Topic: ASICMINER for dummies? - page 5. (Read 13788 times)

That's a good question.  It works like this:

I hold (but do not own) ~5800 shares of ASICMINER with Friedcat.  All of these shares trade on the exchange.  When Friedcat issues divs, my wallet gets divs for all 5800 shares.

On the exchange, I hold (and own) ~350 shares of ASICMINER-PT.  Other people hold the rest.  When I pay divs that have come in from Friedcat, they are distributed to everyone's btct.co accounts based on how many ASICMINER-PT shares they have.

And the important part: Every ASICMINER-PT share is backed by exactly one ASICMINER share.  So the number available on the market is exactly the number I am holding directly with Friedcat.

Hope that helps!

Thanks mate, it does clarify a lot. I'll ask one more question though. Sorry for my confusion over saying you're a majority share holder, it ties in with this question though.

If I purchase a passthrough share, who's share am I actually purchasing? (or essentially, which "real" share is the dividend coming from?)

One one hand I thought it would be purchasing from burnside - he is running the exchange, and I imagined he couldn't "sell" anything he doesn't have the authority to "own", hence I figured he had a large portion and we were essentially trading out of his pool. This would mean on btct.co we're dividing up the 350 shares burnside owns personally? If 50 share owners converted to "real" shares does this mean the pool is ever shrinking and we would only now be dividing up 300 shares?

On the other hand a few advantages mentioned was being traded in large volumes easily, so it makes me think it can't be this pool of burnsides shares. Hence how does an exchange have the authority to trade in them, and how do they receive the divided to pass through? Does the exchange have it own separate pool of shares? Again how is the pool 'replenished' from conversions if the public (exchange included here?) can't buy shares from ASICMINER?

Again, sorry for the basic questions. I'm sure it's a similar set up in most share markets but I've never really been exposed much to it and I'm really interested in how it's working.

Thanks

No problem, I can help clarify.

First I am not majority shareholder by a long shot.  I think I had 100 shares out of 400,000 total or something.  I hold more now, ~350 I think.

I started the passthru because people were trading in the forum threads, which meant:
  - having to use escrow for the trades
  - trading is slow  (typically takes friedcat 2-3 days to process a trade)
  - trades were very risky  (can you trust the other guy?  can you trust the escrow guy?)
  - it was hard to value a trade

With the passthru, you get safe easy trades, lots of volume if you need to buy or sell quickly, and potentially some extra dividends if Friedcat gives the passthru a sample mining rig.  (since the passthru in theory is over 5,000 shares and thus has board membership.)

There is currently no downside.  The passthru is currently zero-fee.  I'm not making anything directly from running the passthru.  (disclosure, I am making some by trading my personal shares)  There's not much reason to withdraw, and lots of reasons to stay.

Hope that helps make sense of things.

Cheers.

Liquidity. Off exchange shares are difficult to buy and sell.


I ran APY numbers on ASICMiner yesterday. I believe I came up with 38%ish based on the current ask on btct.co at that moment. Their last couple dividends have been lower than normal because they've been re-investing.

Sorry for being a share's newbie.

From my understanding.

Friedcat is the actual owner / creator of ASICMINER.

Burnside bought up a heap of ASICMINER shares in the beginning, making him a majority share owner?

He is now offering these shares on btct.co as pass through. My newbiness comes in knowing what pass through essentially means.

From my understanding:
- You get the same dividends as you would being an actual share holder, it's just passed through Burnside who takes a small cut.
- You're allowed to convert the PT share into a 'real' share whenever you like.

In that case, why would anyone ever hold a PT? Why wouldn't you ever just buy and instantly convert? What is the value burnside is adding*?

Also, is there anyway you can calculate in advance what the returns / dividends would be? What percentage of the profits are paid in dividends? I'm trying to figure out where I could get information from to calculate my projected ROI, timeframes, etc.

 
* I'm definitively not implying burnside isn't doing anything valuable, in any way is ripping people off or anything silly like that, I'm simply saying I don't understand enough about it currently and I'm trying to learn.

What do you guys think the dividend will be when the new ASIC machines are hooked up and after BFL starts shipping?

I object to my thread being  called dummy! ;-)

- yes you get dividends. Your shares  are effectively held in trust.
- paid to your btct acct.
- email/pm the owner of the pt and friedcat
       

Since this is the dummy thread, I post a couple of questions regarding btct.co:
- If I buy PTs there, do I get dividends? Or are dividens only for real shares?
- How will dividends get transferred to me? Will they be sent to my btct.co account and I can then withdraw?
- How can I convert PTs?

Brilliant. Thanx Rody! I have registered on btct and I am SO going to go this route.

Generally you can buy PT shares and then transfer them.  Some PTs charge for this, others don't.  The details should be in the information (prospectus?  ) associated with the PT on the exchange.

Is there a way to get direct shares other than waiting for an auction on forum?

Dividend day is Wednesday.  If you're a direct holder you get two transactions - one with one satoshi per share held, and another with the dividend.

If you are holding via a passthrough, it depends on the PT.

As for how long they are paid for - if you mean what I think you mean, the answer is "as long as ASICMINER continues to make profits".  Which hopefully is a very, very long time.

Im confused as to when these divedens are payed and how long are they payed for?

Fees are waived for now.  Waiting to see what ASICMINER decides to do for an exchange.

Even if it goes long-term, the fee for https://btct.co/security/ASICMINER-PT is 1% at 5,000 shares, and 0.5% at 10,000 shares.  So with about 4k more shares, you'd get 99.5% of your divs.    Definitely worth it I think if you think you'll ever need liquidity.  (Eg, something happens in your life and you need to dump 'em quick.)

Cheers.

I believe both pass throughs have waved their fees. At least for the time being.

For my money, if you want to buy and hold either buy from a PT and convert (PTs only pass through 95% dividends) or buy on the auction forum.  If you intend to trade them, stick to a PT.

Correct. Though sometimes there are private auctions on the forums. I recommend using the PTs as the liquidity is much higher.

So if I understand correctly you cant buy directly from them? You must buy with bitcoin on btct.co?

Thanks everyone.

If you buy PT shares on btct.co, they can be exchanged to real shares at any time without any minimum limits.