[ANN][XCP] Counterparty - Pioneering Peer-to-Peer Finance - Official Thread - page 658.

cityglut

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Quote from: NewLiberty on January 02, 2014, 09:42:31 PM

Interesting project.
Are you able to tell us why did you decided to make these new accounts to announce this?

We have all been very active on bitcointalk, but we created new accounts primarily for two reasons: First, the code is open-source, and we want dicussion to be about the project, as opposed to our past activity within Bitcoin. Also, some of the functions we provide are innovations, and as such their legal status is not yet clear. We imagine that similar considerations prompted Satoshi to remain anonymous, and we felt that he made the right decision, so we decided to follow his example.

cityglut

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Quote from: Jaguar0625 on January 02, 2014, 10:43:45 PM

Quote from: PhantomPhreak on January 02, 2014, 09:40:50 AM

The Counterparty protocol has not yet been finalized! You may lose your money if it changes!
[/center]

This looks like an interesting project. Has the timeframe of the burn period been decided? Does this warning mean that we shouldn't burn real BTC yet?

The burn period goes from block 278310 to block 283810, or roughly a month. You can burn real BTC, but there are risks associated with doing so, which is why there is a 50% reward that is linearly decreasing over the course of the burn period.

Jaguar0625

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Quote from: PhantomPhreak on January 02, 2014, 09:40:50 AM

The Counterparty protocol has not yet been finalized! You may lose your money if it changes!
[/center]

This looks like an interesting project. Has the timeframe of the burn period been decided? Does this warning mean that we shouldn't burn real BTC yet?

btc4ever

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Activity: 321

Merit: 250

I worked around the last problem by placing this code before the problem line.

Quote

if tx == None:
return None, None, None, None, None

So now it chugs along for a minute or two and then I get:

Quote

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "./counterpartyd.py", line 504, in
   blocks.follow()
  File "/home/counterpartycoin/counterpartyd/lib/blocks.py", line 404, in follow
   source, destination, btc_amount, fee, data = get_tx_info(tx)
  File "/home/counterpartycoin/counterpartyd/lib/blocks.py", line 323, in get_tx_info
   data = binascii.unhexlify(asm[1])
TypeError: 'str' does not support the buffer interface

I'm not sure this is ready for primetime yet. Well, you did say it is alpha.

btc4ever

sr. member

Activity: 321

Merit: 250

Quote

$ ./start_counterpartyd.sh
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "./counterpartyd.py", line 504, in
blocks.follow()
File "/home/counterpartycoin/counterpartyd/lib/blocks.py", line 401, in follow
source, destination, btc_amount, fee, data = get_tx_info(tx)
File "/home/counterpartycoin/counterpartyd/lib/blocks.py", line 306, in get_tx_info
for vout in tx['vout']:
TypeError: 'NoneType' object is not subscriptable

NewLiberty

legendary

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Gresham's Lawyer

Interesting project.
Are you able to tell us why did you decided to make these new accounts to announce this?

romerun

legendary

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Bitcoin is new, makes sense to hodl.

have you thought of doing it over Peercoin blockchain as BTC is so precious that it would be much sad to see it burnt ? Ppc inflates 1% on POS minting (although it also destroys 0.01 transaction fee), so the burnt coins will hopefully be regenerated and we can keep our XCP.

utopianfuture

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Activity: 602

Merit: 268

Internet of Value

Sound like something worth watching. Good luck.

cityglut

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Activity: 216

Merit: 100

Quote from: Voodah on January 02, 2014, 08:55:25 PM

Thanks for both of your answers. I'll be burning a few mBTC later at home.

I suggest however you measure your words. There are a lot of fanatics out there ready to chew on competition.

You say these two things for example, which mainly concern trust issues, without real consideration and little objectivity:

Quote from: cityglut on January 02, 2014, 08:39:06 PM

As far as JR is concerned, everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but I personally wouldn't feel assured in any way by someone sending 1000 BTC to an address for which he had the private key.

You wouldn't feel assured about a man who used his real account (doxed btw) who put 1k BTC into his idea, so as to be forced to have it move forward or face losing his fortune.

