I have to run now, but if you are in London or have contacts there maybe you could find a lawer, then we could try to contact every Bitcoin Cloud Services customers in order to could go forward with the legal process.
If not have any contacts I could talk with my brother in order to could find me a lawer in London. Is better if we could go all togueter.
Topic: Anyone Have Problems With Bitcoin Cloud Services - Is This A Scam - page 2. (Read 6377 times)
June 09, 2015, 07:31:25 AM
June 09, 2015, 07:24:13 AM
Here Some Bitcoin Talk about Esteban Amador Soto Martinez
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/scam-report-bitcoincloudhashingcom-414314
June 09, 2015, 07:22:00 AM
so what, we now gabriel and esteban.. what can we do?
June 09, 2015, 07:17:21 AM
Here some information that I found from Digiconomist - May,20 2015....
In the article of Digiconomist they wrote about the owners,
Verified Owner : Company was founded by known scammer (previously involved in a cloud mining scam operation) Esteban Amador Soto Martinez (still active as Company Secretary). Currently owned by Gabriel Kleiman, a man without any real history before 2014 despite supposedly already being 31 years old at the time (LinkedIn profile only lists the vague title of Bitcoin entrepreneur since 2011).
Business Registration Registered in the UK with company number 08935510.
http://digiconomist.net/fraud-risk-assessment-bitcoincloudservices
REVIEWS » PERSONAL FINANCE » ECONOMICSINVESTING & TRADINGANALYSISOTHER
Home / Fraud Risk Assessments / Fraud Risk Assessment: Bitcoin Cloud Services
Fraud Risk Assessment: Bitcoin Cloud Services
Digiconomist May 20, 2015 Fraud Risk Assessments No Comments
Bitcoin Cloud Services (bitcoincloudservices.com) was launched in March 2014 providing Bitcoin cloud mining services from the United Kingdom.
Persuasion
Total Flags: 4 (3 Warnings = 1 Flag)
Phantom Riches N/A
Scarcity Makes use of limited time special offers.
Source Credibility N/A
Social Proof Referral program awarding 10 percent commission.
Reciprocity Offers large discounts such as 2 year contracts for the price of 1 year contracts.
Products
Guaranteed Return N/A
High Return / Low Risk N/A
Overly Consistent, Positive Returns N/A
External Risk Insurance N/A
Hardware Equipment
Public Mining Address No
Pictures of Mining Equipment Yes
Secretive or Complex Equipment Users buy GH/s lacking any significant description of underlying equipment.
Service
Website Available Yes
Website Registration Details Registered on March 9, 2014
Website Design Good
Grammar on Website Good
Payments Options Bitcoin only
Service Disruptions & Unbusinesslike Conduct N/A
Contact Information Present (address and telephone number)
Business
Verified Address 46-48 East Smithfield
Tower Bridge Business Centre Suite 313
E1W 1AW
London, United Kingdom
Verified Owner Company was founded by known scammer (previously involved in a cloud mining scam operation) Esteban Amador Soto Martinez (still active as Company Secretary). Currently owned by Gabriel Kleiman, a man without any real history before 2014 despite supposedly already being 31 years old at the time (LinkedIn profile only lists the vague title of Bitcoin entrepreneur since 2011).
Business Registration Registered in the UK with company number 08935510.
Independent Audits None
Note that items with a warning instead of a flag indicate that these could occur at a legitimate company. For example, legitimate companies will normally try to persuade you into buying their products. Multiple warnings will, however, still trigger a flag. A description for the listed items is provided below. This list is meant to assist with identifying obvious scams, and therefore does not provide any guarantees that a company is truly legitimate.
Phantom Riches
The most common tactic used by fraudsters is called “phantom riches”. By dangling the prospect of wealth such as “big payoffs”, the scam artist tries to get you to stop thinking logically.
Scarcity
Using the fear of missing out, fraudsters create a false sense of urgency with statements such as “last chance” or “only so few available”. This causes people to agree hastily, before even having the opportunity to think about what they’re doing.
