Are the Whales Control bitcoin price? - page 7.

Mauser

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Quote from: Not your key not your BTC on December 09, 2022, 05:15:30 AM

we all know no one can controls the bitcoin price because bitcoin isn't like bank, stock and valas. but if the whales owned 51% of bitcoin, can do it?. if happen, does decentralization not exist?

Every buy and every sell order is going to influence the Bitcoin price. The larger the orders the large the price impact, that is why whales can definitely influence the price in their favour to a certain extent. This doesn't mean that decentralisation doesn't exit. Bitcoin is a decentralised network that doesn't rely on one main framework controlling everything. When you speak of the "whales" it sounds a bit like it's a group of people that all work together, this is obviously not the case. I think there is a difference between whales from North America, Asia or even Europe. They all are living in different currency regions and will trade on their own personal needs. In my opinion it's not only the whales, but also the HODL investors who are influencing the Bitcoin price heavily. Without the strong HODL community not giving into the selling pressure the price of Bitcoins would have dropped much lower than it did this year.

davis196

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Quote from: Not your key not your BTC on December 09, 2022, 05:15:30 AM

we all know no one can controls the bitcoin price because bitcoin isn't like bank, stock and valas. but if the whales owned 51% of bitcoin, can do it?. if happen, does decentralization not exist?

You should learn more about Bitcoin.
Manipulating market prices is one thing, performing a 51% attack over the Bitcoin Core blockchain is another thing(which has nothing to do with the first thing). A successful 51% attack will crash the Bitcoin price down to a few pennies. Perhaps this is what you mean by "control over the Bitcoin price". Grin

Saying that Bitcoin has nothing to do with banks and stocks is partially true. From a financial point of view, Bitcoin actually has something to do with stocks. Both Bitcoin and stocks are financial assets, both are being traded on the financial markets(crypto markets are financial markets after all), both have supply and demand, both have market price/value.

usekevin

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The whale had a full control over the price of the bitcoin. Whales are the people who come to the market before the new traders get into the website,So they will have huge money as compared to normal people in terms of bitcoin.So they sell when the market is green,the green market will give profit to the traders and the whales the most.Whales use both the chances to get profit by the long term holding bitcoin as compared to normal margin traders.

Ziskinberg

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Quote from: Kakmakr on December 10, 2022, 04:48:15 AM

Well, this is a debate with no certain answer... because only a few people can answer that. If you had the trading information of all the Exchanges and you can link the personal information with the bitcoins that are traded, then you will be able to give a correct answer.

Because usually, we assume that whales can manipulate the market and in fact, it was right. They can move the market using their money, that's their power. However, it was not enough to control everything in the market for they are not just the ones who could influence it as there are a lot of factors that can change the direction of the price trend.

Quote

Most regulated Exchanges have that information, but they do not divulge that personal information to the public. The average price are determined by the trading price on bigger Exchanges, where these Whales are playing. Roll Eyes

We can't urge them to give any information.
It is privacy and we indeed respect it.

Leviathan.007

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A whale cannot control the bitcoin price or change anything by itself because even if they sell or buy a huge amount of bitcoins it still will affect the market for a short time and in the long term even if some other whales do the same thing still they cannot change lots of things because the whale does not own a big share of the market and consider the information we have from bitcoin wallets they won't be able to do such thing.

Woodie

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With bitcoin bordered around speculation and the herd mentality that most of us have because of trying to ride the wave of whatever is thrown to us does point in the direction of whales having that influence.

Whales being the big guys of the markets if they choose to buy a lumpsome of coins the charts do equally show this big green candle which gives the general direction the market will be taking and everyone else will want to be buying at his point...I guess price does follow the whales.

ethereumhunter

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Quote from: Not your key not your BTC on December 09, 2022, 05:15:30 AM

we all know no one can controls the bitcoin price because bitcoin isn't like bank, stock and valas. but if the whales owned 51% of bitcoin, can do it?. if happen, does decentralization not exist?

For now, the whales cannot control the price of bitcoin, even though they own 51% of bitcoin because the current price of bitcoin is already very high. But if it was a few years ago when bitcoin prices were low, they could still do it. Today, because so many people know about bitcoin and take part in the search for profits, the price can go anywhere. In addition, the whales may currently remain focused on making profits and there may also be some who spread negative news to panic people so they are frightened and sell their bitcoins.

