Topic: any good bitcoin trader accepting PayPal? (Read 2774 times)
Just use IvanRussia of LocalBitcoins. He accepts Paypal payments and has done more than 900 successful trades so far. I don't know how he manages to avoid getting conned, but he is a very trusted seller.
There is another thread with some nasty details about selling cryptocoins or any other non-reversible payment system for paypal: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/beware-of-paypal-and-other-reversible-transfer-services-14632
It's a sticker from the owner of the forum at the currency exchange subforum.
It's a sticker from the owner of the forum at the currency exchange subforum.
I've used Virwox before a few times without any problems, but the rates arn't always the best.
There are other places, I think some guys on localbitcoins do.
Why does it have to be paypal? Sureley if you have a paypal a/c you have a bank a/c too.
If anyone gets a moment take a look at my website I made, I have been learning HTML for 2 months and would like some advice on it please:
simplycoin.co.uk
Check it out and let me know.
Cheers!
There are other places, I think some guys on localbitcoins do.
Why does it have to be paypal? Sureley if you have a paypal a/c you have a bank a/c too.
If anyone gets a moment take a look at my website I made, I have been learning HTML for 2 months and would like some advice on it please:
simplycoin.co.uk
Check it out and let me know.
Cheers!
there is a thread cited on newbie readme about paypal issues.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/offering-paypal-for-bitcoin-youre-likely-to-be-labeled-a-scammer-read-why-164254
Quoting the first post:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/offering-paypal-for-bitcoin-youre-likely-to-be-labeled-a-scammer-read-why-164254
Quoting the first post:
There have been an increasing number of posts from recently registered users wanting to buy bitcoins with PayPal. While new users may indeed be enthusiastic about Bitcoin and be accustomed to using PayPal for prior purchases, this type of request is also exactly what scammers do to steal bitcoins. It is relatively simple to charge back or dispute any PayPal payment after receiving irrevocable bitcoins, and scam purchases are used as a way to empty stolen PayPal accounts.
Traditional payment networks (including PayPal) suffer inherent weaknesses:
Bitcoin has none of these problems:
Why is it difficult to purchase Bitcoins with your old-fashioned money?
If this is the fault of Bitcoin, it is because Bitcoin is too good. If you receive a payment with Bitcoin, you can be 100% sure that the money is yours and it can't be disputed or taken back out of your wallet. PayPal, Credit cards, ACH checking transfer and money wires, Chase Quickpay, Dwolla, and most any other banking payments, however, can be reversed - they are less trustworthy than the Bitcoins you are trying to buy.
This is why even Bitcoin exchanges have rigorous verification procedures - they need to verify your identity thoroughly, not because of Bitcoin, but because they are taking your government currency, transferred through banks and payment processors, which is fundamentally problematic. Exchanges that only deal with Bitcoin-based virtual currencies (such as Bitcoin to Namecoin) have no such identity requirements.
In addition, PayPal specifically disallows currency exchanges, and are Bitcoin-hostile. When you complain that you were ripped off, it's just as likely your account will be frozen.
Prohibited Activities
You may not use the PayPal service for activities that:
...
relate to transactions that (a) show the personal information of third parties in violation of applicable law, (b) support pyramid or ponzi schemes, matrix programs, other "get rich quick" schemes or certain multi-level marketing programs, (c) are associated with purchases of annuities or lottery contracts, lay-away systems, off-shore banking or transactions to finance or refinance debts funded by a credit card, (d) are for the sale of certain items before the seller has control or possession of the item, (e) are by payment processors to collect payments on behalf of merchants, (f), are associated with the sale of traveler's checks or money orders, (h) involve currency exchanges or check cashing businesses, or (i) involve certain credit repair, debt settlement services, credit transactions or insurance activities.