Source Credibility
Persuasion is more likely when the source presents itself as being credible, expert and trustworthy. Common tactics used by scammers to make themselves look legitimate include using fake websites or hacked emails and pretending to be someone they are not. Alternatively, sources can also be external with claims such as “Warren Buffet has already invested in this”.
Social Proof
Fraudsters take advantage of herd behavior by creating the illusion of consensus or social proof that the investment is legitimate with claims that “everybody is already doing it”, or referral programs in which members encourage their friends and associates to invest as well. This automatically triggers something in the head that says: “if everybody [or someone from the inner circle] wants it, it must be good”.
Reciprocity
A business is likely to receive far more of our trust when it provides a lot of free value, because of the rule of reciprocity which causes us to tend to feel obligated to return favors after people do favors for us
Guaranteed Return
All investments carry some degree of risk, so a guaranteed profit is a clear red flag. A valid question would be why an organization would try to sell such a scheme instead of using it to get rich themselves.
High Return / Low Risk
Like a guaranteed return, a high return / low risk investment opportunity also defies the common risk-return relationship. The best advice is an old one: “if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is”.
Overly Consistent, Positive Returns
Cryptocurrency markets are among the most volatile markets, hence the performance of any related product or service is also expected to fluctuate.
External Risk Insurance
The fraudster may present some external risk insurance for the investment in order to add to its credibility. In reality, insurance is only seldom acquired and guarantees typically lack substance. Dummy companies are often used to act as the guarantor or insurer.
Public Mining Address
A cloud mining company must have a public cryptocurrency address in order to participate in the mining process. There is no reason for a legitimate company not to disclose this.
Pictures of Mining Equipment
Cloud Mining companies should be able to provide some pictures of the products they are selling besides any textual descriptions.
Secretive or Complex Equipment
Even in the world of cryptocurrencies one should be skeptical about special competitive advantages without any proper disclosure, or when the information is incomprehensible or incomplete. Too often only the positive elements are accentuated.
Website Available
Considering the importance of domains and websites in the internet age, there is almost no reason for a legit company not to have one.
Website Registration Details
Very few scam websites survive longer than one year, so domains are generally registered for just one year unless otherwise required for the specific domain. For the same reason, websites created less than one year ago should be considered suspicious.
Website Design
Amateurish, cluttered and disorganized websites can point to a scam as many scam sites use text and images from legit websites and other sources which may not work together very well.
Grammar on Website
Many scammers have limited English proficiency.
Payments Options
Even though cryptocurrency payment options are logical for a cryptocurrency company, it is also very convenient for scammers as the recipient essentially remains anonymous. The same goes for services such as Western Union and Moneygram. Hence a lack of alternative payment options should still be considered a warning signal.
Service Disruptions & Unbusinesslike Conduct
Especially Ponzi scheme promotors will encourage participants to “roll over” their investment. These schemes are not very fond of investors cashing out, which may lead to difficulties receiving payments and a non-responsive or difficult to reach customer service.
Contact Information
Legitimate companies have very little reason not to list their contact information.
Business Verification
First, you should never hand your hard-earned money over without knowing where it is going. Second, you should do a background check to avoid handing it to a known scammer. Be weary of people without an online identity. Scammers will typically try to hide their identity or conceal their true identity to avoid being easily discovered.
Independent Audits
Audits certainly do not root out every instance of fraud, but auditors do have a responsibility to detect errors or fraud in the company’s financial statements.
Related Posts
5 Fraud Risk Assessment: BitcoinMaker 0 Fraud Risk Assessment: Cloudminr 0 Fraud Risk Assessment: BTC Slice 4 Fraud Risk Assessment: CoIntellect
In the article of Digiconomist they wrote about the owners,
Verified Owner : Company was founded by known scammer (previously involved in a cloud mining scam operation) Esteban Amador Soto Martinez (still active as Company Secretary). Currently owned by Gabriel Kleiman, a man without any real history before 2014 despite supposedly already being 31 years old at the time (LinkedIn profile only lists the vague title of Bitcoin entrepreneur since 2011).
