Are betting companies using T&C against their customers

Dr.Bitcoin_Strange

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Quote from: Obari on June 01, 2023, 09:37:05 AM

Most times i think since most users don't take out time to read the terms and conditions of platform before jumping on it, most betting companies steal money from their customers with claims that they broke their terms and conditions and the case with the link above annoyed me so much because I felt the support term wasn't helpful enough as I was expecting them to point out the T&C that was broken to the player rather than just lock his account and seize his money.

Now I wish to know if these companies play on the weakness of their customers using T&C to rob them and has anyone else experienced this ?

Offcus support will not answer that question; if they do, the answer can be, "Go back to the T&C, read carefully, and you will get to know what your violation is." You know that since some terms and conditions are usually very long with crowded words, it's just so tiring to read, so most people will not look through them very carefully before signing up to bet, and the disappointment that comes along with not studying those t&c is what users will face at the end. One thing I can also say is that gamblers should just use a gambling platform that has a good reputation so that they don't have to lose their funds all the time. For a long time now, I have been using a few casinos and have not really experienced any bad situation with them.

Well, unless for some scam casino, if not, I don't see reasons why any reputable casino would just want to tarnish their image over some situations like that, while they know that if they become so phishing, it would give them a bad name and they would lose some customers.

Obari

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Quote from: Lucius on June 01, 2023, 10:12:53 AM

@Obari, maybe you could have asked this question in this topic Using ToS against users normal? considering that it is on the first page of this board. I believe that you can find some very good answers to your question there.

I never noticed any similar topic of such and I really felt bothered at the rate at which this casinos are making things hard for their customers and how they are so making things hard for their counterparts who are coming into the space new.
I think terms and conditions are some now only at the favour of the gambling house and never made to favour the player.
I'm locking this thread now since there is already a similar thread to this discussion and for those who want the link,
That's it below
Using ToS against users normal?

ralle14

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For the new betting companies and the less popular ones, it's possible, but in the casinos that i've played at, they're not like that. I had a close call before when my account got in trouble for using VPN, but I was able to use it again after I gave a reasonable response to their live support. I agree with Coin_trader it depends on the casinos you play at, you'll rarely go through this experience when you play at the top-rated casinos, and if there's an issue, you'd usually get a faster and better response.

goldkingcoiner

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Quote from: Obari on June 01, 2023, 09:37:05 AM

It is already becoming increasingly worrisome, maybe not to everyone but personally to me at the rate at which betting companies are using terms and conditions against their customers and there a recent case with the link below
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.62324285
Most times i think since most users don't take out time to read the terms and conditions of platform before jumping on it, most betting companies steal money from their customers with claims that they broke their terms and conditions and the case with the link above annoyed me so much because I felt the support term wasn't helpful enough as I was expecting them to point out the T&C that was broken to the player rather than just lock his account and seize his money.

Now I wish to know if these companies play on the weakness of their customers using T&C to rob them and has anyone else experienced this ?

Terms and Conditions are legal requirements as well as what must be stated in them. I do not think that the betting companies/Casinos are trying to dupe us over with a piece of writing which was imposed on them by the regulatory branch of the government. I am not going to say that they would not try to leech our money out of us in any way possible, no matter how questionable the intentions are.

But business is business. Don't hate the player, hate the game.

Porfirii

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Quote from: bittraffic on June 01, 2023, 09:48:48 AM

Not the usual thing they do but the number of cases are growing, they didn't explain exactly which in their TOS was violated but the customer can't do anything about it. The most recent we have seen I think is where the client has $500k in his account. I'm still unsure what happen though, waiting is part of their game.

If casinos like them gets away with what they are doing, some casinos will also do the same for their exit scam.

In the case you mentioned the accusation is against a reputable casino, and looking at the images (evidences) it seems that Customer Support simply told the gambler to wait, but 48h seemed too long to him and he decided to slander them in the forum, because "in Binance this doesn't happen".

IMO, if he deposited almost 3M and wants to withdraw, the logical thing is to expect the casino to take precautions. And also for smaller amounts: I had to wait more than 48h from a gambling site in the past... to withdraw $10! That said, it is way too soon to make a scam accusation, but it seems that he doesn't think the same way.

Don't take me wrong: there are other casinos we all know, with bad reputation, and unknown ones also, that selectively scam using the T&Cs, so the OP is right when he says that (some) betting companies use them against their customers. But I don't think the one you mentioned is any of them.

SamReomo

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Quote from: Obari on June 01, 2023, 09:37:05 AM

It is already becoming increasingly worrisome, maybe not to everyone but personally to me at the rate at which betting companies are using terms and conditions against their customers and there a recent case with the link below
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.62324285
Most times i think since most users don't take out time to read the terms and conditions of platform before jumping on it, most betting companies steal money from their customers with claims that they broke their terms and conditions and the case with the link above annoyed me so much because I felt the support term wasn't helpful enough as I was expecting them to point out the T&C that was broken to the player rather than just lock his account and seize his money.

