Rick Falkvinge posted an interesting article today related to this discussion:
http://falkvinge.net/2013/04/03/why-bitcoin-is-poised-to-change-society-much-more-than-the-internet-did/
Topic: Are we revolutionaries? (Read 3711 times)
If we're going to be calling ourselves "revolutionaries" then we better understand who is our enemy. I would like to see this community create a list of our vulnerabilities going forward.
For instance, the 51% attack has been discussed quite a bit. What could the unlimited resources of central bankers do to us in this regard now with ASICS?
At some point, bitcoin will be demonstrated (by USgov) to be a terrist tool and the full force of the monster will be unleased upon it.
Governments could attack our exchanges by hacking them or by banning them outright.
Laws could be passed forbidding businesses from accepting bitcoin, thus driving it underground.
Sophisticated analysis of the blockchain by USgov (in concert with every other surveillance technique) will foil the attempts of most people to be anonymous.
The moment USgov declares bitcoin illegal a huge swath of 'revolutionaries' on these boards will sell into a plummeting price and disappear.
For instance, the 51% attack has been discussed quite a bit. What could the unlimited resources of central bankers do to us in this regard now with ASICS?
At some point, bitcoin will be demonstrated (by USgov) to be a terrist tool and the full force of the monster will be unleased upon it.
Governments could attack our exchanges by hacking them or by banning them outright.
Laws could be passed forbidding businesses from accepting bitcoin, thus driving it underground.
Sophisticated analysis of the blockchain by USgov (in concert with every other surveillance technique) will foil the attempts of most people to be anonymous.
The moment USgov declares bitcoin illegal a huge swath of 'revolutionaries' on these boards will sell into a plummeting price and disappear.
I sort of counted on the USgov to save Bitcoin as a user-operated P2P system (the feature which appealed to me most) by trying to ban it because it should limit load to a sustainable level. I doubt that it would do much to the value of Bitcoin and might even add to an explosion like it does when other things are banned (like drugs for instance.) It's not like the people driving the BTC price up at this time are doing so to make Skittles purchases.
It is actually not an uncommon way to damage and ultimately destroy something by stimulating undesirable growth, or disproportionate growth in certain tissues of the organism to be destroyed. I believe that some herbicides work this way. It is also not uncommon for a disease to work this way (e.g., cancer.)
If we're going to be calling ourselves "revolutionaries" then we better understand who is our enemy. I would like to see this community create a list of our vulnerabilities going forward.
For instance, the 51% attack has been discussed quite a bit. What could the unlimited resources of central bankers do to us in this regard now with ASICS?
At some point, bitcoin will be demonstrated (by USgov) to be a terrist tool and the full force of the monster will be unleased upon it.
Governments could attack our exchanges by hacking them or by banning them outright.
Laws could be passed forbidding businesses from accepting bitcoin, thus driving it underground.
Sophisticated analysis of the blockchain by USgov (in concert with every other surveillance technique) will foil the attempts of most people to be anonymous.
The moment USgov declares bitcoin illegal a huge swath of 'revolutionaries' on these boards will sell into a plummeting price and disappear.
For instance, the 51% attack has been discussed quite a bit. What could the unlimited resources of central bankers do to us in this regard now with ASICS?
At some point, bitcoin will be demonstrated (by USgov) to be a terrist tool and the full force of the monster will be unleased upon it.
Governments could attack our exchanges by hacking them or by banning them outright.
Laws could be passed forbidding businesses from accepting bitcoin, thus driving it underground.
Sophisticated analysis of the blockchain by USgov (in concert with every other surveillance technique) will foil the attempts of most people to be anonymous.
The moment USgov declares bitcoin illegal a huge swath of 'revolutionaries' on these boards will sell into a plummeting price and disappear.
- Bitcoin is helping people against the tyranny of the banks.
- Bitcoin is helping people from developing countries without banking infrastructure(more then 1 milliard people) to get access to the global economy.
- Bitcoin is helping the world peace because bitcoin cannot be confiscated to finance wars.
So bitcoin is revolutionary in the best sense of the word.
- Bitcoin is helping people from developing countries without banking infrastructure(more then 1 milliard people) to get access to the global economy.
- Bitcoin is helping the world peace because bitcoin cannot be confiscated to finance wars.
So bitcoin is revolutionary in the best sense of the word.
Standing armies are obsolete;
Wow. I'm still letting this sink in.