Business Registration Registered in the UK with company number 08935510.
http://digiconomist.net/fraud-risk-assessment-bitcoincloudservices
REVIEWS » PERSONAL FINANCE » ECONOMICSINVESTING & TRADINGANALYSISOTHER
Home / Fraud Risk Assessments / Fraud Risk Assessment: Bitcoin Cloud Services
Fraud Risk Assessment: Bitcoin Cloud Services
Digiconomist May 20, 2015 Fraud Risk Assessments No Comments
Bitcoin Cloud Services (bitcoincloudservices.com) was launched in March 2014 providing Bitcoin cloud mining services from the United Kingdom.
Persuasion
Total Flags: 4 (3 Warnings = 1 Flag)
Phantom Riches N/A
Scarcity Makes use of limited time special offers.
Source Credibility N/A
Social Proof Referral program awarding 10 percent commission.
Reciprocity Offers large discounts such as 2 year contracts for the price of 1 year contracts.
Products
Guaranteed Return N/A
High Return / Low Risk N/A
Overly Consistent, Positive Returns N/A
External Risk Insurance N/A
Hardware Equipment
Public Mining Address No
Pictures of Mining Equipment Yes
Secretive or Complex Equipment Users buy GH/s lacking any significant description of underlying equipment.
Service
Website Available Yes
Website Registration Details Registered on March 9, 2014
Website Design Good
Grammar on Website Good
Payments Options Bitcoin only
Service Disruptions & Unbusinesslike Conduct N/A
Contact Information Present (address and telephone number)
Business
Verified Address 46-48 East Smithfield
Tower Bridge Business Centre Suite 313
E1W 1AW
London, United Kingdom
Verified Owner Company was founded by known scammer (previously involved in a cloud mining scam operation) Esteban Amador Soto Martinez (still active as Company Secretary). Currently owned by Gabriel Kleiman, a man without any real history before 2014 despite supposedly already being 31 years old at the time (LinkedIn profile only lists the vague title of Bitcoin entrepreneur since 2011).
Business Registration Registered in the UK with company number 08935510.
Independent Audits None
Note that items with a warning instead of a flag indicate that these could occur at a legitimate company. For example, legitimate companies will normally try to persuade you into buying their products. Multiple warnings will, however, still trigger a flag. A description for the listed items is provided below. This list is meant to assist with identifying obvious scams, and therefore does not provide any guarantees that a company is truly legitimate.
Phantom Riches
The most common tactic used by fraudsters is called “phantom riches”. By dangling the prospect of wealth such as “big payoffs”, the scam artist tries to get you to stop thinking logically.
Scarcity
Using the fear of missing out, fraudsters create a false sense of urgency with statements such as “last chance” or “only so few available”. This causes people to agree hastily, before even having the opportunity to think about what they’re doing.
Source Credibility
Persuasion is more likely when the source presents itself as being credible, expert and trustworthy. Common tactics used by scammers to make themselves look legitimate include using fake websites or hacked emails and pretending to be someone they are not. Alternatively, sources can also be external with claims such as “Warren Buffet has already invested in this”.
Social Proof
Fraudsters take advantage of herd behavior by creating the illusion of consensus or social proof that the investment is legitimate with claims that “everybody is already doing it”, or referral programs in which members encourage their friends and associates to invest as well. This automatically triggers something in the head that says: “if everybody [or someone from the inner circle] wants it, it must be good”.
Reciprocity
A business is likely to receive far more of our trust when it provides a lot of free value, because of the rule of reciprocity which causes us to tend to feel obligated to return favors after people do favors for us
Guaranteed Return
All investments carry some degree of risk, so a guaranteed profit is a clear red flag. A valid question would be why an organization would try to sell such a scheme instead of using it to get rich themselves.
High Return / Low Risk
Like a guaranteed return, a high return / low risk investment opportunity also defies the common risk-return relationship. The best advice is an old one: “if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is”.
Overly Consistent, Positive Returns
Cryptocurrency markets are among the most volatile markets, hence the performance of any related product or service is also expected to fluctuate.
External Risk Insurance
The fraudster may present some external risk insurance for the investment in order to add to its credibility. In reality, insurance is only seldom acquired and guarantees typically lack substance. Dummy companies are often used to act as the guarantor or insurer.
