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Topic: [ANN][XCP] Counterparty - Pioneering Peer-to-Peer Finance - Official Thread - page 660. (Read 1276774 times)

full member
Activity: 216
Merit: 100

While it is true that Mastercoin has already been around for several months and has lots of money, it has not yet succeeded in implementing any of the features proposed in the White Paper. Counterparty on the other hand is being released full-featured, though users should expect bugs (and report them!) and for the time being only run counterpartyd on testnet (except to burn real BTC to obtain real XCP, which must be done on mainnet).
legendary
Activity: 1498
Merit: 1000
I am stupid, I have a mac and Bitcoin Qt - how do I invest for dummies?
sr. member
Activity: 476
Merit: 300
Counterparty Chief Scientist and Co-Founder
Update: I just pushed an updated version of counterpartyd to the GitHub repo which implements a new method for burning BTC for XCP: now counterpartyd sends the BTC to the following obviously unspendable addresses: '1CounterpartyXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXUWLpVr' (mainnet) and 'mvCounterpartyXXXXXXXXXXXXXXW24Hef' (testnet). Obviously this fix hasn't had much testing, but the implementation was simple enough that I feel relatively confident that it will work. If anyone sees a problem with this new method, please let us know Wink.

Warning: You must use counterpartyd to send the BTC or the burn will not be recognized. Follow the instructions on Read the Docs.

Thanks for your help, bootch.
donator
Activity: 1218
Merit: 1015
Isn't this implementation of proof-of-burn exceptionally dangerous? It can be infinitely inflated. You can't really invest in it and have to exchange it very quickly since value will be decreasing with adoption. Very interested in seeing how this plays out. Hard to wrap my head around all the different implications. Good job.

Burning (true burning, that is - not redistribution as in XCP implementation) itself is fascinating as it poses one of the greatest threats to the long-term survival of Bitcoin (with regards to it being the most-used). If people kept burning BTC, it could eventually be the case that a true-burning XCP simply takes over BTC as a more fungible and otherwise-useful alternative. As is, it has a symbiotic relationship with BTC, but this could easily be changed. Very, very interesting stuff you guys've done.

The burn period is limited to one month, so the inflation can only last that long. And it looks like we'll have to actually destroy coins to avoid the attack that bootch found above.
Oh - completely misread what you wrote earlier. That makes more sense. Embarrassed Thought there was a kind of 50% linearly-decreasing bonus to burned BTC and in a month, BTC is exchanged 1:1 for XCP. Will read readme before making more of an ass out of myself. Cheesy
full member
Activity: 216
Merit: 100
Isn't this implementation of proof-of-burn exceptionally dangerous? It can be infinitely inflated. You can't really invest in it and have to exchange it very quickly since value will be decreasing with adoption. Very interested in seeing how this plays out. Hard to wrap my head around all the different implications. Good job.

Burning (true burning, that is - not redistribution as in XCP implementation) itself is fascinating as it poses one of the greatest threats to the long-term survival of Bitcoin (with regards to it being the most-used). If people kept burning BTC, it could eventually be the case that a true-burning XCP simply takes over BTC as a more fungible and otherwise-useful alternative. As is, it has a symbiotic relationship with BTC, but this could easily be changed. Very, very interesting stuff you guys've done.
Isn't this implementation of proof-of-burn exceptionally dangerous? It can be infinitely inflated. You can't really invest in it and have to exchange it very quickly since value will be decreasing with adoption. Very interested in seeing how this plays out. Hard to wrap my head around all the different implications. Good job.

Burning (true burning, that is - not redistribution as in XCP implementation) itself is fascinating as it poses one of the greatest threats to the long-term survival of Bitcoin (with regards to it being the most-used). If people kept burning BTC, it could eventually be the case that a true-burning XCP simply takes over BTC as a more fungible and otherwise-useful alternative. As is, it has a symbiotic relationship with BTC, but this could easily be changed. Very, very interesting stuff you guys've done.

Thanks for your balanced and supportive comments. Yes, another user has brought the dangers of our proof-of-burn implementation to our attention and we are fixing it right now. From now on BTC will be burned by being sent to an unspendable address.

Our goal was to make the protocol as general and simple as possible; there are only five primary functions within XCP: 'send', 'issuance', 'order', 'broadcast', and 'bet'.
For example, I don't think it is obvious that to create both an asset ID and a currency you use the 'issuance' function and that in turn to sell that asset/currency you put up an 'order'. It's things like that that make it hard really to catalog all of the different uses of Counterparty; we may have missed some ourselves!

I agree with your that in general burning poses a real threat to BTC in the long term, but I equally agree that XCP as it stands has a symbiotic relationship with BTC. IMHO, as long as protocol layers sit on top of BTC, BTC is safe; you shouldn't saw off the branch you're sitting on, and I don't think users will. If nothing else, there is a lot of vested interest in the success of BTC.
sr. member
Activity: 476
Merit: 300
Counterparty Chief Scientist and Co-Founder
Isn't this implementation of proof-of-burn exceptionally dangerous? It can be infinitely inflated. You can't really invest in it and have to exchange it very quickly since value will be decreasing with adoption. Very interested in seeing how this plays out. Hard to wrap my head around all the different implications. Good job.

Burning (true burning, that is - not redistribution as in XCP implementation) itself is fascinating as it poses one of the greatest threats to the long-term survival of Bitcoin (with regards to it being the most-used). If people kept burning BTC, it could eventually be the case that a true-burning XCP simply takes over BTC as a more fungible and otherwise-useful alternative. As is, it has a symbiotic relationship with BTC, but this could easily be changed. Very, very interesting stuff you guys've done.

