Topic: ARGENTINA - THE 1ST COUNTRY WITH A BITCOIN BASED ECONOMY? (Read 2425 times)
Dollars buy in countries with unstable currencies to protect their savings. Why in Argentina to buy bitcoin? You will store in your bitcoin savings? Who can give a reliable forecast for the half year the year ahead what will be the price of bitcoin?
The best thing for btc is to be associated with stable fiat
For the masses sure, but I think most of us would prefer to be independent from the government.
we search independence from BANCGSTERS not from goverments
Since there are only going to be 22 million Bitcoins, won't it be annoying for the masses to deal with decimals? That could be a legitimate negative to common people.
I see what you are saying.Sell me a loaf of bread.
Okay, pay 0.00000001 please.
Huh?
........
try again
Sell me a loaf of bread.
Okay, pay one satoski please.
A loaf of bread right now, at least in the U.S. is about .0025; not that hard. If you can't count that, you shouldn't be using Bitcoin.
http://www.ustr.gov/countries-regions/americas/argentina
It looks like Argentina buys twice as much from US as the US buys from Argentina. Purchases of "services" from the US, as opposed to hard goods, is way up as a percentage.
U.S. imports of private commercial services* (i.e., excluding military and government) were $1.7 billion in 2011 (latest data available), up 12.9% ($192 million) from 2010, and up 48% from 2000 level. The other private services (led by business, professional and technical services) and the travel categories led U.S. services imports from Argentina.
Some of those services could be transacted in bitcoin. It only takes the parties involved choosing to do so...
US travel agents could arrange partially bitcoin paid tours, hotels, excursions, etc in Argentina. Just one example.
Since there are only going to be 22 million Bitcoins, won't it be annoying for the masses to deal with decimals? That could be a legitimate negative to common people.
I see what you are saying.Sell me a loaf of bread.
Okay, pay 0.00000001 please.
Huh?
........
try again
Sell me a loaf of bread.
Okay, pay one satoski please.
A loaf of bread right now, at least in the U.S. is about .0025; not that hard. If you can't count that, you shouldn't be using Bitcoin.
Since there are only going to be 22 million Bitcoins, won't it be annoying for the masses to deal with decimals? That could be a legitimate negative to common people.
I see what you are saying.Sell me a loaf of bread.
Okay, pay 0.00000001 please.
Huh?
........
try again
Sell me a loaf of bread.
Okay, pay one satoski please.
Since there are only going to be 22 million Bitcoins, won't it be annoying for the masses to deal with decimals? That could be a legitimate negative to common people.
Using Localbitcoins. Due to the incredibly high crime (thanks to the fucking narco-government) not too many are willing to risk their lives in a meeting with a stranger.
What crime risk can be if you meet in the public place in daytime?! The only one I can imagine is the stranger will be a cop 
Ergo, nothing to worry about from cops. You'd want to get one or a couple to hang out where the local transfers were made. Give them a steady income.
What nobody will be understanding is how rapidly the onset of an inflation like this will be. If I was down there, I'd likely go get a car or two on fixed interest loan.
I am not advocating illegal activity, this is all well understood and has been the subject of numerous books.
fiction - black obelish, remarque
non fiction - dying of money, parssons
Using Localbitcoins. Due to the incredibly high crime (thanks to the fucking narco-government) not too many are willing to risk their lives in a meeting with a stranger.
What crime risk can be if you meet in the public place in daytime?! The only one I can imagine is the stranger will be a cop The best thing for btc is to be associated with stable fiat
For the masses sure, but I think most of us would prefer to be independent from the government.
The best thing for btc is to be associated with stable fiat
It won't be the country choosing BTC but the people, because the official currency is simply "untrustable".
I'm afraid the government will do all it can to stop the rise of BTC, like making exchanges illegal. It's a matter of honor as the success of BTC could only highlight the failure of all politicians, and Mrs Kirschner would not like that.
Argentina needs much more than a currency change, Argentina most likely needs a revolution.
