Topic: asic hardware buyers association (Read 2314 times)

That's not a bad idea... It would definitely allow more people to participate. - Will start using the irc chat in the meantime. gonna have to check that out

a skype group would do or webinar where someone speak, shares and ask question. That way communications flow faster. 

I have 32 credits for sale at 6btc. PM me.

the channel #bitcointalk.org is created in the freenode-irc .. feel free to talk there :-)

This is really something we need to project out, so that multiple people can schedule around their lives the time to attend. It would be great if we could get some kinda voting system together to find out when is the most perferred month to meet, from there we could go ahead and nail out a specific date, and actually make something happen. Perhaps one of those free survey sites would suffice for answering this question.

I'm interested in helping organize, but I'm no EE so I have little expertise in this area to bring to the table.  How can we get these things started?  I guess maybe a meetup is in order for all who are willing to organize.  I'll be on vacation next week but after that will look into getting something started.

That would be awesome, could have certain regions specialize in certain components. A group ordering hub and use something like the dell just-in-time model for delivery. would be very efficient, once it got rolling

Form a Co-Op... link co-ops around the world. Build our own chips and share open source boards and chip designs. Win win for the consumers.

nice idea

I think this would be a great idea, however just buying equipment doesn't exactly increase the value of the currency which is more important than just making sure we don't get screwed on the hardware. If anything we are going to cause devaluation of the currency in the coming months and if we don't start thinking about this the only one that will be able to stay in the game are those that do it for hobby.

Assuming we want to work towards this, we should set the bar high. Considering we are essentially going to create the money out of thin air, we have an excellent opportunity if we all work together to write our own check on nearly every aspect of the market but this will require a percentage to be reinvested. Picture this:

We start looking at this as a business. First, we do exactly as you suggested and begin to collectively bargain for hardware, power, co-op hosting locations, etc... making sure we get the rock bottom lowest price possible through group buying. In addition we should consider actually getting a lawyer to write up some shit so that next time we collectively put down 3.5 million plus into pre-orders(cough* KNCMINER), we actually get a binding contract to ensure the goods are delivered in a timely manner. This is afterall, business...

Furthermore, We collect dues from everyone who is a member and put them into a community pool where the funds would be used for the following and possibly more:

1. Setting up events within major cities of the world where people can gather collectively to learn and share idea's regarding the industry how to expand it while having fun while we're at it - Think along the lines of an E3 convention or maybe DEFCON kinda thing. Instead of charging people admission however, we could require a small BTC purchase in order to enter the event. Inside we could have concession stands, shit to buy, etc inside where visitors could then use the BTC they just purchased to buy stuff and get their feet wet as to how the currency works all the while, taking a small percentage for the association. This would be a good noob learning tool for those who don't know about the currency, or how freaking easy it is to use.

2. Use a portion of the dues to setup a sort of micro banking network, owned by the collective association, yet ran by members who are willing to run it. the association funds the location in their area. This would serve a two-fold purpose. First, as a local exchange point where non-mining users could easily get in and out of BTC using their local currency, Second, this would serve as a way to generate even more profit than just the BTC face value through small exchange fees generated by the in and out transactions and would go back into the association pool. Each location would have to be considered on a case by case basis and voted on by a super majority of the members. All local laws would have to be followed.

3. The Association could serve as the biggest bitcoin escrow service for transactions between private parties. This is probably one of the biggest drawbacks of bitcoin from a trust standpoint. By becoming a trusted party which people can use to make sure they don't get swindled out of their BTC, we can open up the use possibility for bitcoin usage by more conservative businesses and again grow the value of the currency and create yet another method for which to draw funding back into the association pool

4. End game, we could literally make bitcoin the gold standard, and actually back BTC with hard currency. Since there is a finite amount of bitcoin that can be mined, we could go a step further and make each micro bank into a precious metals reserve. By doing so, we could transform BTC from a fiat currency into a completely mobile, decentralized banking system which will never go to zero value, and has at least partial hard value to it.

Just to make it clear, each member would be completely autonomous, to mine totally independently and this would not affect their mining strategy at all, it's sole purpose would be to strengthen the currency as a whole, no matter who's doing it, or how much they mine. While of course, those who contribute, reap the benefits of the Association.

Just my ideological two cents...

Any thoughts?