So how can you obtain bitcoins, if nobody on the Internet can tell the difference between you and a foreign crime syndicate? If you don't wish to go through the lengthy verification procedures on exchanges, I recommend you first investigate local traders who are willing to exchange bitcoins in person. Sites such as https://localbitcoins.com/ or http://www.tradebitcoin.com/ may help you find local Bitcoin users. Also, Bitcoin is for commerce - sell something and accept Bitcoin!
Traditional payment networks (including PayPal) suffer inherent weaknesses:
- Some payment fraud is unavoidable,
- Completely non-reversible transactions are not possible; payment processors are involved in disputes,
- Identity fraud and remote account takeover using stolen credentials are possible,
- Payment processors can block funds and freeze accounts,
- You must provide your credit card or account number to sites, which can be stolen by hackers to spend your money.
Bitcoin has none of these problems:
- Confirmed Bitcoin payments are absolutely trustable,
- Payments are non-reversible; money cannot be recalled by the sender,
- Identity theft is a non-issue - payment recipients don't need to obtain the identity of buyers or store personal information to take payments,
- Nobody else can interfere with your Bitcoin balance or your ability to send or receive money,
- You are in control of your money - when you send a payment, the recipient or hackers cannot make other fraudulent withdraws from your wallet.
Why is it difficult to purchase Bitcoins with your old-fashioned money?
If this is the fault of Bitcoin, it is because Bitcoin is too good. If you receive a payment with Bitcoin, you can be 100% sure that the money is yours and it can't be disputed or taken back out of your wallet. PayPal, Credit cards, ACH checking transfer and money wires, Chase Quickpay, Dwolla, and most any other banking payments, however, can be reversed - they are less trustworthy than the Bitcoins you are trying to buy.
This is why even Bitcoin exchanges have rigorous verification procedures - they need to verify your identity thoroughly, not because of Bitcoin, but because they are taking your government currency, transferred through banks and payment processors, which is fundamentally problematic. Exchanges that only deal with Bitcoin-based virtual currencies (such as Bitcoin to Namecoin) have no such identity requirements.
In addition, PayPal specifically disallows currency exchanges, and are Bitcoin-hostile. When you complain that you were ripped off, it's just as likely your account will be frozen.
Quote from: PayPal Acceptable Use Agreement
Prohibited Activities
You may not use the PayPal service for activities that:
...
relate to transactions that (a) show the personal information of third parties in violation of applicable law, (b) support pyramid or ponzi schemes, matrix programs, other "get rich quick" schemes or certain multi-level marketing programs, (c) are associated with purchases of annuities or lottery contracts, lay-away systems, off-shore banking or transactions to finance or refinance debts funded by a credit card, (d) are for the sale of certain items before the seller has control or possession of the item, (e) are by payment processors to collect payments on behalf of merchants, (f), are associated with the sale of traveler's checks or money orders, (h) involve currency exchanges or check cashing businesses, or (i) involve certain credit repair, debt settlement services, credit transactions or insurance activities.
So how can you obtain bitcoins, if nobody on the Internet can tell the difference between you and a foreign crime syndicate? If you don't wish to go through the lengthy verification procedures on exchanges, I recommend you first investigate local traders who are willing to exchange bitcoins in person. Sites such as https://localbitcoins.com/ or http://www.tradebitcoin.com/ may help you find local Bitcoin users. Also, Bitcoin is for commerce - sell something and accept Bitcoin!
The fees ain't a problem. But since we have to do the currency conversion two times, and the trade volume is generally low, sometimes we are forced to buy Bitcoins at a considerable premium.
The fees are a big reason why I don't bother using the Virwox trade route. As much as I'd like to buy BTC with my PP it's just far too costly to bother (you lose something like 5% last time I did the calcs) and to me that's really not worth it. Easier to do a F2F transaction/bank transfer with less fees and no one worrying about chargebacks.
Virwox is a good choice, used them pretty much all of the time. Haven't have any issues with them. However, do take note that their fees are really high. I guess its mainly due to the fact that it's difficulty to prevent paypal charge backs.
