Topic: As A Dog Returneth To His Vomit - Quickseller Reloaded - page 2. (Read 2377 times)

I have a question:

If account trading is banned (and assuming this ban could be enforced), then you could not sell your account.

If a major reason why people sell their accounts is because they need money to cover some expense AND

If a major reason why many people scam is because they need money (some people are just scumbags and scam because they are too lazy to work for themselves) THEN

If account trading is banned, wouldn't we see an increase in the number of scams and scam attempts? Or is my logic somehow flawed?

I'm sorry, did you bother reading the thread? It's, frankly, insulting to have to repeat myself in every post.


It's structurally analogous, I'm good with it.


Please see the topic of this thread. Quickseller makes a great poster boy for prohibiting dealing in forum accounts, hence I use him as an example of how this shit works out in practice. Not sure why this should be surprising.


Assumed accounts get banned, am I wrong? By "you" i meant "you, the forum staff."


Having no clearly defined rules means no one is sure if what he's doing is wrong - sort of how most tyrannical states operate. An oligarch making up rules as they go along breeds general disease and criminality, that should be self-evident.
 
 

Ok, what is your argument then? I keep making points and you claim you never stated otherwise, so what are your points so I can adress them?

Its a bad analogy, you can't compare killing someone to making alt accounts.

There we go, you have a chip on your shoulder about Quickseller, ok. While you state it as fact, who said that I ban accounts? Let alone for unknown transgressions. Yep there aren't steadfast rules, because then people could abuse loopholes. Rather than unforgiving rules, we have a group of people decide on bans and ample warnings are given. Common sense and well thought out policies are what the forum runs by.

I've already addressed why having multiple accounts isn't against the rules, but I'm waiting for you to address specific points that I can then address since I'm not allowed to make examples or address anything that you haven't specifically said.

Ok, hypothetically, we forbid having multiple accounts. What happens then? People then sell accounts through IRC, Ebay, ecrypted messages via PM, etc and the practice continues. We can't really disuade people from selling accounts, not in any reasonable manner.

Saying a rule is retarded but not explaining why you think so, even though I've given multiple valid reasons for why it isn't retarded isn't really helping. I could explain very throughly why you can't draw comparisons between murder and account creation, but I wouldn't want to put words in your mouth, so I'll wait for you to ask.

You're asking me to do the impossible, but what about this guy, TAT? https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/thickasthieves-79242
He hasn't posted at all in the past year, or posted much after Neo and Bee fiasco, which he bootstrapped on his sterling reputation, did a runner. Didn't sound much like himself in his last posts, either.
But again, you're making me defend arguments I've never made, so sorry if I sound tepid


Why the need? satoshi->profile->posts & search. Though Google would likely be much easier. Just assumed that anyone citing Satoshi like grammy quotes her Red letter Bible would sort'a know what he's looking for.

I don't think the Global Moderators have access to the raw sql database like Theymos does, so he probably has access to the same tools you do.

Edit:  SaltySpitoon beat me to it, with almost exactly the same words.  

I dont have a magic search button to search through thousands of specified threads, I've got the same tools as anyone else. Forum policy was influenced very heavily by Satoshi since he created the original forum policy, I dont really wish to get into semantics, as you have addressed a single problem, account selling, and I wish to address that. As I said, please provide a single example of where a hero account that was purchased netted hundreds if not thousands of Bitcoins?

Equating alt accounts to killing people is assanine. If someone kills another person, there is physical evidence and police forces with resources at their disposal. This is a forum, we aren't going to track people down who make new accounts and put them in prision. Not that there is any intention to end account selling, but if we were looking for a solution, what would be your proposal to end account selling? How could you possibly stop people from making an account on a website? IP bans? Banning Proxies/Tor? There is absolutely no way to ban account selling, and its not a big deal. If we banned account selling, 95% of the forum users that knew how to avoid getting caught would then be able to cause more damage by creating new accounts. As it is, people trade with caution with anyone.

You're implying that some bad arguments were made against forum-approved account dealing? I'm sure, though I'm not the one making them, so feel no need to rationalize/defend them. Many fools in every camp.


I'm sorry, but I find it difficult to accept that a bitcointalk mod can't find a Satoshi quote. That's like a revival preacher not being able to quote the Bible. As I've pointed out before, I do not remember him saying anything regarding alt accounts.Please take the time to find it & make me eat my words.


I'll explain why this is nonsense. The sort of scams perpetrated with hero accounts net their owners hundreds and thousands of BTC, not the pocket change dribbling in as they post which you're describing.

>idiot
>ass
Avoid using those words when speaking to me. Results may surprise you.


Some disagree.
http://s18.postimg.org/o5qd5iokp/Capture.png


You can't fully stop it. Just like you can't fully stop people killing each other.
This doesn't imply that murder should be legalized.
 

Sure. Caveat: Just as the case with murder, the number of incidents tends to decline when no longer condoned by the powers that be. And the malefactors could be penalized when discovered. Now? I get to look at them spam & scam.