Yet you ask us to feel assured about three guys who come out of nowhere using sock accounts and no money backing the project (other than your personal expenditures)??

Do you realize how bad that sounds?

Quote from: cityglut on January 02, 2014, 08:39:06 PM

EDIT: From the beginning Mastercoin has been centralized and has relied on a trust system, and in Counterparty we are trying to limit centralization and maximize trustlessness in every way possible.

This is true so far, but we still have to trust in you guys, three absolute unknowns. Still, Mastercoin is actively considering going fully decentralized, which would make this point even and no longer valid.

I repeat, I like the concept and will be burning some later, so rest assured, this is not a flame. Just a word of caution on how you conduct yourselves.

Thank you for your responses, and I will take your advice in measuring my tone.

I am glad to hear you will be burning, and we appreciate your support.

I do want to emphasize though that, since the code is open-source and extant, and we do not benefit from your burns (which are sent to a provably unspendable address) we are trying to minimize the question of trust.

If you can think of any way in which we can further minimize trust and centralization, please let me know.

Also, I want to emphasize that what I write reflects only my own beliefs, not those of the rest of the team.

Voodah

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Activity: 266

Merit: 250

Thanks for both of your answers. I'll be burning a few mBTC later at home.

I suggest however you measure your words. There are a lot of fanatics out there ready to chew on competition.

You say these two things for example, which mainly concern trust issues, without real consideration and little objectivity:

Quote from: cityglut on January 02, 2014, 08:39:06 PM

As far as JR is concerned, everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but I personally wouldn't feel assured in any way by someone sending 1000 BTC to an address for which he had the private key.

You wouldn't feel assured about a man who used his real account (doxed btw) who put 1k BTC into his idea, so as to be forced to have it move forward or face losing his fortune.

Yet you ask us to feel assured about three guys who come out of nowhere using sock accounts and no money backing the project (other than your personal expenditures)??

Do you realize how bad that sounds?

Quote from: cityglut on January 02, 2014, 08:39:06 PM

EDIT: From the beginning Mastercoin has been centralized and has relied on a trust system, and in Counterparty we are trying to limit centralization and maximize trustlessness in every way possible.

This is true so far, but we still have to trust in you guys, three absolute unknowns. Still, Mastercoin is actively considering going fully decentralized, which would make this point even and no longer valid.

I repeat, I like the concept and will be burning some later, so rest assured, this is not a flame. Just a word of caution on how you conduct yourselves.

cityglut

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Activity: 216

Merit: 100

Quote from: Voodah on January 02, 2014, 08:22:13 PM

Quote from: cityglut on January 02, 2014, 08:15:01 PM

Quote from: Voodah on January 02, 2014, 08:08:56 PM

So I'm better off burning right now than at any other point in time right?

If you are confident in the project's success then you are better off burning ASAP. The reward for early investment is, however, not arbitrary: there is definite risk associated witha new project that has not been thoroughly bug tested, which may make some people forego investing until there is more consensus regarding the project's viability.

What happens after the burn period?

How will XCP be minted then?

If the burn goes by without great success are you then left off with a very low liquidity currency?

EDIT: Let's face it, one of the main big contributing factors to the success of Mastercoin's similar process, was that JR put his 1k BTC in from the go. That gave people the confidence to change their btc.

After the burn period, no more XCP can be created.

Usually, a 'low liquidity currency' denotes a currency for which there is a low demand, but I think by 'low liquidity currency' you mean a currency that there isn't a lot of, right? I think it is important to make a distinction between the two. XCP are, like BTC, divisble to 8 decimal places, and so if Z XCP are created, there are actually Z * 10^8 usable units of XCP. This lessens concerns regarding low supply, even after the burn period is over.

As far as JR is concerned, everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but I personally wouldn't feel assured in any way by someone sending 1000 BTC to an address for which he had the private key.

EDIT: From the beginning Mastercoin has been centralized and has relied on a trust system, and in Counterparty we are trying to limit centralization and maximize trustlessness in every way possible.

