. A good reputation will be very valuable, as it is on the Silk Road.

panonym

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Help and Love one another ♥

Quote from: PhantomPhreak on January 13, 2014, 09:43:51 AM

Quote from: panonym on January 13, 2014, 09:21:27 AM

I still haven't read anything satisfactory about wagers centralisation/trust-issue with the implemented betting system.
As I understand it, I will never use it.
A single feeder guy arbitrarily choose the result... deciding who win or lose. No guarantee feeder result = actual result.
Big trust issue there.

Feed operators have a strong incentive to be honest, because those betting can easily see which feeds are and which are not. Honest operators will obviously make more in the long run.

Operator is anonymous...
Sure, let's be honest. Slowly more people will make higher bet.
Until big money is tempting enough, he bet on his own feed the maximum he can, feed what he need to win against all odd.
Hop 'one rich guy and hundreads fucked.
Let's start again!

It's not a possibility, it WILL happen.

PhantomPhreak

sr. member

Activity: 476

Merit: 300

Counterparty Chief Scientist and Co-Founder

Quote from: panonym on January 13, 2014, 09:21:27 AM

I still haven't read anything satisfactory about wagers centralisation/trust-issue with the implemented betting system.
As I understand it, I will never use it.
A single feeder guy arbitrarily choose the result... deciding who win or lose. No guarantee feeder result = actual result.
Big trust issue there.

Feed operators have a strong incentive to be honest, because those betting can easily see which feeds are and which are not. Honest operators will obviously make more in the long run.

panonym

sr. member

Activity: 266

Merit: 250

Help and Love one another ♥

I still haven't read anything satisfactory about wagers centralisation/trust-issue with the implemented betting system.
As I understand it, I will never use it.
A single feeder guy arbitrarily choose the result... deciding who win or lose. No guarantee feeder result = actual result.
Big trust issue there.

reader31

full member

Activity: 221

Merit: 100

Quote from: mtbitcoin on January 13, 2014, 02:35:22 AM

Quote from: reader31 on January 13, 2014, 02:27:19 AM

Hey Guys,

I rebuilt counterpartyd with the latest code updates, but when I tried to run

Quote

counterpartyd --log-file=- -v

I get the following error,

Quote

Traceback (most recent call last):
File "/home/coin/counterpartyd_build/dist/counterpartyd/counterpartyd.py", line 358, in
raise exceptions.ConfigurationError('RPC password not set. (Use configuration file or --bitcoind-rpc-password=PASSWORD)')
lib.exceptions.ConfigurationError: RPC password not set. (Use configuration file or --bitcoind-rpc-password=PASSWORD)

I have the bitcoin-qt running already and the config file for both the counterpartyd and bitcoind have the rpc password already set properly. This setup was working a feew days back. Not sure if something changed recently.

heres my bitcoin.conf file,

Quote

rpcuser=rpc
rpcpassword=rpcpw1234
server=1
daemon=1
txindex=1

This is my counterparty.conf file,

Quote

[Default]
rpc-connect=localhost
rpc-port=8332
rpc-user=rpc
rpc-password=rpcpw1234

I was trying to get counterpartyd running on the mainnet to do some testing and ran into this error. Any insights would be helpful. Thx.

They have changed the syntax parameters in the latest build. A change log would be nice :-)

Try prefixing your your counterparty.conf file with the following "--bitcoind"

for example
rpc-port=8332 ---> bitcoind-rpc-port=8332

Cheers

Cool...will try that thx

PhantomPhreak

sr. member

Activity: 476

Merit: 300

Counterparty Chief Scientist and Co-Founder

Quote from: mtbitcoin on January 13, 2014, 02:24:55 AM

xnova or Phantom :

Can you summarize as to what is the format of encoding for the [data] field in the transaction table so I can decode and show this correctly on the block explorer?

Thanks

That field is the result of the ordered concatenation of all of the OP_RETURN and multi-sig fields of the transaction. For 'testcoin' transactions, the first two bytes are b'XX'; for regular transactions, the first eight bytes are b'CNTRPRTY'. After that, there is a four-byte big-endian unsigned integer 'message type ID', e.g. 10 for orders. Then the rest of the data is the message-type-specific data. For instance, with the 'order' message type, the format is '>QQQQHQ', using the struct Python module, and the fields are, respectively give_id, give_amount, get_id, get_amount, expiration, fee_required. Asset IDs are the upper-case alphabetic asset names understood as Base 26 integers, for compression.

PhantomPhreak

sr. member

Activity: 476

Merit: 300

Counterparty Chief Scientist and Co-Founder

Quote from: BitThink on January 12, 2014, 10:06:02 PM

Quote from: Kyune on January 12, 2014, 01:42:25 PM

Quote from: SyRenity on January 12, 2014, 11:44:33 AM

Quote from: BitThink on January 12, 2014, 10:04:04 AM

XCP is more like MSC than Nxt. Nxt is an altcoin having its own blockchain, but XCP is based on bitcoin blockchain just as MSC.

The benefit to have its own blockchain is the low level protocol can be designed from the scratch to make all high-level protocols easier to be implemented and parsing more efficient. On the other hand, the benefit of basing on bitcoin blockchain is there's already secure hashing rate and a lot of users are already using bitcoin. Moreover, implementation is easier since there's no need to worry about all those mining things.

BTW, one large advantage of Nxt is it's transparent forging (mining). According to what the dev said, it can help to make 51% attack almost impossible. I'm sure everyone agree that 51% attack is almost the pain of bitcoin and all its copycats.

Thanks. What about comparison to MSC?