The great breakthrough with Bitcoin is the censorship-resistant nature. If you are unacquainted with GATA then I highly suggest you spend some time reading the article titled Why I Helped GATA Accept Bitcoins – Economic Censorship and Free Speech. And the 15 minute speech by Dr. Edwin Vieira (who has 4 degrees from Harvard and practices before the US Supreme Court) is excellent as is the other speech by Robert Landis another Harvard trained attorney.
I will definitely be checking that out, thank you.
Who would you want to have backing your digital currency? The people who can hack or the innumerate?
I've thought about this before, actually. In fact, one of the things that got me interested in Bitcoin again was seeing Anonymous accepting it as a way to support their hacktivist activities. If Anonymous is behind it, it does have an army.
Who would you want to have backing your digital currency? The people who can hack or the innumerate?
Of course the innumerate as we all know that X amount of violence can solve any math problem.
Standing armies are obsolete; anyone see Skyfall?
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The more I think about it, the more I wonder how far the government will go to stop it. In the US, they've already once confiscated our gold using the threat of fines and imprisonmnet. Could they do the same here? Wouldn't it be as simple as taking our safes, our computers, and cracking our password management software to know where our Bitcoin is stored?
Many people comment about how bitcoin has no army standing behind it ... well maybe no army with guns but as is now widely acknowledged cyber-war is a major concern for nation states.
Who would you want to have backing your digital currency? The people who can hack or the innumerate?
Bitcoiners are not powerless to "back" their currency if the occasion should arise. Mercenaries from the alphabet agencies can be paid in bitcoins if they prefer also of course. The idea is the weapon.
The more I think about it, the more I wonder how far the government will go to stop it. In the US, they've already once confiscated our gold using the threat of fines and imprisonmnet.
The great breakthrough with Bitcoin is the censorship-resistant nature. If you are unacquainted with GATA then I highly suggest you spend some time reading the article titled Why I Helped GATA Accept Bitcoins – Economic Censorship and Free Speech. And the 15 minute speech by Dr. Edwin Vieira (who has 4 degrees from Harvard and practices before the US Supreme Court) is excellent as is the other speech by Robert Landis another Harvard trained attorney.
Yes, I do consider myself a (peaceful) revolutionary.
Yes, we're the revolutionists.
Yes, I do consider myself a (peaceful) revolutionary.
Max Keiser has a good peice on this topic: http://rt.com/op-edge/bitcoin-versus-government-keiser-189/
The more I think about it, the more I wonder how far the government will go to stop it. In the US, they've already once confiscated our gold using the threat of fines and imprisonmnet. Could they do the same here? Wouldn't it be as simple as taking our safes, our computers, and cracking our password management software to know where our Bitcoin is stored?
Those who hide beneath the radar would probably be fine, but what about those who stand up and use their real names (as I have done)? How many more Aaron Swartz situations will we have?
The more I think about it, the more I wonder how far the government will go to stop it. In the US, they've already once confiscated our gold using the threat of fines and imprisonmnet. Could they do the same here? Wouldn't it be as simple as taking our safes, our computers, and cracking our password management software to know where our Bitcoin is stored?
Those who hide beneath the radar would probably be fine, but what about those who stand up and use their real names (as I have done)? How many more Aaron Swartz situations will we have?
Yes, bitcoin (or more generally, blockchain-style distributed authoritative record systems) isn't just about money. Sure, that's the first application, but see Mike Hearn's work on things like distributed markets and smart property. And bitcoinx.
Mind = blown.
I've seen comments here and there about financial tools being built on top of Bitcoin, but I haven't looked into it yet. Those links are a great starting point.
A stock market with no centralization? Loans with no middle men? This really is revolutionary technology.
Thanks for sharing.
Also read up on OpenTransactions and MultiSig, as those are two protocol hooks that will likely be implemented relatively soon, which enable a lot of cool things (eg, traditional banking services on top of the blockchain, escrow natively).
Two incredible things about bitcoin:
1) The proof-of-work consensus is really a novel solution to the Byzantine Generals' problem in computer science (which was discussed in Satoshi's original announcement thread: http://www.mail-archive.com/cryptography%40metzdowd.com/msg09997.html ).