It's the gestalt of paid ads, buying & selling of accounts, and financially invested mods.
Difficult to speak out against ad campaigns while participating in them, no? Would probably also be against the campaign rules

So if you care about the topic, why not talk to me and get answers rather than being an ass? If you want me to talk to you like an adult, I expect the same curtosy. I have no problem with those who disagree with policies, but if you are going to use unnecessary insults, why should I take the time to answer you? There are plenty of people who speak out against issues that they see the forum having, but they don't get banned. You don't get banned for not liking what we do here, you get banned for being disruptive. Far too many people try to make a point by getting themselves banned for behavior that is completely unnecessary, and then they cry abuse. You don't own the forums, Theymos does, moderators just try to help the forums by keeping the boards clean of off topic crap and things that will get the forum operators in trouble with the law, IE death threats, people selling drugs, etc. I explained why account selling is allowed, but I will do so in more detail, you are welcome to refute points, but this time if you want to be treated like an adult, act like one.

1) We can't stop it. There is no way to stop account selling. If we ban account selling, what will people do? They will sell their accounts not in the public. They will sell them off site through IM or what ever, and people will use Tor or Proxies or whatever to avoid getting caught. Allowing it, people can trade accounts openly so others know that it is going on.

2) The good outweighs the bad. Everyone knows that scams happen, so people are already on their toes. People always fear that a trusted user is going to sell their account and someone will scam with it, yet no one has pointed out any case where that has ever happened. Just like you are using an alt account to avoid people going after your main account, that is a good reason to have alt accounts. If you have an unpopular idea and don't want that associated with a personal or professional account, you can voice your opinions with an alt account. That was what Satoshi mentioned in passing, I'd quote that for you, but that would require hours of sifting through old threads, so I mentioned I believe that is the case, but I can't site it for you at the moment.

Paid advertising signatures are annoying, of all people I agree with you there. I spend hours per day dealing with it. That is another issue that is being worked on. We don't want to remove paid advertising signatures all together, but something will be done to limit the spam. But to my point that you called stupid. If I can make .3 BTC per month with a hero account with a paid advertising signature, that increases the value of accounts. If you can make 1 BTC with an account in 3 months, the account is going to be worth more than it was without paid advertising signatures. Scammers will then have to pay more for older accounts, and if they fail to scam, their account gets marked with negative trust, and they are out 1+ BTC or whatever accounts are selling for.

You know, I like you bro. But isn't the issue here the monetization of posts? Aren't sig campaigns the real sauce of this?

No, you're gauging this wrong. I'm not afraid of this account getting banned, hence will not tolerate your grasping condescension.
Respect others, and remember that not everyone here is a teenager.

And lol @ "I've been here for years" - I've been here for years too.

So if I'm gauging this right, you don't actually care about your OP, and you are trying to get yourself banned so you can call abuse and be a martyr. You know most people are smart enough to see through the bullshit. If you actually care about account selling, try responding again without the unnecessary language. I've been here for years, I'm not stupid enough to get into a flame war with a newbie account that is trying to make a point.

No, it's something we plan on changing.


Bullshit. Sauce?


Already covered, pay attention. And lrn 2 polite when addressing ur betters, faggot.
 

No, i haven't considered it. For the same reason I haven't considered sticking my dick in a rat trap -- it's stupid.

Account selling isn't against the rules, and its not something that we plan on changing. First off, the idea of allowing alt accounts was a principal created by Satoshi when he created the forum I'm quite sure. Anonymity doesn't exist, but pseudonymity does. Just like you aren't using your main account for fear of backlash for acting like an idiot, there are valid reasons for having multiple accounts. Second, it isn't something that the staff or admins can control, people are going to buy/sell accounts regardless, so why make a rule against something you can't enforce? Paid advertising signatures are indeed an annoyance, and thats another issue that is being worked on, but you said at the best that is what accounts are purchased for. Have you considered that paid advertising signatures give value to accounts that makes scamming more expensive for scammers to attempt?

ELI5 version:
The point is to change the forum policy regarding buying and selling of user accounts.
At best, these accounts are used to pollute this forum with pay-to-post sig spam.
At worst, these accounts are used for scamming.
Allowing this shit to go on in the open also makes us look retarded

Edit: Turn over any stone on this forum, you'll find a budding turd Welcome to the forum, douchebag.

so what the point this thread? are you vindictive to someone? are you looking for revenge?whatever it is, wish this may be useful.
love and peace from me 

We should rename this section in "Quickseller & Meta" // Sarcasm

However, I think the freedom (of speech) will prevail for ever in this forum and this type of thread will be really useful (because everyone will know the truth about some user).

I do have a problem with that, my new friend, as you might have already guessed. And, as you can see, I'm beginning to deal with it.
Not going to let this forum degenerate into a cesspool of spam & scam


Sure. Excepting the distractions of [several?] white knight[ s] of dubious motivation, this thread is about forum policies.
In particular, the policy adressing the buying & selling of bitcointalk accounts.

Nope! Am just a account buyer/seller , i buy them at low and sell them , i never make account , neither do i have time to join Sig from other accounts.
So i just buy/sell , you got a problem with it ! deal with your problems . Anyways since this is not your main either , let me know if you're looking for another account
Why am i even explaining this to a troller like you