If Mastercoin is the most apt comparison, you may want to review the questions stslimited has been raising about Mastercoin over the last few days in this (Mastercoin) thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=265488.2780. It seems to me, at least at first glance, that his concerns may have some relevance to Counterparty as well.

Questions like: what is the functional difference between 10 XCP or 1 XCP or .1 XCP? How many XCP would someone actually need to use any aspects of this additional protocol layer? What would require someone to spend XCP or go get more XCP from the open market?

Actually this is a very good question. For all us investors, especially those who want to see the price of XCP increase 10x or even 100x, to understand the demand of XCP is very important.

Let's check the feature of XCP one by one.
1) issue and order
If I am not wrong, any issue can be priced either in XCP or BTC. If an asset is priced in XCP, then the orders can be matched and finished immediately. For BTC priced orders, BTCPay message is need to finished the matched order. Therefore, it's possible people may prefer XCP priced issue to BTC priced issue due to instant transaction. If the XCP price is relatively stable, people may buy certain amount of XCP with BTC in beforehand, and then use XCP to buy assets instantly.

2) dividend
It seems the dividends have to be paid in XCP, unless the dividends are paid outside of the exchange. Therefore, the asset issuers most likely will buy XCP for distributing the dividends.

(Actually, I am not sure about this. If there're good 3rd party software support, it is equally easy for the issuers to pay the dividends in BTC, because they have all the investors BTC addresses. The exchange has to provide more convenience to attract more issuers to pay dividends in XCP instead.)

3) broadcast and bets.
It seems betting fee are all in XCP, so people need XCP to make a bet.

Therefore, to some extent XCP is like the token in a casino and BTC is like the money, but the supply of token in XCP exchange is limited. If there're more issuers, more (bet) users, and more BTC go into the exchange, the value of token will increase, and the price of XCP is finally determined by how many users and how many funds will go into the exchange.

1) 'Issuances' don't have prices---all they do is create assets. (issuance --quantity=100 --asset='BPCJF' just credits your address with 100 BPCJF.) People seem to think that 'issue' means 'sell' or something like that. Should we change the name to 'create'?

2) Dividends paid in XCP, through Counterparty, are cheaper, as they only require one small transaction. They're also much easier and more readily verifiable.

3) Not only are all betting fees in XCP, but all wagers are too.

panonym

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Quote from: xnova on January 12, 2014, 09:59:23 PM

Agreed, the database rebuild should only take 20-30 minutes at most (that's around what it took for me). Try looking at your processes and make sure nothing is hogging the CPU or I/O.

I'd love it to take only 30min.
I'm at block 279148... So it does take hours and hours and hours on my end.

Any help trying to figure why (from anyone) is appreciated.
From speedtest.net I got: Ping 7ms, 25.71Mbps on DL, 2.41 Mbps on UP

I only know the command top to check CPU/mem usage. Here is the result:

Code:

top - 12:23:52 up 2 days, 45 min,  4 users,  load average: 2,11, 1,97, 1,89
Tasks: 214 total,   1 running, 212 sleeping,   0 stopped,   1 zombie
%Cpu(s): 10,0 us,  2,5 sy,  0,3 ni, 41,6 id, 45,6 wa,  0,0 hi,  0,0 si,  0,0 st
KiB Mem:   2005716 total,  1762632 used,   243084 free,     3100 buffers
KiB Swap:  2050044 total,  1274540 used,   775504 free,   443924 cached

  PID USER      PR  NI  VIRT  RES  SHR S  %CPU %MEM    TIME+  COMMAND           
 2199 panonym   20   0 1828m 618m  23m S  11,3 31,6 180:13.59 firefox           
  987 root      20   0  568m  43m  17m S   2,7  2,2  47:02.65 Xorg              
19342 panonym   20   0  155m  17m 2288 S   2,7  0,9  18:28.92 python            
 2194 panonym   20   0 1693m 152m 9368 S   2,0  7,8  35:46.45 btc               
 2003 panonym   20   0 1255m  25m 7904 S   1,7  1,3  42:11.56 compiz            
 7274 panonym   20   0 1004m  55m 9524 S   1,7  2,9  21:22.09 plugin-containe   
 8413 panonym   20   0 1335m  18m 4520 S   1,3  0,9  12:06.88 transmission-gt   
 2107 panonym   20   0  641m  12m 5144 S   0,7  0,6   0:19.76 gnome-terminal    
   17 root      20   0     0    0    0 S   0,3  0,0   0:55.67 rcu_sched         
 7442 panonym   20   0 1543m 145m 2092 S   0,3  7,4   4:39.35 ltc               
10778 panonym   20   0 29080 1508 1016 R   0,3  0,1   0:01.64 top

Of course it fluctuate (%CPU firefox 2.3 only after checking 2min later)

I'm short on RAM, 2 GB. Could it be the matter? (2GB wasn't that low a few years ago)

Code:

free -m
             total       used       free     shared    buffers     cached
Mem:          1958       1883         75          0          5        528
-/+ buffers/cache:       1349        609
Swap:         2001       1241        760

public upload of ~/counterpartyd_build & ~/.config/counterpartyd would still be appreciated.

BitThink

legendary

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Quote from: bitme on January 13, 2014, 05:23:07 AM

Does the same balance that expected checked at blockscan.com and counterparty-explorer.com mean with high probability(>99%) that burn went right?

Blockscan.com uses the official counterpartyd, so if your balance is shown there, you are good.

Counterparty-explorer is an alternate implementation follows the same specification, so the two balance should be the same. If not, most likely it's a bug of counterparty-explorer and please notify me. Thanks.

Topic: [ANN][XCP] Counterparty - Pioneering Peer-to-Peer Finance - Official Thread - page 623. (Read 1276928 times)