2) #1 enables humanity's first authoritative record system not under control by any single entity. The first application is money, but as discussed, there are potentially many more. I think voting has been discussed... The entire problem with e-voting is the issue of who counts the votes and/or makes the machines. Well, what if you went into the voting booth, and your vote got recorded on the blockchain. Problem solved. Does this make a pure Athenian style democracy more practical (taking the debatable need for a state as a precondition)?
I edited out the part about those still in the system being our enemy. I don't think they are.
Nope, they are not our enemies, because "they" are "us".
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Are we revolutionaries?
Is water wet ? Yes, bitcoin (or more generally, blockchain-style distributed authoritative record systems) isn't just about money. Sure, that's the first application, but see Mike Hearn's work on things like distributed markets and smart property. And bitcoinx.
Mind = blown.
I've seen comments here and there about financial tools being built on top of Bitcoin, but I haven't looked into it yet. Those links are a great starting point.
A stock market with no centralization? Loans with no middle men? This really is revolutionary technology.
Thanks for sharing.
To the extent that any of my actions have been 'revolutionary' it is only that way in that I have tried to support an experimental solution which, if proven, could open the door for a family of solutions which may to some extent break the grip that the powerful have on the masses.
Yes, bitcoin (or more generally, blockchain-style distributed authoritative record systems) isn't just about money. Sure, that's the first application, but see Mike Hearn's work on things like distributed markets and smart property. And bitcoinx.
Since I've not done any Bitcoin development I don't consider myself anything more than an opportunist.
To the extent that any of my actions have been 'revolutionary' it is only that way in that I have tried to support an experimental solution which, if proven, could open the door for a family of solutions which may to some extent break the grip that the powerful have on the masses. I actually feel that, at the time I write this, Bitcoin has succeeded in this regard. Again, as a proof-of-concept, and a general one, rather than as a durable final solution. Also as an inspiration.
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I've had the same issue getting friends involved. Took me about a year's worth of reading, not just about bitcoin, but revisiting macroeconomics and finance in general, before I had enough confidence to recommend strongly to friends and family. ...
I've had the same issue getting friends involved. Took me about a year's worth of reading, not just about bitcoin, but revisiting macroeconomics and finance in general, before I had enough confidence to recommend strongly to friends and family. ...
I never did reach that level of confidence, and probably never will. To risky for normal people IMHO. Some of the BTC I bought, however, I did with an eye toward supplying them to friends/family if they ever go anywhere and said parties missed the boat. And this I have started to do in certain cases.
who always creates the revolutions and revolutionaries?
Hah! I just pulled up a random relevant image result from Google search for this post, though I did kind of snicker at the eyeball. Your green triangle made me lol.
I gave away a bunch of casascius coins over the holidays to get the conversation started. Works great.
That's a great idea. I hope I make enough money to be able to give them away as well. I'd love the title of Bitcoin Robin Hood.
Most wars have been fought over currency.
They will fight. Our concept is sound, but we are still small.
They will fight. Our concept is sound, but we are still small.
I edited out the part about those still in the system being our enemy. I don't think they are. I do think, however, we should be having tough conversations with our financial advisers, with our parents, with our bankers. We should continue to look for reasons this won't work and promote the reasons it will.
If you haven't already, you should tell your friends about Bitcoin. You should blog about it. I was hesitant at first because I didn't know if it would crash tomorrow (with my friends holding the bag). As my confidence has grown, I've since focused the conversation on fiat currencies and the problems Bitcoin solves (instead of the current MtGox price). For those who understand that conversation, they are getting excited about Bitcoin.
Regardless of what happens, it's been a fun ride so far. I've throughly enjoyed learning from you all.
Spot-on. And yes, lots of people around here have thought of this as a revolution. From the very beginning. It's interesting to read through Satoshi's original announcement of bitcoin on the cypherpunks list. It's clear that from the start (gotta read the whole thread), he realized it was a potential game-changer, with far reaching implications, as opposed to just a technical toy: http://www.mail-archive.com/cryptography%40metzdowd.com/msg09959.html
I've had the same issue getting friends involved. Took me about a year's worth of reading, not just about bitcoin, but revisiting macroeconomics and finance in general, before I had enough confidence to recommend strongly to friends and family. A few friends are now seriously into bitcoin, and some family members have some. I gave away a bunch of casascius coins over the holidays to get the conversation started. Works great.
The events in Cyprus have obviously made it easier to make the case for bitcoin instead of fiat. I found myself evangelizing such to my local grocery store clerk. She seemed genuinely interested.
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