I'm afraid the government will do all it can to stop the rise of BTC, like making exchanges illegal. It's a matter of honor as the success of BTC could only highlight the failure of all politicians, and Mrs Kirschner would not like that.
Argentina needs much more than a currency change, Argentina most likely needs a revolution.
the problem is that no one wants to hold a currency inflating 20 or 30% per month. That's not a currency, it's a nuisance. So the only point to sell btc there could be to buy real assets. But then one could better buy them directly in btc.
Currently, the majority of people there take local currency, therefore it would be advantageous to keep money in BTC for stability, and then sell it to buy hard assets, and goods.
the problem is that no one wants to hold a currency inflating 20 or 30% per month. That's not a currency, it's a nuisance. So the only point to sell btc there could be to buy real assets. But then one could better buy them directly in btc.
And then imagine this was one of the richest countries in the world early 20th century. Wealthy people in Argentina would pick a European style house from a catalogue. Parts would be produced in Germany, then shipped to Argentina and be build there. (I got a source for this actually, his grandfather worked in the trade, but he himself is in his eighties already) Europa was Argentina's China back then.
And yet here they are queuing for dollars. And yet here we are in Europe believing in some divine way forward onwards from 1945.
Is paypal operating in Argentina? If so, then perhaps it would be the easy conduit for inflow of bitcoin. I understand the risks of transaction reversal with Paypal.And yet here they are queuing for dollars. And yet here we are in Europe believing in some divine way forward onwards from 1945.
Maybe the reach of the Argentine government extends into the workings of Paypal. Certainly it would for the peso:USD currency translations, but that would not matter for a paypal:bitcoin transaction.
http://baexpats.org/topic/25466-how-to-use-paypal-to-get-money-out/
Basically about PP in Argentina; However, PP:BTC is never a good idea...
And then imagine this was one of the richest countries in the world early 20th century. Wealthy people in Argentina would pick a European style house from a catalogue. Parts would be produced in Germany, then shipped to Argentina and be build there. (I got a source for this actually, his grandfather worked in the trade, but he himself is in his eighties already) Europa was Argentina's China back then.
And yet here they are queuing for dollars. And yet here we are in Europe believing in some divine way forward onwards from 1945.
Is paypal operating in Argentina? If so, then perhaps it would be the easy conduit for inflow of bitcoin. I understand the risks of transaction reversal with Paypal.And yet here they are queuing for dollars. And yet here we are in Europe believing in some divine way forward onwards from 1945.
Maybe the reach of the Argentine government extends into the workings of Paypal. Certainly it would for the peso:USD currency translations, but that would not matter for a paypal:bitcoin transaction.
And then imagine this was one of the richest countries in the world early 20th century. Wealthy people in Argentina would pick a European style house from a catalogue. Parts would be produced in Germany, then shipped to Argentina and be build there. (I got a source for this actually, his grandfather worked in the trade, but he himself is in his eighties already) Europa was Argentina's China back then.
And yet here they are queuing for dollars. And yet here we are in Europe believing in some divine way forward onwards from 1945.
And yet here they are queuing for dollars. And yet here we are in Europe believing in some divine way forward onwards from 1945.
Argentina needs a tipping point, an event that pushes the first snowflake down the mountain.
The ingredients are all there: inflation, corruption, capital controls, untrustworthy currency and indebtedness to the 1st world vultures.
From my limited understanding Argentina has been screwed for the best part of 20 years and the 'help' given by the IMF et al has just made things worse. It is often mentioned that the deals the IMF / World Bank cuts with distressed countries only ends up enriching a few major players and screwing the people.
Further, since the 08 GFC, US policies of QE, ZIRP & currency devaluation have increased the risks in EM's massively because once the music slows down money gets the hell out and even the most inventive policy backfires unless it toes the line.
Overall though, I think latin america could benefit enormously. It is generally a left leaning continent and by using bitcoin could give some power back to the population.
The ingredients are all there: inflation, corruption, capital controls, untrustworthy currency and indebtedness to the 1st world vultures.