Kakmakr

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Well, this is a debate with no certain answer... because only a few people can answer that. If you had the trading information of all the Exchanges and you can link the personal information with the bitcoins that are traded, then you will be able to give a correct answer.

Most regulated Exchanges have that information, but they do not divulge that personal information to the public. The average price are determined by the trading price on bigger Exchanges, where these Whales are playing. Roll Eyes

Pmalek

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Quote from: Not your key not your BTC on December 09, 2022, 05:15:30 AM

we all know no one can controls the bitcoin price because bitcoin isn't like bank, stock and valas.

What is valas? Is that some non-English term for fiat and traditional currencies or what are we talking about?

Quote from: mk4 on December 09, 2022, 05:23:08 AM

So even if a single person held a huge chunk of Bitcoin, that wouldn't give him special powers over the protocol.

I think that what OP was asking with this part is whether owning a huge chunk of Bitcoin would give that individual enough power to move prices according to their will. The short answer is no. The long answer is that collusions are certainly possible if it suits the interests of all involved parties, particularly if that interest is making even more money.

But a few whales can't do much even if they had ulterior motives. You would need to create a domino effect where your actions cause a significant part of the holders to either dump or buy more if you want the market to go a certain direction. It's a bit easier If you have big media behind your back that scares the unknowing population with bitcoin bans, the death of bitcoin, strict regulation, and more harmful stories.

rhomelmabini

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Quote from: Not your key not your BTC on December 09, 2022, 05:15:30 AM

we all know no one can controls the bitcoin price because bitcoin isn't like bank, stock and valas. but if the whales owned 51% of bitcoin, can do it?. if happen, does decentralization not exist?

Lot of talks before already and no way these whales could control the Bitcoin price unless they really are that many. I think there's a possibility to be controlled if it wasn't decentralized, since it's not then bad luck for those who want to control and just thinking of monopolizing it.

JohnBitCo

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Quote from: Not your key not your BTC on December 09, 2022, 05:15:30 AM

we all know no one can controls the bitcoin price because bitcoin isn't like bank, stock and valas. but if the whales owned 51% of bitcoin, can do it?. if happen, does decentralization not exist?

For sure, the whales will have money to buy bitcoin and anyone with money can buy the majority of the coins but it is different from fiat whales.
In the fiat system, the whales (the government themselves) can print as much money and keep on increasing their wealth while when it comes to the bitcoin whales they can't produce it, they need to buy bitcoin and hence its value is ever increasing.

boyptc

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Quote from: Solosanz on December 09, 2022, 10:04:21 AM

Quote from: boyptc on December 09, 2022, 07:48:09 AM

Satoshi's holdings are even estimated just around 1M of bitcoins.

It's just a speculation, there's no proof if Satoshi is really hold that's coins.

Yeah, it's said that it's around on that quantity and it's just a rough estimation. Whether it's for real or not, one thing for sure is that there have been burned bitcoins forever although that's not the narrative.

But, the thought of OP about whales having that much of 51% of total supply of bitcoin which I've given the estimation on how many a whale should have to have that percentage of holding which is unlikely.

fuguebtc

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Bitcoin price depends on many factors, such as demand or world economic factors that also affect bitcoin price and whales can still manipulate bitcoin prices but they won't last but only for a specific time.

The total market capitalization of the entire market has not exceeded 1 trillion dollars, it is smaller than the capitalization of apple or microsoft companies, it can be said that bitcoin is still very small, so manipulation is inevitable.

Currently, we have no regulations, so the big guys will take advantage of this loophole to manipulate the market, so many people think that chart analysis is not effective.

joniboini

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Quote from: Not your key not your BTC on December 09, 2022, 05:15:30 AM

but if the whales owned 51% of bitcoin, can do it?. if happen, does decentralization not exist?

If by decentralization you mean the ability to push the price down by dumping the coins on the market, you don't need to own 51% of the total supply to do it, considering the market liquidity is not even that deep. I think you have to separate between price movement and coin distribution to some extent if you want to talk about market manipulation. You also need to specify what kind of decentralization are you talking about since the network is definitely not controlled by some whales.