The burn period is limited to one month, so the inflation can only last that long. And it looks like we'll have to actually destroy coins to avoid the attack that bootch found above.
sr. member
Activity: 476
Merit: 300
Counterparty Chief Scientist and Co-Founder
How is the BTC burned?  Does that mean I lose the BTC forever?  How is this accomplished, technically?

The BTC are given to Bitcoin miners in fees. That makes them impossible to get back.
So, if XCP will become popular, any pool, ghash.io for example, easily can create infinite quantity of XCP with such "burning" of BTC.
Scheme is very simple:
Code:
1)create burning transaction
2)don't distribute it over the network
3)get back our btc as miners
4)get xcp as burners
5)???????
6)PROFIT
Am i right?

Hmm. You might be, indeed. I didn't think of that.

We may need to switch to destroying coins by sending them to an unspendable address.

I'm patching counterpartyd right now to switch over to this new burn method, which, I think, is necessary. Thanks for the tip, bootch.

Of course, don't burn on mainnet with the old way yet (the burn period hasn't actually started, though)!
donator
Activity: 1218
Merit: 1015
Isn't this implementation of proof-of-burn exceptionally dangerous? It can be infinitely inflated. You can't really invest in it and have to exchange it very quickly since value will be decreasing with adoption. Very interested in seeing how this plays out. Hard to wrap my head around all the different implications. Good job.

Burning (true burning, that is - not redistribution as in XCP implementation) itself is fascinating as it poses one of the greatest threats to the long-term survival of Bitcoin (with regards to it being the most-used). If people kept burning BTC, it could eventually be the case that a true-burning XCP simply takes over BTC as a more fungible and otherwise-useful alternative. As is, it has a symbiotic relationship with BTC, but this could easily be changed. Very, very interesting stuff you guys've done.
newbie
Activity: 29
Merit: 0
How does XCP compare with MSC?

Two different projects with different approaches.
legendary
Activity: 1232
Merit: 1001
How does XCP compare with MSC?
full member
Activity: 216
Merit: 100
Can someone make a flowchart or a diagram of how this works?

Mastercoin has made a good diagram which, I believe, fits how XCP interacts with BTC and user-created assets well:

https://github.com/mastercoin-MSC/spec/blob/master/images/layers.png
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1001
Can someone make a flowchart or a diagram of how this works?
sr. member
Activity: 476
Merit: 300
Counterparty Chief Scientist and Co-Founder
Counterparty Announcement

The code being released here is alpha-quality and under heavy development. Expect to encounter major bugs, including loss of funds. (Please report them when you do!)

The Counterparty protocol has not yet been finalized! You may lose your money if it changes!
N.B. This thread is self-moderated not to avoid critical comments, but just to keep it free of absolute nonsense.

what do you mean you may lose your money if it changes?

It's the same as any other cryptocurrency. If Bitcoin's protocol changed, you could lose your money, too. Of course, Counterparty is significantly less mature!
full member
Activity: 216
Merit: 100
I think that the ability of getting XCP with proof-of-burn should be postponed to the time when there will be a stable client. It will help the distribution of the coin. If not there will be another distributed exchange with large-holders(who risked their money into a thing that didn't worked at the time) which will be very unhealthy for the counterparty system.

The problem with postponing proof-of-burn is that, since Counterparty is open-source, it is highly probable that someone else will just take the code and start the proof-of-burn. There isn't a perfect solution, so we have chosen what we think is the best solution.

For those who are willing to take on the risk of using the unstable client, there is an early-entrance bonus (50% with a linear decrease over the course of roughly a month). Again, this is not to say there isn't risk, we are just trying to reward those who are willing to take on the risk.
newbie
Activity: 29
Merit: 0
Counterparty Announcement

The code being released here is alpha-quality and under heavy development. Expect to encounter major bugs, including loss of funds. (Please report them when you do!)

The Counterparty protocol has not yet been finalized! You may lose your money if it changes!
N.B. This thread is self-moderated not to avoid critical comments, but just to keep it free of absolute nonsense.

what do you mean you may lose your money if it changes?


This is alpha software launching today and you may use testnet for testing, but we've enabled mainnet functionality as well. We have to put a warning on there for the brave souls who wish to try out the current functionality while we are an alpha platform.
sr. member
Activity: 476
Merit: 300
Counterparty Chief Scientist and Co-Founder
How is the BTC burned?  Does that mean I lose the BTC forever?  How is this accomplished, technically?

The BTC are given to Bitcoin miners in fees. That makes them impossible to get back.
So, if XCP will become popular, any pool, ghash.io for example, easily can create infinite quantity of XCP with such "burning" of BTC.
Scheme is very simple:
Code:
1)create burning transaction
2)don't distribute it over the network
3)get back our btc as miners
4)get xcp as burners
5)???????
6)PROFIT
Am i right?

Hmm. You might be, indeed. I didn't think of that.

We may need to switch to destroying coins by sending them to an unspendable address.
full member
Activity: 140
Merit: 100
Counterparty Announcement

The code being released here is alpha-quality and under heavy development. Expect to encounter major bugs, including loss of funds. (Please report them when you do!)

The Counterparty protocol has not yet been finalized! You may lose your money if it changes!
N.B. This thread is self-moderated not to avoid critical comments, but just to keep it free of absolute nonsense.

what do you mean you may lose your money if it changes?
newbie
Activity: 46
Merit: 0
I think that the ability of getting XCP with proof-of-burn should be postponed to the time when there will be a stable client. It will help the distribution of the coin. If not there will be another distributed exchange with large-holders(who risked their money into a thing that didn't worked at the time) which will be very unhealthy for the counterparty system.
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