Now I wish to know if these companies play on the weakness of their customers using T&C to rob them and has anyone else experienced this ?

The Terms and Conditions of those online casinos aren't against the players in any manners. Those T&C are implemented to stop the frauds and scammers from misusing their sites or the online games they offer. There are some people who always look for flaws of an online casino and as soon as they find the flaw they just misuse it by earning all the bets.

That thing can be harmful for the online casino as well for the users of the casino. Those people who find such flaws will have higher advantage to earn all the bets because of the bus\flaw, and the others users will mostly use their money to such hackers. I would call those hackers rather than gamblers because they misuse the system.

There are some scamming casinos who do that as well because those sites are mainly doing that for looting the money of the innocent users. They aren't to be called as casinos, as frauds and scammers because they do that thing intentionally.

Coin_trader

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Quote from: Obari on June 01, 2023, 09:37:05 AM

Now I wish to know if these companies play on the weakness of their customers using T&C to rob them

Definitely NOT, A reputable casino won’t do this kind of shit unless the player is obviously violating the ToS in the form of abused of casino rewards and other benefits. The case that attached is really frustrating because the support gives a dead end answer without providing a detailed explanation on how the user violate the ToS since they already concluded the case. Failure to provide proof is a clear sign that they doesn’t have any proof to prove the case.

Quote from: Obari on June 01, 2023, 09:37:05 AM

has anyone else experienced this ?

I experience an investigation with my account before due to my frequent withdraw and deposit activity but since I’m playing on reputable casino my account was released since they don’t find any proof on the case that they are suspecting that I violate. This is the difference between playing on reputable and mediocre casino. Mediocre casino will find a way to get back their losses once they saw that a player is consistently winning.

pawanjain

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Quote from: Obari on June 01, 2023, 09:37:05 AM

It is already becoming increasingly worrisome, maybe not to everyone but personally to me at the rate at which betting companies are using terms and conditions against their customers and there a recent case with the link below
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.62324285
Most times i think since most users don't take out time to read the terms and conditions of platform before jumping on it, most betting companies steal money from their customers with claims that they broke their terms and conditions and the case with the link above annoyed me so much because I felt the support term wasn't helpful enough as I was expecting them to point out the T&C that was broken to the player rather than just lock his account and seize his money.

Now I wish to know if these companies play on the weakness of their customers using T&C to rob them and has anyone else experienced this ?

Yes they are. They do freeze the account of users whom they think are involved in shady activities.
This involves money laundering, abusing their platform, multi-accounting, using VPN etc...
Most people fall into the trap because they don't read their terms and conditions.
There is no way around to point out the sites' fault.

Cling18

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Quote from: paxmao on June 01, 2023, 11:02:58 AM

Yep, I have no doubt, the original purpose is to prevent fraudulent activities, but it is very easy to use that to hit the user if they become too lucky with several restrictions and nothing is preventing the site from using them after the fact, after the winnings. The defense is to use reputable sites and denounce any unfair treatment in this forum to assess.

It's possible and would be easy for non-reputable or small casino sites to do especially if they are focused on monitoring their users' activities. Since they have the right to change their TOS anytime, they could use it for their lucky players but I don't think reputable casinos do it.
Reputable casinos strongly implement their TOS but they won't restrict your account if you are not breaking or violating any of their rules. Our choice of casino will always have a huge part in our gambling activities. If you want peace of mind, then always pick a trusted casino site and of course, we must be mindful of the terms of services and should be aware of the regulations that we should follow.

lionheart78

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Terms and Conditions are supposed to give guidelines on how the player can use the gambling casino. They can serve both as protection and attack to the player since players can also use Terms and Conditions to prove themselves that they are not breaching any terms of it in case there are disputes and the casino is claiming that the accused player is breaching their terms.

Sadly since the Casino owner has the authority over the casino and holds the player's funds, crook casinos often use the T&C to exploit players even using it as the base for accusation while not revealing or specifying the offense the player had made, just like the example @OP stated on his post.

Quote from: Obari on June 01, 2023, 09:37:05 AM

Now I wish to know if these companies play on the weakness of their customers using T&C to rob them and has anyone else experienced this ?

Anyone breaching the T&C has its penalty. One of which is blocking the account and confiscating the fund in it. I do not think reputable casinos are exploiting the T&C, it is there upon the registration, to begin with and the player must not only read it but understand the message it conveys. Casinos use T&C not to find the weakness of players but serve as guidelines in order to determine players that are cheating and exploiting the casino by bypassing what is written on T&C.

paxmao

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Yep, I have no doubt, the original purpose is to prevent fraudulent activities, but it is very easy to use that to hit the user if they become too lucky with a number of restrictions and there is nothing preventing the site using them after the fact, after the winnings. The defence is to use reputable sites and denounce any unfair treatment in this forum to assess.

_act_

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Quote from: ryzaadit on June 01, 2023, 09:56:45 AM

Your parents tell you to always read a contract before sign ? IMO, you don't need to read all of them just read a few part:
- Account
- Restricted
- Withdraw & Deposit
- KYC
- Topic abused

You mean restricted countries and areas.