Back to market manipulation. Even if you only control 5% of the coins but the market is not that liquid, you can still manipulate the price to your own liking. I sold some shitcoin in the past, and the price move nearly 50% after I did that. If the volume/demand is high, that might not happen. Can this happen to Bitcoin? Probably. Even if it does, as long as the network is still fine, you should not worry too much. Unless of course what you really focused on is the price and you want to get profits asap

Yatsan

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They don't entirely control Bitcoin's market value but definitely, they investment movement will create a 'wave' motion in the market either upward or downward price movement. If their actions affect the market price, then doesn't that mean they control the market price? Still a no. simply because that effect is just temporary not unless small investors would follow their movement or if they would ride with the wave which will make the wave to last longer, which happens in this industry a lot. Such thing can be explained by the concept of market volatility itself as well as the relationship of price and demand. So what controls the market price of cryptos? Demand, and that includes the whole community not only whales.

Dunamisx

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Quote from: Not your key not your BTC on December 09, 2022, 05:15:30 AM

we all know no one can controls the bitcoin price because bitcoin isn't like bank, stock and valas. but if the whales owned 51% of bitcoin, can do it?. if happen, does decentralization not exist?

The whales alone are not the ones that determines the market since they only have the bitcoin in large amount deposited in their wallets, what they do is to hodl and sell when they needed to, also consider the large numbers of whales we have distributed across the world, they are many and the rate at which each of them hodl is different from each other, but the daily transactions we made in relation to the demand and supply of the available bitcoin determines the price push and some certain occasions that marks events with bitcoin.

buwaytress

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What's your definition of decentralisation? If it's concentration of supply in a few, then a shitcoin I could create right now and airdrop to 100 million active wallets so no single holder has even 0.001% of supply would be decentralised?

Like Husires says, there is no absolutes, only relatives. And you really would have a hard time finding a less centralised coin in any aspect.

Husires

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Quote from: Not your key not your BTC on December 09, 2022, 05:15:30 AM

we all know no one can controls the bitcoin price because bitcoin isn't like bank, stock and valas. but if the whales owned 51% of bitcoin, can do it?. if happen, does decentralization not exist?

it is POW crypto not POS, you mean hashrate?!
There is no absolute decentralization, there is centralization and decentralization and between them there are currencies, Bitcoin is more decentralized than all currencies, and so on.
As for the effect, if it is in the hash rate, more people can join or stop using the network, but it will affect the currency.

LittleBitFunny

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Quote from: Solosanz on December 09, 2022, 10:04:21 AM

Assuming there's a whales own 51% of total Bitcoin supply, it doesn't mean decentralization not exist anymore because those whales will hold their Bitcoin and not sell it. It make Bitcoin circulation become less and if the demand is same, it will boost Bitcoin price since it's make Bitcoin scarcer. That's similar like people who lost their private key, no one can withdraw the coins, actually it make Bitcoin price more valuable.

What makes you sure they'll hold those bitcoins and not sell them? We're all here for the money and whales just like us. If they can control half of the bitcoins, then bitcoin is no longer decentralized, and it will be easy for them to manipulate the bitcoin price in their favor.
If that happens, it will jeopardize the market as a whole rather than something good to boost the market. Like we're talking about ETH becoming so centralized because sharks largely hold it.
Currently, despite not owning 51% of the total supply, some whales can still manipulate the price of bitcoin but that may not last long but enough for them to make a profit.

Solosanz

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Assuming there's a whales own 51% of total Bitcoin supply, it doesn't mean decentralization not exist anymore because those whales will hold their Bitcoin and not sell it. It make Bitcoin circulation become less and if the demand is same, it will boost Bitcoin price since it's make Bitcoin scarcer. That's similar like people who lost their private key, no one can withdraw the coins, actually it make Bitcoin price more valuable.

Quote from: boyptc on December 09, 2022, 07:48:09 AM

Satoshi's holdings are even estimated just around 1M of bitcoins.

It's just a speculation, there's no proof if Satoshi is really hold that's coins.

Topic: Are the Whales Control bitcoin price? - page 7. (Read 1621 times)