Ark: An Alternative Privacy-preserving Second Layer Solution

Kryptowerk

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Disobey.

Quote from: Kryptowerk on May 30, 2023, 07:27:14 AM

As I understand this is currently in the very early concept stages or are there already first implementations running on testnet?

From the website: "Although Ark is a completely new design, it is interoperable with the Lightning Network, which complements it."
Why would it complement lightning and not - after a period of adoption of course - slowly make it obsolete?

Can anyone describe the up- and downsides in layman's terms?

I noticed there is another (few days older) thread on the same topic.
There is also a post answering my first question: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.62333142

I'd suggest to close this topic and continue discussion in the other one.

NotATether

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bitcoincleanup.com / bitmixlist.org

Quote from: cryptosize on May 29, 2023, 01:27:10 PM

Oops, yet another red flag:

https://twitter.com/brqgoo/status/1661396918864424960

Roll Eyes

How is criticism of the LN and previously supporting big blocks a "red flag", as you put it?

I do share his criticism for LN inbound capacity, though, which I've previously ranted about here.

Kryptowerk

legendary

Activity: 2030

Merit: 1401

Disobey.

As I understand this is currently in the very early concept stages or are there already first implementations running on testnet?

From the website: "Although Ark is a completely new design, it is interoperable with the Lightning Network, which complements it."
Why would it complement lightning and not - after a period of adoption of course - slowly make it obsolete?

Can anyone describe the up- and downsides in layman's terms?

cryptosize

sr. member

Activity: 1624

Merit: 294

Oops, yet another red flag:

https://twitter.com/brqgoo/status/1661396918864424960

Roll Eyes

cryptosize

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Activity: 1624

Merit: 294

Quote from: paid2 on May 29, 2023, 12:14:49 PM

Quote from: cryptosize on May 28, 2023, 03:43:00 PM

I read some caveats about double-spending on their FAQ. Huh

Yeah you're right :

Quote

Users need to wait for on-chain confirmations to consider a payment ‘final’.

Seems strange, possibility of double-spending could be huge, but isn't it exactly the same process with LN ?

LN is prone to double-spending?

How so?

paid2

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Crypto Swap Exchange

Quote from: BlackHatCoiner on May 27, 2023, 03:51:27 PM

What do you think.

I find the idea really interesting and good, and if I've understood it correctly it would make it possible to avoid providing liquidity as we do with LN?

On the other hand, the fact that there's no public code at the moment, and the lack of responsiveness from the team over the past week, leaves me sceptical as to whether they'll manage to find enough devs to contribute to the project.

Quote from: cryptosize on May 28, 2023, 03:43:00 PM

I read some caveats about double-spending on their FAQ. Huh

Yeah you're right :

Quote

Users need to wait for on-chain confirmations to consider a payment ‘final’.

Seems strange, possibility of double-spending could be huge, but isn't it exactly the same process with LN ?

cryptosize

sr. member

Activity: 1624

Merit: 294

The 1 million dollar question: does it have franky's Seal of Approval? Grin

On a serious note, I'm not sure I understood how it works... maybe someone needs to write an ELI5. Lightning is very simple to understand if you know how BGP routing works.

Is Ark centralized? I read some caveats about double-spending on their FAQ. Huh

Also, the fact they don't accept BTC donations via Ark is a bit worrying... it seems they don't trust it enough yet.

garlonicon

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Merit: 1909

Quote

Not really a downside as a "watchtower" program can be made that inputs your wallet password and the refreshing date in the future, which is stored with AES encryption in memory.

If you can use transaction locktime field or OP_CHECKLOCKTIMEVERIFY/OP_CHECKSEQUENCEVERIFY, then it will be better. If not, then this is the proper way of doing that: https://gwern.net/self-decrypting

vjudeu

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Merit: 1529

Quote

Every second, the watchtower will attempt to decrypt the cipher using the current ISO 8601 time looking like "YYYY-mm-ddTHH:MM:SS" as the key.

This key would be very weak, you could use 64-bit UNIX timestamp, and it would be as weak as well (but then, at least it will be resistant to timezone issues).

Quote

nobody will be able to use it unless they also know the unlock time, even if they have hacked the watchtower on a later date after the timer has started

Not really. Your program will need to decrypt it for every second, so your decryption could not take more time than that. The simplest way of getting the current time, and trying to decrypt it, can cause it to never be decrypted, if you will be unlucky, and your process will have a lower priority for a few seconds, when it should be decrypted.

Another thing is, any attacker could scan it faster than one decryption per second, it could do 1000 decryptions per second, and reach it sooner. Also, if there will be some default locking time, for example two weeks, and the attacker will know that some file on your server was created one week ago (by checking metadata), then it will use one week offset, and scan only a range of time, and then will get to the solution much faster than the official algorithm.

NotATether

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bitcoincleanup.com / bitmixlist.org

Quote from: ?? on ??

The developer reason for developing it was as a result of his issue with lightning network

Quote

I’m working on a new lightning wallet. It removes pretty much all friction lightning currently faces:
1.Backups
2.Interactivity
3.Offline receiving
4.Receiver privacy
5.On-chain footprint

well if that's the case then let's join forces Cheesy

I am coincidentally also working on a Lightning wallet (as long as it is written in Python as development of the wallet core has already begun).

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote

The only downside is that Ark require users to come online and "refresh" their coins every few weeks, otherwise the ASP can sweep the funds.

is this the side effect of removing on-chain footprint?

Not really a downside as a "watchtower" program can be made that inputs your wallet password and the refreshing date in the future, which is stored with AES encryption in memory.

The key to this cipher is the time stored in ISO 8601 format as a byte string. It is promptly discarded from memory.

Every second, the watchtower will attempt to decrypt the cipher using the current ISO 8601 time looking like "YYYY-mm-ddTHH:MM:SS" as the key.

Naturally this will only succeed at the requisite time at which the wallet is to be unlocked - following which the coins inside the ASP can be refreshed.

If at any point you come online, you can simply terminate the watchtower program, and the encrypted wallet password will be destroyed and nobody will be able to use it unless they also know the unlock time, even if they have hacked the watchtower on a later date after the timer has started. But the unlock time has already been discarded after it was used to encrypt the wallet password, meaning the deleted copy of the encrypted password is now unrecoverable.

This particular part is my own design, not Burak's. I haven't told him about this yet.

BlackHatCoiner

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Farewell, Leo

In 22nd of May, Burak Keceli sent an email to the bitcoin-dev mailing list, describing an alternative second layer solution which is far more scalable, private, requires no interactivity and does not introduce liquidity constraints; essentially superior to lightning in every aspect. It consumes much less space on-chain, works like Chaumian eCash without being a central point of failure, and makes use of shared transaction outputs. To enable anonymous, scalable and off-chain transactions, it uses virtual transaction outputs (or vTXO).

It is in very early stage, and the team behind desperately needs Bitcoin developers willing to work on it.

Overview of Ark: https://www.arkpill.me/
Technical details: https://www.arkpill.me/deep-dive
Introductory email: https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2023-May/021694.html

What do you think.

Topic: Ark: An Alternative Privacy-preserving Second Layer Solution (Read 238 times)