PhantomPhreak

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Activity: 476

Merit: 300

Counterparty Chief Scientist and Co-Founder

Quote from: Voodah on January 02, 2014, 08:22:13 PM

Quote from: cityglut on January 02, 2014, 08:15:01 PM

Quote from: Voodah on January 02, 2014, 08:08:56 PM

So I'm better off burning right now than at any other point in time right?

If you are confident in the project's success then you are better off burning ASAP. The reward for early investment is, however, not arbitrary: there is definite risk associated witha new project that has not been thoroughly bug tested, which may make some people forego investing until there is more consensus regarding the project's viability.

What happens after the burn period?

How will XCP be minted then?

If the burn goes by without great success are you then left off with a very low liquidity currency?

EDIT: Let's face it, one of the main big contributing factors to the success of Mastercoin's similar process, was that JR put his 1k BTC in from the go. That gave people the confidence to change their btc.

After the burn period no more XCP will be minted. If not enough are minted, then the liquidity won't be a problem, just the divisibility, and while one XCP is currently divisible to eight decimal places, that number can be extended very easily.

PhantomPhreak

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Counterparty Chief Scientist and Co-Founder

Quote from: btc4ever on January 02, 2014, 07:53:20 PM

Running setup.py on ubuntu, get this error:

Quote

Setting up sqlite3 (3.7.13-1) ...
Processing triggers for libc-bin ...
ldconfig deferred processing now taking place
sudo: pip3: command not found
2014-01-02 16:46:30,314|ERROR: Command failed: 'sudo pip3 install appdirs==1.2.0'

$ sudo pip-3.2 install appdirs==1.2.0
Requirement already satisfied (use --upgrade to upgrade): appdirs==1.2.0 in /usr/local/lib/python3.2/dist-packages
Cleaning up...

$ ./counterpartyd.py
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "./counterpartyd.py", line 17, in
import dateutil.parser
ImportError: No module named dateutil.parser

$ sudo pip-3.2 install dateutil
Downloading/unpacking dateutil
Real name of requirement dateutil is dateutil
Could not find any downloads that satisfy the requirement dateutil
No distributions at all found for dateutil

so setup.py fails on pip3 appdirs, counterpartyd complains about missing dateutil, and I'm not sure how to install dateutil.

What version of Ubuntu are you running?

Voodah

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Merit: 250

Quote from: cityglut on January 02, 2014, 08:15:01 PM

Quote from: Voodah on January 02, 2014, 08:08:56 PM

So I'm better off burning right now than at any other point in time right?

If you are confident in the project's success then you are better off burning ASAP. The reward for early investment is, however, not arbitrary: there is definite risk associated witha new project that has not been thoroughly bug tested, which may make some people forego investing until there is more consensus regarding the project's viability.

What happens after the burn period?

How will XCP be minted then?

If the burn goes by without great success are you then left off with a very low liquidity currency?

EDIT: Let's face it, one of the main big contributing factors to the success of Mastercoin's similar process, was that JR put his 1k BTC in from the go. That gave people the confidence to change their btc.

cityglut

full member

Activity: 216

Merit: 100

Quote from: Voodah on January 02, 2014, 08:08:56 PM

So I'm better off burning right now than at any other point in time right?

If you are confident in the project's success then you are better off burning ASAP. The reward for early investment is, however, not arbitrary: there is definite risk associated witha new project that has not been thoroughly bug tested, which may make some people forego investing until there is more consensus regarding the project's viability.

Voodah

sr. member

Activity: 266

Merit: 250

So I'm better off burning right now than at any other point in time right?

PhantomPhreak

sr. member

Activity: 476

Merit: 300

Counterparty Chief Scientist and Co-Founder

Quote from: btc4ever on January 02, 2014, 07:53:20 PM

Running setup.py on ubuntu, get this error:

Quote

Setting up sqlite3 (3.7.13-1) ...
Processing triggers for libc-bin ...
ldconfig deferred processing now taking place
sudo: pip3: command not found
2014-01-02 16:46:30,314|ERROR: Command failed: 'sudo pip3 install appdirs==1.2.0'

$ sudo pip-3.2 install appdirs==1.2.0
Requirement already satisfied (use --upgrade to upgrade): appdirs==1.2.0 in /usr/local/lib/python3.2/dist-packages
Cleaning up...