Public Mining Address
A cloud mining company must have a public cryptocurrency address in order to participate in the mining process. There is no reason for a legitimate company not to disclose this.
Pictures of Mining Equipment
Cloud Mining companies should be able to provide some pictures of the products they are selling besides any textual descriptions.
Secretive or Complex Equipment
Even in the world of cryptocurrencies one should be skeptical about special competitive advantages without any proper disclosure, or when the information is incomprehensible or incomplete. Too often only the positive elements are accentuated.
Website Available
Considering the importance of domains and websites in the internet age, there is almost no reason for a legit company not to have one.
Website Registration Details
Very few scam websites survive longer than one year, so domains are generally registered for just one year unless otherwise required for the specific domain. For the same reason, websites created less than one year ago should be considered suspicious.
Website Design
Amateurish, cluttered and disorganized websites can point to a scam as many scam sites use text and images from legit websites and other sources which may not work together very well.
Grammar on Website
Many scammers have limited English proficiency.
Payments Options
Even though cryptocurrency payment options are logical for a cryptocurrency company, it is also very convenient for scammers as the recipient essentially remains anonymous. The same goes for services such as Western Union and Moneygram. Hence a lack of alternative payment options should still be considered a warning signal.
Service Disruptions & Unbusinesslike Conduct
Especially Ponzi scheme promotors will encourage participants to “roll over” their investment. These schemes are not very fond of investors cashing out, which may lead to difficulties receiving payments and a non-responsive or difficult to reach customer service.
Contact Information
Legitimate companies have very little reason not to list their contact information.
Business Verification
First, you should never hand your hard-earned money over without knowing where it is going. Second, you should do a background check to avoid handing it to a known scammer. Be weary of people without an online identity. Scammers will typically try to hide their identity or conceal their true identity to avoid being easily discovered.
Independent Audits
Audits certainly do not root out every instance of fraud, but auditors do have a responsibility to detect errors or fraud in the company’s financial statements.
Related Posts
5 Fraud Risk Assessment: BitcoinMaker 0 Fraud Risk Assessment: Cloudminr 0 Fraud Risk Assessment: BTC Slice 4 Fraud Risk Assessment: CoIntellect
June 09, 2015, 07:04:26 AM
i send them mail and no answer...and if you follow the payment address you can see they carried all bitcoins to another wallets...we are scammed..but they are legit we can ask lawyers..
June 09, 2015, 06:59:12 AM
They were making the payments in good way until two days ago.
Maybe they have some problems at the moment and they are trying to solve it !. In my opinion the good manner to handle the situation is to inform to their customers that they have some technical problems and they are working on it. They have to days in silence and is not good for the business and credibility.
Another reason for the delay could be that the mining difficultity is going down, then they have to increase the BTC payments and not to decrease the payments every 15 days..., maybe they based its commercial strategy in a going up mining difficulty, and then now exist a real problem.
Another reason is that the BTC price market is going down and some miners are not mining at these moments then the transactions are taking a lot of time.
I have heard a problem with the blockchain web page, maybe the handled the payments with the blockchain and it is posiible the delay problem.
Anyway they have to inform to the clients what is going on.
Maybe they have some problems at the moment and they are trying to solve it !. In my opinion the good manner to handle the situation is to inform to their customers that they have some technical problems and they are working on it. They have to days in silence and is not good for the business and credibility.
Another reason for the delay could be that the mining difficultity is going down, then they have to increase the BTC payments and not to decrease the payments every 15 days..., maybe they based its commercial strategy in a going up mining difficulty, and then now exist a real problem.
Another reason is that the BTC price market is going down and some miners are not mining at these moments then the transactions are taking a lot of time.
I have heard a problem with the blockchain web page, maybe the handled the payments with the blockchain and it is posiible the delay problem.
Anyway they have to inform to the clients what is going on.
