Topic: ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It - page 35. (Read 3917468 times)

See what I mean?  Even if FC admitted the scam was premeditated, jimmothy wouldn't believe him.

There is no logic behind jimmothy's assertion.  Only confirmation bias amplified by pride and the fear of having to admit being in the denial stage far longer than was reasonable.

I know there can not be any proof for this claim, but would you disclose any logic behind this? What makes you  so confident to state above?
 

I agree with this. It is absurd to say AM was a scam to start with. It could be a scam now but there are other explanations which make sense. Everyone in bitcoin land wants to call everything a scam but unless we have proof one way or another then making an assumption could lead down the wrong path.

This is the last time I'm wasting my time replying to you before putting you back on ignore because you've made it clear your not here for a discussion, but rather to spew the verbal diarrhea you are known for.

One last time, I AM NOT DENYING THE POSSIBILITY THAT FC TURNED INTO A SCAMMER.

I just find it unlikely given AM's solid track record/reputation of fighting to make things right. And I refuse to conclude it a scam based on the single fact that the CEO is missing (who conveniently is the only one with the private keys).

Here's my guesses as to what happen in order of plausibility:

1. Their story is legit and the hardware was stolen by some shady datacenter operator and FC was kidnapped or something.

2. FC was stealing electricity and he along with the hardware was taken by the police.

3. FC decided to pull an exit scam after Prisma 2.0's and BE300 turned out to be failures.

In no case do I think the scam was premeditated or that anyone other than FC was involved.

jimmothy will never admit he was wrong about HashFast being a scam and also wrong about AM not being a scam.  His ego and pride won't allow it.  The shame would destroy his fragile self-image.

He's rather keep moving the goalposts, second-guessing the 12+ bankruptcy lawyers and Court involved with HF's 'not-a-scam' judgment while demanding metaphysical certainty that AM is-a-scam.

Even if FC signed a confession and held it up with the requisite banana and shoe, jimmothy would claim it was shopped, or not the real FC, or that FC was being blackmailed by Mongolian pirates.

And if you pointed out Mongolia is landlocked and thus pirate-free, he'd sputter something about how HF was still a scam even though they were granted Chapter 11 (a status that is denied to scams and even mismanaged companies) *TWICE*.

Because failing due to unfavorable business conditions makes you a scam if you are HF, but taking the BTC and running doesn't make you a scam if you are AM.   

I'm currently in Cambodia but will be in Thailand on the first of April. Should I start a search and rescue operation? If anyone has any leads I am happy to follow up (seriously).

we did notice together with the breaking news that FC was killed, kidnapped, arrested, and finally resurrected and  fled to bahamas

he claimed hardware been stolen, and the mint has not been paid out to investors. But it has been paid out to someone...

what other proof than investors empty pockets and missing fc you need?

would you be happy with fc signing a msg with his private key? Dude not going to happen, so you can take it as it is or keep going with the delusion that it is something different (what that would be???)

Seems like nobody notice this.

I was out the loop for a while... sad to see friedcat and AM follow the scammers route.

Here's some more differences between AM and Hashfast:

- AM had built a solid reputation over 2+ years of delivering hardware without doing anything remotely untrustworthy (up until this disaster). HF sold a shitload of preorders based on exaggerations, outright lies, and didn't even deliver all their first gen preorders.

- AM has a plausible excuse for their collapse, while HF somehow went bankrupt even though they charged ~50 times their production cost for preorders.

- There is no proof AM acted in bad faith. Right before FC and the farm went missing they gave compensation for delays and full refunds/replacements to those with faulty Prismas. HF on the other hand massively raised employee wages while heading towards bankruptcy, greatly exaggerating shipment dates, lied about btc refunds/compensation, etc.


I'm not making excuses or saying it's definitely not a scam (like you do with HF), I'm just looking for evidence/proof either way.

Please do post this overwhelming evidence you claim to have.

What do you want, a signed confession (with a shoe and banana on top)?

Funny how you insisted HF was a scam despite having no proof, but make excuses for AM despite overwhelming evidence.

Don't worry, I won't let you forget that inconsistency.  