It is good to read about not having multiple accounts too becuase some gamblers do not take it as something serious and they are not cheating with it.

It is good to read about the use of VPN too.

It is good to read and know if it is KYC required or not because some gamblers do not like KYC. Although most gambling sites today require KYC.

To understand the gambling site, read all the ToS.

uneng

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Even if gamblers read terms and conditions, they would see it's pretty common casinos close accounts and confiscate money when they spot the gambler as a potential cheater. Every casinos will act like this in order to protect their businesses from abuses.

The point is how each casino is handling with this issue. Some casinos don't present any evidences when punishing gamblers, what increases the suspicion they are the real cheaters, instead of the gamblers. However, terms and conditions aren't directly related to this issue. The main concern here is the reputation of the casino, how the gambling community sees the platform.

When a casino starts acting maliciously (like 1xbit does), there will be lots of negative reviews on the internet about their services, so other gamblers won't feel encouraged to deposit on that platform. That is the key factor which is going to prevent lots of gamblers from losing money to a scam website. Terms and conditions will remain mostly default for most websites, though, and hardly ever gamblers are going to read it in every cases.

ethereumhunter

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What is certain is that many users still do not take the time to read the terms and conditions of gambling platforms. They think that all the rules are almost the same as other casinos so they deposit money immediately and if there are difficulties, they quickly accuse the casino of scam. And therein lies the biggest mistake of players who do not read the terms and conditions while the casino does what it can.

But casinos suspected of committing fraud are deliberately toying with their users on the pretext that their users violate their rules. Apart from that, players should also be able to choose a trusted casino so they don't experience difficulties.

YOSHIE

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Quote from: Obari on June 01, 2023, 09:37:05 AM

Now I wish to know if these companies play on the weakness of their customers using T&C to rob them and has anyone else experienced this ?

@Obari each online casino has its own requirements with different rules and requirements, that's the main point.

However, from what I've seen so far, those who complain and make accusations against the online casinos that are here, are mostly beginners, either they break the rules or the casinos have problems, but I rarely see highly rated accounts complaining against the casinos that are here.
Question.....!
Is it a high rated account, never gambled at the casino here, of course have, maybe some of us here have risked large amounts of money, why no complaints.....! Are they not deceived, It's the newbies that I often see here crying cheated $ 100k to $ 500k, do they not read the rules, bullshit.

I personally don't believe the ramblings/accusations made by newbies here, it's so stupid for newbies to bet up to $1000k in online casinos, where does that kind of money come from, all bullshit, strangely, they accuse almost all the casinos here, casino A loses $500k casino B loses $500k, per satan, is it possible that an account is made to accuse in any sense of the word (competition), attack each other with a beginner account, wise thinkers judge it.

Lucius

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@Obari, maybe you could have asked this question in this topic Using ToS against users normal? considering that it is on the first page of this board. I believe that you can find some very good answers to your question there.

Cantsay

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If a casino changes their Terms of Service without notifying their customer it's purely their faulty, but if it is the user that failed to read the ToS of the casino and then start using it, and later got punished then the fault will be at the users side.

As for the support not pointing out the terms that the user broke I'd say that's was not professionally done, they should at least let the user know that this is the particular reason why we have decided to closed down your account or why we won't allow you make any withdrawal, that way the user can avoid making the same mistake twice if they ever want to use the same or other casino in the future (that does not mean they shouldn't read the new casino's ToS).

ryzaadit

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What is the case about steal?

If the user are broken term & condition or not full fill the term & condition, the service have some right to do action based on the term & condition they have. T&C is just like contract, that's why you should try to read it.

Your parents tell you to always read a contract before sign ? IMO, you don't need to read all of them just read a few part:
- Account
- Restricted
- Withdraw & Deposit
- KYC
- Topic abused

Use CTRL + F, my self find these information in under 2-3 mins.

PX-Z

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Quote from: Obari on June 01, 2023, 09:37:05 AM

Now I wish to know if these companies play on the weakness of their customers using T&C to rob them and has anyone else experienced this ?

Yes, most of them if not, all of them. That's only what they have to flag, blacklist and blocked abusers the same time those users who are randomly scammed by their "fraud team" without giving any valuable and strong proof. Most of them are just probability, a percentage that a user is an abuser by their rigged system or what word should fit to that.
Asking for help on askgamblers and other review sites and third party mediator could be very helpful to at least remove those gambling sites as recommended gambling on their list. Or file a lawsuit.

bittraffic

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Not the usual thing they do but the number of cases are growing, they didn't explain exactly which in their TOS was violated but the customer can't do anything about it. The most recent we have seen I think is where the client has $500k in his account. I'm still unsure what happen though, waiting is part of their game.

If casinos like them gets away with what they are doing, some casinos will also do the same for their exit scam.

Topic: Are betting companies using T&C against their customers (Read 179 times)