Are the Whales Control bitcoin price?

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Quote from: uchegod-21 on June 22, 2023, 04:40:24 AM

Quote from: Not your key not your BTC on December 09, 2022, 04:15:30 AM

we all know no one can controls the bitcoin price because bitcoin isn't like bank, stock and valas. but if the whales owned 51% of bitcoin, can do it?. if happen, does decentralization not exist?

Whales have the power to manipulate the prices of coins and this is more evident in altcoins that has lower price and low market cap. Bitcoin is not very easy to manipulate this team, you are definitely gonna risk so many resources which may turn bad for you.
Talking about if whales own 51% of bitcoin whether it will affect decentralization. The 50% attack is not about the number of bitcoin owned but the computational power. So, nothing will happen to decentralization because bitcoin network is based on PoW and not PoS.

I agree when comparing bitcoin vs altcoin manipulation, smaller cap altcoins are easier to manipulate. But saying that bitcoin is not easily manipulated, I disagree. We look at the entire market and can see a total capitalization of just over $1 trillion. Honestly, the financial market with such a small cap can be said to be insignificant, the manipulation is too easy, whales can manipulate the whole market, not just bitcoin. 1 trillion USD for an individual is huge, but compared to other markets, it is nothing, even less than the capitalization of a corporation. And that's why we still have a lot of opportunities to make big money investing in cryptocurrencies, but the risks will also be more.
What we are talking about is just price manipulation, as for the bitcoin network, I don't think anyone can manipulate it.

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Quote from: Not your key not your BTC on December 09, 2022, 04:15:30 AM

we all know no one can controls the bitcoin price because bitcoin isn't like bank, stock and valas. but if the whales owned 51% of bitcoin, can do it?. if happen, does decentralization not exist?

Whales have the power to manipulate the prices of coins and this is more evident in altcoins that has lower price and low market cap. Bitcoin is not very easy to manipulate this team, you are definitely gonna risk so many resources which may turn bad for you.
Talking about if whales own 51% of bitcoin whether it will affect decentralization. The 50% attack is not about the number of bitcoin owned but the computational power. So, nothing will happen to decentralization because bitcoin network is based on PoW and not PoS.

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Whales do not 100% control the market but they can move some candles up and down in a short of period of time. and I dont believe they can control bitcoin price entire time but I do believe they exist in other instrument as well

I mean money talks right if you have lot money you might move the price to your direction but Also bunch of retail can also act againts the whale too so decentralization is pretty much still there

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Now we know who control the bitcoin price, the company like blackrock, fidelity, valkrie and ets try to control bitcoi price.

If you don't own bitcoin for now, you will buy it again on high price in the future

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Quote from: blockman on January 22, 2023, 03:23:36 PM

Quote from: Cantsay on January 22, 2023, 10:24:06 AM

Bitcoin whales can have a slight effect on Bitcoin but they are unable to fully control the price of Bitcoin. The factors that have been controlling the price of Bitcoin are still in effect i.e supply and demands and not whales. And most people who are new to the system tend to be scared of it because they were lied to or got a wrong information about whales and the price of Bitcoin.

True, they don't have utter control over the market but they can influence everyone which that will make a move in the market. They may slightly affect it.
But, whenever they use media for it, we see that it seems a market manipulation because of what everyone is going to do and that's making them panic if it's a bad news.
These whales know how to play with everyone's emotion and they're maximizing the use of media for it.

We cannot deny that indeed the whales will have a slight impact, but not that big. I agree with what you said that supply and demand is still the main thing to control the bitcoin market. But now there is a lot of talk about whales influencing the price of bitcoin, in my opinion it is a belief that sticks in the mind. I mean when we have such thoughts and believe then we are under the illusion that what we believe is really happening, even though there are many other factors involved in it.