From my limited understanding Argentina has been screwed for the best part of 20 years and the 'help' given by the IMF et al has just made things worse. It is often mentioned that the deals the IMF / World Bank cuts with distressed countries only ends up enriching a few major players and screwing the people.
Further, since the 08 GFC, US policies of QE, ZIRP & currency devaluation have increased the risks in EM's massively because once the music slows down money gets the hell out and even the most inventive policy backfires unless it toes the line.
Overall though, I think latin america could benefit enormously. It is generally a left leaning continent and by using bitcoin could give some power back to the population.
Here's an interesting paper about Argentina's long history with alternative currency:
http://www.xolimited.com/download/rpt/26.pdf
Some of these schemes look awkwardly familiar to bitcoin (we basically only added p2p technology)
Too bad I'm not at Uni anymore otherwise I'd have a nice topic for a paper or 3.
Anyways the above goes to show that Argentinians will be more easily adopting bitcoin since they already have experience with similar alternative currencies.
http://www.xolimited.com/download/rpt/26.pdf
Some of these schemes look awkwardly familiar to bitcoin (we basically only added p2p technology)
Too bad I'm not at Uni anymore otherwise I'd have a nice topic for a paper or 3.
Anyways the above goes to show that Argentinians will be more easily adopting bitcoin since they already have experience with similar alternative currencies.
Perhaps, but the poster lamented about the difficulting of "getting bitcoins", and another mentioned their "high cost in pesos".
I do not think these are valid concerns, rather the ONLY concern is do/would the people of the country trust bitcoin, the currency for which transactions do not require trust.
If so, then (hypothetically) the entire country's substitute currency could consist of only the then available bitcoin stock, or say, for debate purposes, one bitcoin. The entire country could run on one bitcoin subdivided as required.
This would create a tremendous disparity between goods priced in Argentina in bitcoin, and goods elsewhere. In these circumstances, suppose 1 satoshi would buy a color TV. Bitcoins would move into Argentina to buy these goods, until before too long, the street value of bitcoins would reach an equilibrium.
It would be wrong to seek to have that equilibrium before the currency took off. Particularly in a situation where the country is suffering from an oppressive government, that's not going to be the way it happens.
So my advices is "Begin trading. Now, with what you got."
Here's an interesting paper about Argentina's long history with alternative currency:
http://www.xolimited.com/download/rpt/26.pdf
Some of these schemes look awkwardly familiar to bitcoin (we basically only added p2p technology)
Too bad I'm not at Uni anymore otherwise I'd have a nice topic for a paper or 3.
Anyways the above goes to show that Argentinians will be more easily adopting bitcoin since they already have experience with similar alternative currencies.
http://www.xolimited.com/download/rpt/26.pdf
Some of these schemes look awkwardly familiar to bitcoin (we basically only added p2p technology)
Too bad I'm not at Uni anymore otherwise I'd have a nice topic for a paper or 3.
Anyways the above goes to show that Argentinians will be more easily adopting bitcoin since they already have experience with similar alternative currencies.
Don't bitcoins go for a few thousand dollars in Argentina right now?
Maybe, idk. But probably the few ones that already have dollars would not trade them for bitcoins. The problem resides in trying to buy btc with argentine peso. If you solve this you might be ending up "bitcoinizing" the entire economy
Gift cards, starbucks cards, walmart or amazon cards?
obviously these would have to be useful in other countries, thus their demonination could not be the argentinian peso.
As far as I know Gift cards only work in the country that it was purchased in.
Services.
Artist, editing, copy work, web page design, programming, data entry. Any of these could be done in Argentina and paid for partly or wholly in bitcoin by a US based firm. Ask: what business is being done in India for the US? What in Russia? etc.
Give it some thought. These are the better options since they represent new and novel sources of income into the country, eg new cash flow. Improved trade balance.
As opposed to moving money inside the country into different forms.
Peso <--> USD <--> BTC>
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