June 09, 2015, 06:55:12 AM
they ran away i am sure, they left their office, you can check it :
https://www.google.com/maps/@51.508687,-0.06931,3a,75y,29.21h,62.44t/data=!3m5!1e1!3m3!1s_YgDs9upkogAAAQXIkcRhw!2e0!3e2?hl=tr
(copy and paste it to browser)
in 313 it was written BİTCOİN CLOUD SERVİCES, now 313 is occupied.
We need to hire a lawyer, and ask to England goverment, legit company isnt it.
https://www.google.com/maps/@51.508687,-0.06931,3a,75y,29.21h,62.44t/data=!3m5!1e1!3m3!1s_YgDs9upkogAAAQXIkcRhw!2e0!3e2?hl=tr
(copy and paste it to browser)
in 313 it was written BİTCOİN CLOUD SERVİCES, now 313 is occupied.
We need to hire a lawyer, and ask to England goverment, legit company isnt it.
June 09, 2015, 06:50:34 AM
i hope so because i ve more than 15TH/s
June 09, 2015, 06:07:26 AM
I think they're not scam. But I found an issue on their payment system and informed them about this. After that they stopped. Maybe they're fixing that and then they will continue. I hope they will. 
If they had some issues with the payment system then they should have posted about it on their official thread
No explanation on thread + Locking the thread + No response to customer mails =
I have 600 GHS on BCS, bought 200 GHS just three days ago. Hope they will resume payouts within the next 24 to 48 hours.
June 09, 2015, 05:47:19 AM
I think they're not scam. But I found an issue on their payment system and informed them about this. After that they stopped. Maybe they're fixing that and then they will continue. I hope they will.
June 08, 2015, 11:40:20 PM
No payouts and no response from support staff
Their official Bitcointalk thread has been locked, https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/ann-0014-btc-per-ghs-12-month-contract-wwwbitcoincloudservicescom-657647
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/2015-06-06-exclusive-bitcoin-cloud-mining-ponzi-bitcoin-cloud-services-bcs-1082338
SCAM
Their official Bitcointalk thread has been locked, https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/ann-0014-btc-per-ghs-12-month-contract-wwwbitcoincloudservicescom-657647
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/2015-06-06-exclusive-bitcoin-cloud-mining-ponzi-bitcoin-cloud-services-bcs-1082338
SCAM
June 08, 2015, 11:06:27 AM
not solved, where is the other topic could you please give the link.
Hello
The problem is resolved or not?
2 topic's about this website!
Also the owner is here and reply very hard
So this is means low support
Sorry for saying.
The problem is resolved or not?
2 topic's about this website!
Also the owner is here and reply very hard
So this is means low support
Sorry for saying.
first delay but its disturbing, admin could you please make an announcement about the delay...
No, we are not a scam.
I'm Gabriel CEO of Bitcoin Cloud Services and please feel free to send me an email to gabriel at bitcoincloudservices
I'm Gabriel CEO of Bitcoin Cloud Services and please feel free to send me an email to gabriel at bitcoincloudservices
So... why did payments stop today, did the ground under your feet get too hot? I have had it with scammers, literally every investment I have ever done in bitcoin turned out to be a disaster. From hardware that arrives late and doesn't work to cloudmining companies that so far have all turned out to be scammers.
What a shame of such good technology, seriously hope these assholes get what they deserve! For me, I'm done... selling what's left of my coins today.
September 27, 2014, 07:56:34 PM
Thank you I'll be expecting your email.
September 27, 2014, 03:05:57 PM
Thank you Gabriel for replying back here.
I posted here out of frustration that two voicemails left with the support phone line did not produce a call back.
Also two follow up emails to John Watt did not get replied to.
I looked at the blockchain info and the payment seems to be in limbo.
BitPay gave me the address and their payment forms were very confusing.
My plan was to have John on the phone while I did the transaction again.
As my phone calls and emails were not replied to I could not make that happen.
In the interest of not cluttering the forum with misc chatter I will follow up
directly with you, Gabriel, via email as you suggested.
I posted here out of frustration that two voicemails left with the support phone line did not produce a call back.
Also two follow up emails to John Watt did not get replied to.
I looked at the blockchain info and the payment seems to be in limbo.
BitPay gave me the address and their payment forms were very confusing.