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Quote from: QueenVera on January 16, 2023, 10:27:21 AM

Quote from: glendall on January 15, 2023, 07:47:34 AM

I think whales don't have full control over the price of bitcoin, it all depends on market demand where the market will continue to move if there are lots of buying requests,
but if someone has a large amount of bitcoin there could be a possibility of monopolizing the price,

Whales are the market movers, they decide when the market pumps or dump and majority of the whales are exchanges themselves because they have lots of liquidity provided by those making use of if their exchange as wallet and storing their coins over there.
FTX exchange was guilty of this as they found out that they were making use of customers funds illegally and that's what other exchange does too which make it easier for them to manipulate the market.
A Whale mightn't do the manipulation all by themselves but they can do it in groups and this trigger a market reaction whicy the retail traders begin to panic and dump their coins or buy more so they don't miss out on potential profits.

glendall then who gave the demand and supply in the market. Whales are the controllers of the market. They determine the movement of the market. If all the whale withdraw from bitcoin then the price drastically change and come down.

QueenVera I agree with you, one whale can not determine the price but as a cartel (group). The only part they can't do is the control of bitcoin but for the price they have influence. Bitcoin is a decentralized asset which nobody can control.

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Quote from: blockman on January 22, 2023, 03:23:36 PM

Quote from: Cantsay on January 22, 2023, 10:24:06 AM

Bitcoin whales can have a slight effect on Bitcoin but they are unable to fully control the price of Bitcoin. The factors that have been controlling the price of Bitcoin are still in effect i.e supply and demands and not whales. And most people who are new to the system tend to be scared of it because they were lied to or got a wrong information about whales and the price of Bitcoin.

True, they don't have utter control over the market but they can influence everyone which that will make a move in the market. They may slightly affect it.
But, whenever they use media for it, we see that it seems a market manipulation because of what everyone is going to do and that's making them panic if it's a bad news.
These whales know how to play with everyone's emotion and they're maximizing the use of media for it.

I agree that Bitcoin is uncontrollable in its current form because it is designed that way. However, Bitcoin prices can and are manipulated by whales. I believe you can microtransact large quantities without negatively affecting the price. That's what Microstrategy does. On-chain data shows a high price correlation with whales moving in large numbers on or off exchanges. One scenario I've heard of is the whale has huge shorts, dumps a lot of bitcoins, shakes up a lot of people, and their micro buy orders gobble up the bitcoins.

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Quote from: TheUltraElite on January 29, 2023, 07:48:30 AM

Destroying bitcoin does not even make any sense.
...

Oh there are many different interests in the world: bitcoin competes fiat currencies including USD and EUR and their issuers could be interested in destroying a competitor; some classical assets like shares market can be also interested in redirecting of financial flows to them. And there could be some other interested party. So there could be sense, but the balance between interest and efforts makes it too expensive. So whales prefer to earn on bitcoin and not to try to destroy it.

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Quote from: jokers10 on January 23, 2023, 07:36:05 AM

Strange idea to get a control over the price of an asset to destroy an asset. If someone would like to destroy bitcoin he'd probably choose a way of coding some malware or adopting some prohibitional laws. If someone even holds 51% of BTC by own it doesn't destroy bitcoin. You'll hardly can buy all bitcoins to prevent it's moving. Grin

Destroying bitcoin does not even make any sense. Controlling the bigger share of bitcoin also does not, because it is decentralized. Attempting to move the market using a large volume is possible but that does not allow a "whale" to control the price but only move it.

Laws on crypto are big way but possible that may happen in future, even then we got bigger heads on that for now and far as malware is concerned, we should be more careful about our own wallets and how we keep them safe because that is the easiest point of entry instead of the market.

It is the pump and dump groups that move more than what whales do in my opinion. But keeping all that aside, since our objective is to make profit off the market, just treat them as numbers and dont get emotionally attached to it.

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Quote from: ningrum on January 22, 2023, 02:00:46 PM

...
whales can indeed be in control, but to destroy bitcoin of course they can never, so don't worry.

Strange idea to get a control over the price of an asset to destroy an asset. If someone would like to destroy bitcoin he'd probably choose a way of coding some malware or adopting some prohibitional laws. If someone even holds 51% of BTC by own it doesn't destroy bitcoin. You'll hardly can buy all bitcoins to prevent it's moving. Grin

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Quote from: Cantsay on January 22, 2023, 10:24:06 AM

Bitcoin whales can have a slight effect on Bitcoin but they are unable to fully control the price of Bitcoin. The factors that have been controlling the price of Bitcoin are still in effect i.e supply and demands and not whales. And most people who are new to the system tend to be scared of it because they were lied to or got a wrong information about whales and the price of Bitcoin.