Good question.  Here are some differences between the HashFast the unsuccessful business, and AM the scam:

1) HF operated in a transparent manner.  We knew the investors' and executives' identities and backgrounds since the beginning.  AM guys hid behind silly fake names like 'FriedCat' and 'BitFountain.'

2) HF operated in the heavily (over)regulated California business climate, and never had any criminal charges brought against it.  OTOH, AM existed in the shadowy world of unregulated BTC securities, in the wild-west environment of China's 'mixed capitalism.'

3) HF's chip did exactly what it it was supposed to.  AM's chips kept failing to meet spec.

4) HF told us when and why they suffered delays.  AM was/is nearly completely opaque.

5) HF went to bankruptcy court, in the normal manner for unsuccessful businesses.  AM is on the run from the law and its customers/investors/wives.

6) HF Batch One customers eventually got their ASICs, or refunds.  AMHASH customers are holding empty bags, with no recourse via normal legal means.

7) When everything went wrong, HF execs stayed around and went to court while the process ran its course.  AM's CEO is hiding on a beach in Thailand or something.

Now that AM turns out to be the real scam it's time to start treating its supporters like they treated HashFast's.  So they squeal like dying pigs.

Squeal piggies, squeal!  

Do you have any proof he stole the hardware and mining revenue?

FC has been offline for almost two months now. When someone scams, they almost always will never allow you to hear from them again.

Instead of giving himself a raise prior to the company failing, he simply stole the mining equipment and mining revenue of AMHASH. It is as simple as that

So what is different with Hashfast? All HF customers were scammed, none of them ever received what they paid for. Their money is gone, too. In both cases, all the developed "superior"  technology will go to waste, perhaps to be sold off pennies to the dollar. Perhaps some vulture lawyers will benefit.


I know what the difference is though, you were on the HF payroll and actively participated in the HF scam. You benefited from it and now you spend your time taunting ex-HF customers  and others in similar situations without adding any value to solving problems.

ICEBREAKER, you are a sad excuse for a human being.

We still have no hard proof that this was a scam, but I'm willing to admit it as soon as we get some. (for example if FC gave himself and other employees a massive raise while their company was heading towards bankruptcy, I'd admit they were scammers)

To me this looks like a failed business due to FC's lack of business skills. AM's chip was solid, they just fucked up everything else. (PR, sales, resource allocation, etc)

Fortunately I took whiff of the unprofessionalism around half a year ago and dumped all my shares when they refused to publish a financial report. At that point it was a gamble I wasn't willing to take. I didn't expect the company to go under, but I didn't see them making a huge comeback either.

So jimmothy, how's that "achievement" working out for you now?


You were scammed by AM. Your money is gone.

Did you enjoy being in the denial stage with regards to AM for the last year?

Cloudmining companies would have to cough all the investment, pay ongoing costs and not get a dime until the completion of the contract. No one would do that.

Maybe you could do something with smart contracts, that pay out  automatically in function of difficulty, btc price and some agreed upon fee structure, but its hard for me to see how you can avoid having ~2x the money at stake in escrow some place or in the blockchain. After all, theoretically the contract could become worthless, so the seller must have a guarantee (your money in escrow) and the contract could pay out many times the purchase price over time, so the buyer would need a non trivial fraction of that in escrow as guarantee as well.

I've been looking over my BTC bookmark list where I had a list of notables to watch for investment and info purposes.  All the people on my list incl. friedcat, ukyo, kslaughter, bitsyncom, graet etc have all ended up being less than upstanding citizens.  It is really a shame.  

As a learning experience it has been valuable, and hopefully it provides an incentive for future projects to implement blockchain based investor protection mechanisms.  

I just had an idea for cloud mining schemes - would there be a way of making the fee to the hashing provider dependent on the completion of an agreed term with a multi sig transaction?  eg I buy 1BTC's worth of agreed hash rate, which the mining pool pays out to the multisig address, then at the end of the term I get the mining output sent to me and the hash provider gets their fee?    If the hashing stops halfway through I get my fee refunded plus the mining output.  That's also a way of betting on the network speed via the return of investment for the hash provider as I would hope to get more than my fee back.  There may also need to be some kind of oracle involved in confirming the hash rate was as high as promised.   I'm not sure if something like this has already been done before?

EDIT: Have moved discussion about this idea to a new topic: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=998021.new#new