ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It - page 592.

ThickAsThieves

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Quote from: webbrowser on November 19, 2013, 07:51:29 PM

Quote from: AMuppInTime on November 19, 2013, 04:20:12 PM

Furthermore, it is interesting that TAT himself has not replied to any of my comments. Could it be that as a board member he IS INDEED privy of future happenings and trading with insider informations?
Of course his denying it is not plausible because all the other board members KNOW what else is available out there.

How is TAT connected to Havelock? Other than having a few of his assets listed there?

TATI's only connections to Havelock are in relation to our listings there.

webbrowser

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Quote from: AMuppInTime on November 19, 2013, 04:20:12 PM

Furthermore, it is interesting that TAT himself has not replied to any of my comments. Could it be that as a board member he IS INDEED privy of future happenings and trading with insider informations?
Of course his denying it is not plausible because all the other board members KNOW what else is available out there.

How is TAT connected to Havelock? Other than having a few of his assets listed there?

aahzmundus

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Quote from: Kouye on November 19, 2013, 07:22:08 PM

Quote from: aahzmundus on November 19, 2013, 07:17:41 PM

Anyone who thought mining was a guaranteed gold mine did not read the 100,000 posts to the contrary everywhere. Ask about mining on reddit or any other social media and the first post is usually don't do it. If anyone purchased a miner from friedcat, or anyone else, and was not aware it may not make ROI they had some massive blinders on.

You have to factor in the global benefit of bitcoin getting stronger through the mining effort.
ROI might be a tad more complex than what you think it is.

Good point, I mine for the reasons you mention. I may "lose" money, but in keeping the network secure and having something physical to show people I talk to about bitcoin, I probably have made far more then I "lost".

Kouye

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Cuddling, censored, unicorn-shaped troll.

Quote from: aahzmundus on November 19, 2013, 07:17:41 PM

Anyone who thought mining was a guaranteed gold mine did not read the 100,000 posts to the contrary everywhere. Ask about mining on reddit or any other social media and the first post is usually don't do it. If anyone purchased a miner from friedcat, or anyone else, and was not aware it may not make ROI they had some massive blinders on.

You have to factor in the global benefit of bitcoin getting stronger through the mining effort.
ROI might be a tad more complex than what ~~you~~ people think it is.

EDIT : edited my answer which could appear as a direct aggression and was not meant to be so Wink

stripykitteh

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Products like the Cube are priced to the hobbyist/home miner market. The miners don't necessarily expect to make a big profit from it, they have it because it is cool.

Order your Cube, get it in 4 working days, start mining. Simple. No weeks or months of wondering if your hardware is going to turn up. I think friedcat understands market segmentation very well.

aahzmundus

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Anyone who thought mining was a guaranteed gold mine did not read the 100,000 posts to the contrary everywhere. Ask about mining on reddit or any other social media and the first post is usually don't do it. If anyone purchased a miner from friedcat, or anyone else, and was not aware it may not make ROI they had some massive blinders on.

binaryFate

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Still wild and free

Quote from: twbt on November 19, 2013, 05:47:02 PM

Quote from: SebastianJu on November 19, 2013, 05:36:11 PM

In fact most miners that friedcat sold will not make ROI. So we got more btc for the miner than we would have gotten self mining for months.

That's not a good future business modell.

Selling (in BTC) a mining hardware for more than it can mine (in BTC), is just the right thing to do. It's not a business model, it's plain logic, now and in 10 years whatever is the mining landscape at that time.
I, too, was sceptical about selling too much. It's just a psychological thing (we first get in this investment for "mining"...), but any rational analysis shows that selling can be even better. This analysis is very simple: you sell for more than you can mine, it's a profit, period! I'm puzzled we still discuss this.

silverfuture

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It's only a bad business model if the products don't sell out again and again. The market has spoken.

jimmothy

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Quote from: twbt on November 19, 2013, 05:47:02 PM

Quote from: SebastianJu on November 19, 2013, 05:36:11 PM

In fact most miners that friedcat sold will not make ROI. So we got more btc for the miner than we would have gotten self mining for months.

That's not a good future business modell.

IMO it is a great business model. Sell old tech hardware to fuel development of next gen.

twbt

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Quote from: SebastianJu on November 19, 2013, 05:36:11 PM

In fact most miners that friedcat sold will not make ROI. So we got more btc for the miner than we would have gotten self mining for months.

That's not a good future business modell.

SebastianJu

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Quote from: twbt on November 19, 2013, 05:28:00 PM

Quote from: SebastianJu on November 19, 2013, 05:16:30 PM

Quote from: data on November 19, 2013, 05:03:56 AM

A common and recurring theme in this thread are two things:

Friedcat has not lived up to his promise of keeping 10% of the network
ASICMINER is ripping of their customers, because the hardware will most likely not get a positive ROI

Shareholders already wonder how friedcat could create the cubes and still make a profit. And still you criticize him for buyers that sell more than they should? Dont you realize that its a market with offer and demand? If friedcat isnt selling it then others will sell it. So how can you await from a business that they throw away their margin? If you get your car sold for 150% of its worth you will sell it for that price. Otherwise i want to see you negotiating with the buyer that it wouldnt be fair and that he should pay only 100% instead. For sure you would do this right?

It's all about mining, SebastianJu. - I don't trust this modell since fm shares prize gone below 2 btc.