True, they don't have utter control over the market but they can influence everyone which that will make a move in the market. They may slightly affect it.
But, whenever they use media for it, we see that it seems a market manipulation because of what everyone is going to do and that's making them panic if it's a bad news.
These whales know how to play with everyone's emotion and they're maximizing the use of media for it.

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Quote from: Not your key not your BTC on December 09, 2022, 04:15:30 AM

we all know no one can controls the bitcoin price because bitcoin isn't like bank, stock and valas. but if the whales owned 51% of bitcoin, can do it?. if happen, does decentralization not exist?

Bitcoin is still decentralized, it's just that the supply of Bitcoin has actually been bought by several big companies like maybe Tesla and Microstrategy who are buying up Bitcoin,
we can also see through explorer how the supply of bitcoin moves, and who holds Bitcoin, this is why Decentralization will always run in Bitcoin,
whales can indeed be in control, but to destroy bitcoin of course they can never, so don't worry.

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Quote from: Cantsay on January 22, 2023, 10:24:06 AM

Bitcoin whales can have a slight effect on Bitcoin but they are unable to fully control the price of Bitcoin. The factors that have been controlling the price of Bitcoin are still in effect i.e supply and demands and not whales. And most people who are new to the system tend to be scared of it because they were lied to or got a wrong information about whales and the price of Bitcoin.

I think collectively, there are more accumulated Sats in bitcoins of individual holdings than there are by any single whale. Given this, it is extremely difficult to have control of what you don't have the majority and for each you sell, you lose your strength or influence over the market. After all, you hope to hold in other to have more profits from your holding. This means, no whale would effectively sell there coins.
Mind you, trabsfering your coins from a wallet to an exchange be it a whale or an individual with some hodlings doesn't mean your selling them. You just might as well be providing liquidity which is effective based on how the news is passed and received by investors.

Demand and Supply with respect to scarcity controls the market still.

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Bitcoin whales can have a slight effect on Bitcoin but they are unable to fully control the price of Bitcoin. The factors that have been controlling the price of Bitcoin are still in effect i.e supply and demands and not whales. And most people who are new to the system tend to be scared of it because they were lied to or got a wrong information about whales and the price of Bitcoin.

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Quote from: Not your key not your BTC on December 09, 2022, 04:15:30 AM

we all know no one can controls the bitcoin price because bitcoin isn't like bank, stock and valas. but if the whales owned 51% of bitcoin, can do it?. if happen, does decentralization not exist?

- The whales can give a strong movement to the value of bitcoin in the market, they cannot control it at the price they want, and it will only have a big impact.

But to your question, if anyone own 51% bitcoin? can it be done? Do you know how many bitcoins 51% is? the answer is around 10, 710, 000 BTC, and if I calculate that with its current value it is around 223B$ almost. And when you use google search you won't find any bitcoin holders who have that many bitcoins.

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Quote from: klidex on January 21, 2023, 01:32:02 PM

Of course whales will not be able to control Bitcoins even though they have lots of Bitcoins, but it should be impossible for whales to hold lots of bitcoins up to 50% of the total in circulation because actually the one who really keeps the most Bitcoins is Satoshi himself who is the creator of Bitcoin.
What's more, Bitcoin is not a crypto asset that is centered on anything and in the Crypto industry, investors who store Bitcoin consist of many people spread all over the world, so it is impossible for Bitcoin to be influenced or controlled by a group of whales.
We should have been able to think that if bitcoin could be controlled, it wouldn't have been controlled and played with long ago, but in reality no one has been able to control it.

And it's also still pretty anonymous how many Bitcoins Satoshi Nakamoto owns, because as of now no one has been able to prove the number of holdings, I believe the Pope can play his part in the market, but not control the price as they see fit. If not, many companies holding Bitcoin are currently able to control the price of Bitcoin, another reason that strengthens Bitcoin cannot be controlled has been proven by governments trying to make Regulations, but their wishes failed and were unable to limit bitcoin.

Because the decentralized nature of Bitcoin makes many people unable to control its price, Bitcoin is influenced to rise or be corrected for a number of strong reasons and maybe a simpler one is called a supply and demand relationship, some others may also have a relationship that influences it even though it is not clear or definite.