$ ./counterpartyd.py
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "./counterpartyd.py", line 17, in
import dateutil.parser
ImportError: No module named dateutil.parser

$ sudo pip-3.2 install dateutil
Downloading/unpacking dateutil
Real name of requirement dateutil is dateutil
Could not find any downloads that satisfy the requirement dateutil
No distributions at all found for dateutil

so setup.py fails on pip3 appdirs, counterpartyd complains about missing dateutil, and I'm not sure how to install dateutil.

Hmm. I think that dateutil is called python-dateutil in pip.

btc4ever

sr. member

Activity: 321

Merit: 250

Running setup.py on ubuntu, get this error:

Quote

Setting up sqlite3 (3.7.13-1) ...
Processing triggers for libc-bin ...
ldconfig deferred processing now taking place
sudo: pip3: command not found
2014-01-02 16:46:30,314|ERROR: Command failed: 'sudo pip3 install appdirs==1.2.0'

$ sudo pip-3.2 install appdirs==1.2.0
Requirement already satisfied (use --upgrade to upgrade): appdirs==1.2.0 in /usr/local/lib/python3.2/dist-packages
Cleaning up...

$ ./counterpartyd.py
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "./counterpartyd.py", line 17, in
import dateutil.parser
ImportError: No module named dateutil.parser

$ sudo pip-3.2 install dateutil
Downloading/unpacking dateutil
Real name of requirement dateutil is dateutil
Could not find any downloads that satisfy the requirement dateutil
No distributions at all found for dateutil

so setup.py fails on pip3 appdirs, counterpartyd complains about missing dateutil, and I'm not sure how to install dateutil.

btc4ever

sr. member

Activity: 321

Merit: 250

Geez, is there a python library someone has written somewhere that you guys don't import?

PhantomPhreak

sr. member

Activity: 476

Merit: 300

Counterparty Chief Scientist and Co-Founder

Quote from: btc4ever on January 02, 2014, 06:41:40 PM

Can you provide an example of how one currency would be traded for another via the distributed exchange mechanism?

Is it like entering a limit order that matches against other orders? Or more like a 2 party + escrow system, possibly via multisig?

I'm a command-line guy, so I'd be curious to see examples of actual commands used.

And how can I cancel the order?

No problem. It's a lot like a limit order.

Let's say that you want to sell 10 XCP for GOLD shares (particular IOUs for gold) at a price of at least 2 GOLD/XCP. You'd run this command:

./counterpartyd.py [--testnet] [--rpc-password=PASSWORD] order --from=ADDRESS --give-quantity=10 --give-asset=XCP --get-quantity=20 --get-asset=GOLD --expiration=WHATEVER

If there are any orders already on the books selling GOLD for XCP at a price above 2 GOLD/XCP, then your order will immediately be matched to the order at the best price (for you), but at *that* price (which would still meet your criteria). As soon as an order is matched, it is settled, and the GOLD is in your wallet. The 'give' funds in any open order are held in escrow by the network, as it were, as long as the order is open.

You cancel an order simply by [attempting to] accept it yourself. There's a chance that you won't get there in time, but that chance exists either way, that is if there were a 'cancel order' command, and it is the same in both cases. ~~There isn't any cancelling of orders. It would be very easy to implement, though.~~ EDIT: Cancelling orders and bets is now possible.

If you're buying or selling BTC, there's an extra step of finalizing a matched order, because Counterparty can't forcibly put your BTC in escrow. Every such order match for which you owe someone BTC is displayed on the 'market' screen (./counterparty market, along with its 'order match ID', which is the only argument to the 'btcpay' command. That command will figure out out many BTC you owe for the order in question and it will send it along its way automatically.

Topic: [ANN][XCP] Counterparty - Pioneering Peer-to-Peer Finance - Official Thread - page 658. (Read 1276774 times)