My plan was to have John on the phone while I did the transaction again.
As my phone calls and emails were not replied to I could not make that happen.
In the interest of not cluttering the forum with misc chatter I will follow up
directly with you, Gabriel, via email as you suggested.
September 19, 2014, 07:54:57 PM
No, we are not a scam.
You did provide us a TXID and you claimed you sent the funds to an address, we got in contact with Bitpay and this address is not controlled by us or by Bitpay.com, our payment processor.
You sent the funds to a wrong address and it's obvious we can't cover you for it.
I copy here the conversation we had with Bitpay.
_____________________________
John Watt August 09, 2014 18:45
Hello.
A customer provided this transaction ID
4055e93b5a5bccac57df4e31894f7d562cd08da3bccfb13c3973286c1c726fdd
I don't see any record of this transaction in our account.
Can you please tell me if this transaction ID is associated to any of our invoices?
Thank you.
Mark Tur August 10, 2014 05:34
Hello John,
The transaction ID you provided me is not associated with any of our invoices, and the destination address of the BTC is not a BitPay address.
Let me know if there is anything else I can do to assist you further.
Thanks,
Mark Anton Tur
Client Operations Engineer
BitPay, Inc.
________________________
We have more than 500 happy customers and here is the TXID of our last payout
https://blockchain.info/tx/d9883edc2cb60eeb398f8c05da9d662b0f2488b01a796a8975a32bfb1c535f52
I'm Gabriel CEO of Bitcoin Cloud Services and please feel free to send me an email to gabriel at bitcoincloudservices
You did provide us a TXID and you claimed you sent the funds to an address, we got in contact with Bitpay and this address is not controlled by us or by Bitpay.com, our payment processor.
You sent the funds to a wrong address and it's obvious we can't cover you for it.
I copy here the conversation we had with Bitpay.
_____________________________
John Watt August 09, 2014 18:45
Hello.
A customer provided this transaction ID
4055e93b5a5bccac57df4e31894f7d562cd08da3bccfb13c3973286c1c726fdd
I don't see any record of this transaction in our account.
Can you please tell me if this transaction ID is associated to any of our invoices?
Thank you.
Mark Tur August 10, 2014 05:34
Hello John,
The transaction ID you provided me is not associated with any of our invoices, and the destination address of the BTC is not a BitPay address.
Let me know if there is anything else I can do to assist you further.
Thanks,
Mark Anton Tur
Client Operations Engineer
BitPay, Inc.
________________________
We have more than 500 happy customers and here is the TXID of our last payout
https://blockchain.info/tx/d9883edc2cb60eeb398f8c05da9d662b0f2488b01a796a8975a32bfb1c535f52
I'm Gabriel CEO of Bitcoin Cloud Services and please feel free to send me an email to gabriel at bitcoincloudservices
September 19, 2014, 10:01:38 AM
They are presumably in London.
I am in the process of looking for an Attorney, anyone want to join me ?
I purchased cloud hashing from them, the payment was never credited to my account.
The BTC payment went through BitPay.
BitPay says they don't have it either.
Emails and phone calls to Bitcoin Cloud Services are now not answered or called back.
I am in the process of looking for an Attorney, anyone want to join me ?
I purchased cloud hashing from them, the payment was never credited to my account.
The BTC payment went through BitPay.
BitPay says they don't have it either.
Emails and phone calls to Bitcoin Cloud Services are now not answered or called back.
Do you have the transaction ID to check it through the Blockchain? I've bought multiple contracts through them, including one on Monday and I've never had problems. If you log into your Bitcoin Cloud Services, does the purchase appear in the My Account section when you log in? It does take a few days to get your first payment but the important detail is to check that it lists your order and status when you click on My Account.
September 09, 2014, 11:01:04 PM
I think you are talking about https://www.bitcoincloudservices.com/product/bitcoin-cloud-mining-contract/
Was really curious about them but contracts are really dangerous in this business due to the exponential rate of increasing hashrate.
Several weeks later I found a better offer somewhere else, i think it was .0013 B/GH
I would stick with those 24 hour contracts.
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