The fees ain't a problem. But since we have to do the currency conversion two times, and the trade volume is generally low, sometimes we are forced to buy Bitcoins at a considerable premium.
chargeback is a big problem, even for legit and not btc business. They receive the coins, then chargeback saying they didn't received the coins, and you ends up without coins and without money, crying in your bed before sleep
Virwox is a good choice, used them pretty much all of the time. Haven't have any issues with them. However, do take note that their fees are really high. I guess its mainly due to the fact that it's difficulty to prevent paypal charge backs.
The fees ain't a problem. But since we have to do the currency conversion two times, and the trade volume is generally low, sometimes we are forced to buy Bitcoins at a considerable premium.
Virwox is a good choice, used them pretty much all of the time. Haven't have any issues with them. However, do take note that their fees are really high. I guess its mainly due to the fact that it's difficulty to prevent paypal charge backs.
How come some do accept paypal? I am confused as I am new to bitcoin.
A few people accept Paypal because for them its easier than having to arrange a bank deposit/wire transfer/face to face cash exchange. But in general those that do will only deal with long time reputable members so they can be pretty sure they won't get chargebacked. You'd be better off assuming no one will accept PP - those that do won't deal with newbies and the likes.
Oh okay, that makes sense. Yeah that sucks if the person did the charge back though.
How come some do accept paypal? I am confused as I am new to bitcoin.
A few people accept Paypal because for them its easier than having to arrange a bank deposit/wire transfer/face to face cash exchange. But in general those that do will only deal with long time reputable members so they can be pretty sure they won't get chargebacked. You'd be better off assuming no one will accept PP - those that do won't deal with newbies and the likes.
No one around here accepts paypal for long cause they usually get burned within a few trades.
How come some do accept paypal? I am confused as I am new to bitcoin.
No one around here accepts paypal for long cause they usually get burned within a few trades.
You can try to use VirWox to buy SecondLife Dollars with PayPal that you can then exchange (in the same place) for BTC. But you will have to pay a bit extra for this due to commissions.
You say it is possible to reverse any transaction with Paypal? I'd like to know how, because it seems to me that Paypal is in bed with the scammers and will rule in favor of the seller of a digital good if you were stupid enough to use paypal to pay for it. This is my experience anyway. If there is a way around it, I'd love to know what it is in order to get my money back.
They use a credit card to fund Paypal, and then dispute the charge on the credit card. The credit card company does a chargeback and Paypal will have to comply or it will eat the loss.
So you have to have a credit card as your back up funding. I had a bank account, so I suppose I may be able to reverse the transaction with the bank then.
You say it is possible to reverse any transaction with Paypal? I'd like to know how, because it seems to me that Paypal is in bed with the scammers and will rule in favor of the seller of a digital good if you were stupid enough to use paypal to pay for it. This is my experience anyway. If there is a way around it, I'd love to know what it is in order to get my money back.
They use a credit card to fund Paypal, and then dispute the charge on the credit card. The credit card company does a chargeback and Paypal will have to comply or it will eat the loss.
You say it is possible to reverse any transaction with Paypal? I'd like to know how, because it seems to me that Paypal is in bed with the scammers and will rule in favor of the seller of a digital good if you were stupid enough to use paypal to pay for it. This is my experience anyway. If there is a way around it, I'd love to know what it is in order to get my money back.
it is possible, ha can use virtual card
If he just puts blind trust in people he would be repeatedly scammed.
I think the guy is doing something very intelligent so that he is not affected by the Paypal refunds. May be he has registered to Paypal with someone else's credit card and bank account.
478 trades without getting scammed means he is not a fool.
Same. Once they find someone accepts paypal it's quickly exploited until they use it no more.
I have never traded with him. But he has so far conducted 478 successful trades, including some high-volume ones. If he was frequently scammed, then he might have stopped with 20 or 25 trades. That didn't happened. So all I can say is that this guy must be really intelligent. He must be taking enough precautions to not get scammed.
If he just puts blind trust in people he would be repeatedly scammed.
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