Actually, I just thought of a way to rate hashpower.  A rating could be a ratio of (Quality+Hash Power) / Time.  Wouldn't this give you an idea of what value you are getting from a company?  For example, if a product was labeled 20/1; that would be a Quality rating 10, Hash Power 10 (rated at launch of current version of product), Time: (1 out of a possible 10, derived by the value of floor( (Now() - BitcoinStartDate()) / BitcoinStartDate() ) * 10) floor(BitcoinStartDate() / (Now() - BitcoinStartDate()) ) * 10).  Then you could look at the value (say, 19/4 = a 4.75 out of a possible 20).  This would change with time, so BTC SMC would maintain a database of each product's rating that could be checked in real time for any product BTC SMC has ever rated.

I don't know, something like that.  


Edit; the Ratio (Now() - BitcoinStartDate()) / BitcoinStartDate() would get bigger over time.  It should have been StartDate / (Now() - BitcoinStartDate) which would get smaller over time. 

You make a good point (although pure bullshit was probably a little harsh).  Hashing power may be difficult to include in the rating.  But meeting UL expectations for hardware safety would be a good one, as well as what quality parts, how efficient it is (like power supplies).  These details aren't meant to be hashed out here; I'm just submitting my basic thought process that a company whose job is to monitor bitcoin mining hardware could be successful.  It could also monitor pools for network threat level or something.  I don't know the details, but it's apparent that the providers of infrastructure for mining are making a killing; so there should definitely be a market for assisting and protecting those investing in the companies who make the architecture.

Edit: Also, one argument I hear from government advocates is this "Who polices the companies and makes sure they aren't secretly fucking their customers because it's more profitable"?  My pro-free market response is that if there is demand, someone will figure out supply.

i think capital letters would be a good start

I don't want other miners to succeed. Mining is a zero sum game. The more coins they mine, the less I can mine.

that is what we are here for: to collect knowledge. your point is valid. i would suggest though to use a more constructive language. this is a brandnew idea.
how do similar approval stamps work when it comes to technical progress ? any rating is a rating for the present time, not forever. growing effectiveness is common, ratings are also. there must be a way.

I like the idea of BTC SMC (Bitcoin Small Miner Consortium)

But...
This is pure bullshit.
Because one day 50Mha/s per watt is excellent and you mark it A+ and 6 months later it would need marking C-, seriously, can't you see that?
You can rate communication and customer support with letters, but when it comes to efficiency you need scientific figures.

is 200MHa/W good or bad? in 10 months it will be pretty low-tech.

i like your contributions, thx a lot

when bitcoin will last, mining will last also. it is by far not to late to get started. we could gather independent experts that would attend the hardware producers/sellers location and check every detail. honest companies would welcome this, scammers not. every involved company would want to get approved. we can come up with rules of customer protection and this evolving industry would need to comply. for example: rules that apply to fair pre-order queues...

let´s say in two years the bitcoin price has ten folded. that would mean, that those 3600 bitcoins per day are worth 3,6 mio $. that´s more than a billion a year. that is h u g e.
we need to dive into this madness. this gold rush will go on and the stakes are getting bigger. it would be a service that helps the individual to decide and the companies to get approved. that looks like a powerfull position.

let´s collect ideas about
-what this organisation should accomplish.
-what legal form should we choose (non-profit, local offices, central office, etc)
-how should funding work

in a few weeks/months we meet and go on air.

check out all the threads about custom mining, difficulty, about avalon, knc, bfl --- this is epic and it tells us one thing: there is a need for orientation and guidance and professional approval.

I don't see why it's pointless.  At this point maybe since almost no one has shipped and those who have have shipped almost nothing, but as we progress, I'm assuming the market will mature and companies will set out to be more customer oriented and deliver on their promises in a more timely manner so as to make more profit long-term.  

Risk is part of the game of life.  Every action you take has a risk/reward analysis attached to it.  

Drive a car; risk getting killed in an accident, rewarded by quick transit to distant locations; reward/risk: high/moderately low
Drink water from your faucet; risk drinking tainted water, rewarded by slaked thirst; reward/risk: high/low
Skydive from an airplane; risk bouncing like a basketball and dying on impact, rewarded by intense feeling of freefall: reward/risk; very high/moderate
Pay a mining company lots of money to make an ASIC miner; risk losing all your money, rewarded by profits:  reward/risk: very very high/high

Up to you to determine risk, but some people value trusted advice and input to help determine the real risk.  Would you buy meat that's not FDA inspected?  Maybe, but many wouldn't.  JD Power and Associates makes big money with this exact business model.  UL same.  There is most definitely  a market for this stuff.

I agree as well. Good idea.

agreed and watching.