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Not a single whale can manipulate the market price most of the time those are the large investors sometimes as a team so they can dump immediately the price, and those percentage is just a single whale its all about the other investors too and the current economic status why do the people withdraw their funds or just transfer and convert into other coins, but if you are a small trader and getting into this wave of the crypto market better to know when the time to exit.

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Quote from: DanWalker on January 21, 2023, 09:42:41 PM

Quote from: worle1bm on January 21, 2023, 01:52:45 AM

Quote from: LDL on January 21, 2023, 12:59:51 AM

Bitcoin is completely decentralized, one or more individuals, institutions, and groups do not control Bitcoin. Bitcoin whales are organizations, individuals, and groups that hold 1000 or 1000+ bitcoins. Yes it may be somewhat true that bitcoin whales may temporarily have some effect on the bitcoin market. For example, if Michael Sheller sells all his bitcoins in the market at once, the bitcoin market will be affected to some extent. Bitcoin whales will not completely destroy the Bitcoin market.

The correct name is Michael Saylor and at current his company MicroStrategy holds more then 120k bitcoins and he buys at dips but even if he sell the effect would be temporary dump on the prices but in long run it will rise.The whales cannot directly have the manipulation so they also try to create FUD so that there is panic in the market which results in weak hands selling to strong one's at discounted rates.But nobody can control the bitcoin network which is true decentralisation nature of it.

It is true that no one can control the bitcoin network as it is scattered all over the world, so manipulating it is almost impossible, but considering the bitcoin price, they are more than capable of doing it. Crypto is still just a manipulative market where bump and dump games are constantly happening. The market cap is just $1 trillion, too small to be easily manipulated, and it's so free that the sharks of the financial markets won't ignore it for profit.

Such is the fact that the crypto market is still manipulative and it is common knowledge,
as long as there is an opportunity they pope will use it to manipulate the market,
the most important thing is that we are always careful and keep abreast of market developments.

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Quote from: worle1bm on January 21, 2023, 01:52:45 AM

Quote from: LDL on January 21, 2023, 12:59:51 AM

Bitcoin is completely decentralized, one or more individuals, institutions, and groups do not control Bitcoin. Bitcoin whales are organizations, individuals, and groups that hold 1000 or 1000+ bitcoins. Yes it may be somewhat true that bitcoin whales may temporarily have some effect on the bitcoin market. For example, if Michael Sheller sells all his bitcoins in the market at once, the bitcoin market will be affected to some extent. Bitcoin whales will not completely destroy the Bitcoin market.

The correct name is Michael Saylor and at current his company MicroStrategy holds more then 120k bitcoins and he buys at dips but even if he sell the effect would be temporary dump on the prices but in long run it will rise.The whales cannot directly have the manipulation so they also try to create FUD so that there is panic in the market which results in weak hands selling to strong one's at discounted rates.But nobody can control the bitcoin network which is true decentralisation nature of it.

It is true that no one can control the bitcoin network as it is scattered all over the world, so manipulating it is almost impossible, but considering the bitcoin price, they are more than capable of doing it. Crypto is still just a manipulative market where bump and dump games are constantly happening. The market cap is just $1 trillion, too small to be easily manipulated, and it's so free that the sharks of the financial markets won't ignore it for profit.

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Quote from: shinratensei_ on January 21, 2023, 06:34:40 PM

I think if it's big coins like bitcoin and ethereum some random whales couldn't really do anything in regard of the value of the coin, I think it still largely depends in the market trend, but if it's some smaller altcoins the whales might have controls over it, you've seen various meme coins that's being manipulated, I guess that's the scale of their ability in controlling coins, manipulating bitcoin and ethereum would definitely take tremendous money from them and that also doesn't guarantee that they gonna make returns from this attempt of investments manipulation.

Bitcoin is also susceptible in some scale to whales' manipulation. Not too much like it happens regards altcoins, but there is also manipulation in Bitcoin market, anyway. The good news is that each time a whale attempts to manipulate the market, he is going to drop tons of coins for sale, which are bought by small investors, so on long run we are going to have more investors involved in Bitcoin investment, while the coins will be split among more hands, decreasing the power and influence whales have on this market.

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