You mean friedcat should only mine themself? In fact most miners that friedcat sold will not make ROI. So we got more btc for the miner than we would have gotten self mining for months. On top we got all the btc in one moment instead months.
Selling hardware is very important and was always a big part of the divs. I was sceptic before too but its a simple decision.

twbt

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Quote from: SebastianJu on November 19, 2013, 05:16:30 PM

Quote from: data on November 19, 2013, 05:03:56 AM

A common and recurring theme in this thread are two things:

Friedcat has not lived up to his promise of keeping 10% of the network
ASICMINER is ripping of their customers, because the hardware will most likely not get a positive ROI

Shareholders already wonder how friedcat could create the cubes and still make a profit. And still you criticize him for buyers that sell more than they should? Dont you realize that its a market with offer and demand? If friedcat isnt selling it then others will sell it. So how can you await from a business that they throw away their margin? If you get your car sold for 150% of its worth you will sell it for that price. Otherwise i want to see you negotiating with the buyer that it wouldnt be fair and that he should pay only 100% instead. For sure you would do this right?

It's all about mining, SebastianJu. - I don't trust this modell since fm shares prize gone below 2 btc.

SebastianJu

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Quote from: data on November 19, 2013, 05:03:56 AM

A common and recurring theme in this thread are two things:

Friedcat has not lived up to his promise of keeping 10% of the network
ASICMINER is ripping of their customers, because the hardware will most likely not get a positive ROI

Shareholders already wonder how friedcat could create the cubes and still make a profit. And still you criticize him for buyers that sell more than they should? Dont you realize that its a market with offer and demand? If friedcat isnt selling it then others will sell it. So how can you await from a business that they throw away their margin? If you get your car sold for 150% of its worth you will sell it for that price. Otherwise i want to see you negotiating with the buyer that it wouldnt be fair and that he should pay only 100% instead. For sure you would do this right?

freedomno1

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Learning the troll avoidance button :)

That reminds me its been a while since we have done a Shareholder FAQ
We should pile up some questions to send to Friedcat

bitcoin.newsfeed

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Just wait, TAT will eventually respond to you, since he is also co-founder of NEOBEE and now is Senate Banking Subcommittee hearing on virtual currencies LIVE right now on C-SPAN3, maybe hes watching.

My question on TAT is, if the board had some meetings in last 6weeks and why aren't they sharing some info from board meetings with other shareholders?

"1. The board has committed to meeting even more often than we have been, and intentionally gleaning whatever info can be shared from each meeting, and posting it to public."

AMuppInTime

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Quote from: data on November 19, 2013, 04:04:07 PM

I think you're the troll, what with the low post count and posting in the wrong thread (and posting about changing Bitcoins to cash... Which would have many replies of course). I think you just might be another HL fake account to try to divert the attention away from any negative comment regarding HL. [what with the other guy trying to get clarifications on how to get *drumroll* clarification on HL share workings.]

Furthermore, it is interesting that TAT himself has not replied to any of my comments. Could it be that as a board member he IS INDEED privy of future happenings and trading with insider informations?
Of course his denying it is not plausible because all the other board members KNOW what else is available out there.

nousfeed

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What do people think is going to happen tomorrow, dividends higher or lower, good or bad news from FC?

freedomno1

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Learning the troll avoidance button :)

Quote from: data on November 19, 2013, 04:04:07 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: data on November 19, 2013, 01:02:00 PM

Where can I convert a few hundred bitcoins for cash right now without taking too much of a hit? And how do I store that securely?

I hope this isn't a rhetorical question, because it's not that hard to find out. As for the second question, this is doubly naive.

I am talking about cash. Maybe you live in bitcoinland where everybody is freely willing to trade, but around here, there is one single offer on the markets I know. And storing cash securely... There is a reason people still have money at banks.So unless you meant "cash" to be some virtual fiat currency obtainable through the many exchanges, you are either ignorant or just plain wrong and a troll.

It's called Armory and Cold Storage

Or buying Direct shares then trust is just friedcat

Edit in the rhetorical question was a bit weird
You convert cash at an exchange then put it in the bank or load a debit card if you use cavirtex

Bitcoin doesn't need a bank to be stored securely just good management and their is no real bank for bitcoins so that point is moot
Its a digital currency

data

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: data on November 19, 2013, 01:02:00 PM

Where can I convert a few hundred bitcoins for cash right now without taking too much of a hit? And how do I store that securely?

I hope this isn't a rhetorical question, because it's not that hard to find out. As for the second question, this is doubly naive.

I am talking about cash. Maybe you live in bitcoinland where everybody is freely willing to trade, but around here, there is one single offer on the markets I know. And storing cash securely... There is a reason people still have money at banks.So unless you meant "cash" to be some virtual fiat currency obtainable through the many exchanges, you are either ignorant or just plain wrong and a troll.

freedomno1

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Learning the troll avoidance button :)

Quote from: AMuppInTime on November 19, 2013, 03:47:47 PM

Quote from: aahzmundus on November 19, 2013, 03:20:49 PM

I figure(...) this is in my opinion a cash grab

I totally believe it is: they got acquired nov 1st, TAT sits on AM board and knows advance details on the "public trading platform" friedcat said he was working on (and is likely about to release)...
Additionally I suspect the price has been artificially pushed down, if you want to buy shares you can see you make the price jump drastically.

*Edit* TLDR: Havelock is privy of insider info and is trying to squeeze money before they become useless.

Well Dividends incoming Havelock is making an IPO and the price has been beast so bit complex

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