Ask Amazon for Bitcoin Payments - page 3.

boumalo

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Quote from: leex1528 on July 22, 2014, 10:58:25 AM

I think if Amazon gets enough fuss, (People keep saying I am buying at Overstock.com until you accept Bitcoin) they will have to cave.

It would take a lot of people to make this happen but every little message to them will help in the long run.

Yes once Bitcoin has enough people using it, businesses will start allowing Bitcoin payments

herogold

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bump

TippingPoint

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Emailed them that I now use Overstock (because of Bitcoin), but would like to also use Amazon.

leex1528

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I think if Amazon gets enough fuss, (People keep saying I am buying at Overstock.com until you accept Bitcoin) they will have to cave.

It would take a lot of people to make this happen but every little message to them will help in the long run.

InwardContour

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Quote from: scarsbergholden on July 19, 2014, 06:26:41 PM

Quote from: techman on July 19, 2014, 06:12:15 PM

What is the latest situation for Amazon?

Unless I missed something, nothing but boilerplate responses. I have to think that Amazon is simply too big to risk holding BTC (can't pay suppliers and vendors in it), and Bitpay can't do that kind of volume!

Bitcoin is still too small to be considered by Amazon but things may change next year,
more and more companies are adopting it and Amazon will follow sooner or later.

DannyElfman

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Quote from: ebliever on July 19, 2014, 05:43:01 PM

Quote from: hollowframe on July 17, 2014, 07:07:28 PM

Quote from: ebliever on July 17, 2014, 06:19:22 AM

Quote from: DannyElfman on July 17, 2014, 12:06:25 AM

Quote from: ebliever on July 15, 2014, 12:01:26 PM

Quote from: hollowframe on July 14, 2014, 11:05:45 PM

Judges and juries are the only ones who have the authority to make legal conclusions. If the jury thinks that the facts show that the buyer knew the items were purchased with stolen credit cards then it would find him guilty.

Before it gets to that point a prosecutor has to judge whether it is even worth the bother, and I wouldn't think it would progress past that point. Unless you think everyone who gets a good deal selling something on Ebay should be taken to court just in case of wrongdoing, for example.

I make a wishlist on Amazon. I share it on Purse, with a discount I'm seeking from people who want to buy BTC with a credit card. An anonymous bidder accepts my offer. When the item(s) arrive I Confirm Delivery on Purse and the BTC transfers. How could a judge or jury or prosecutor think from that sequence of events that the BTC holder "knowingly" was a party to criminal activity? Might as well just arrest anyone with cash in their pockets, all bankers, etc., because their cash might once have been involved in a crime.

As I already stated, I will do my best to report any confession of illegal activity by a bidder for BTC (unlikely as that may be). I've also brought up this whole issue with Purse (including a link to this thread); I'll share what response I get if any.

What if the prosecutor were to think that you were the anonymous bidder who is simply trying to hide your tracks by used purse to use a stolen credit card?

Good question... I assume they'd be looking for some kind of evidence to back that up. They'd have to have _something_ beyond a mere suspicion to make it worthy of going to trial. And in my case there'd simply be nothing. No evidence in computer records (on my own or the ISP, etc.) nothing in my personal life, real life contacts/associates, relation to any credit card fraud victims, I'd almost certainly have alibis for the time/place of any crimes, etc. And I'd be fully cooperative since I'd have nothing to hide. So again, I couldn't see this going anywhere near a trial.

I think you would still be guilty of receiving stolen property if you bought goods with bitcoin for a discount when the goods were purchased with a stolen credit card. It would be kind of like you buying a stolen TV out of some guy's truck, brand new for 50% off what it would cost you in a store. The semantics are different but the same principles would apply.

Yeah, in a case like that where it could be documented that the funds used in the fiat purchase were stolen I'd be agreeable to making things right and returning/refunding the proceeds/items. I suspect if someone wanted to fight it, the novelty and complexity of the case would bog it down and they'd probably win on some technicality or other.

I am pretty sure that as long as it can be documented that the goods were stolen then, even if you buy them legitimately, they are still considered stolen and must be returned to the rightful owner. Generally there must be some kind of serial number or tracking number to document the fact that they were stolen.

Harley997

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Quote from: ebliever on July 19, 2014, 05:43:01 PM

Quote from: hollowframe on July 17, 2014, 07:07:28 PM

Quote from: ebliever on July 17, 2014, 06:19:22 AM

Quote from: DannyElfman on July 17, 2014, 12:06:25 AM

Quote from: ebliever on July 15, 2014, 12:01:26 PM

Quote from: hollowframe on July 14, 2014, 11:05:45 PM

Judges and juries are the only ones who have the authority to make legal conclusions. If the jury thinks that the facts show that the buyer knew the items were purchased with stolen credit cards then it would find him guilty.

Before it gets to that point a prosecutor has to judge whether it is even worth the bother, and I wouldn't think it would progress past that point. Unless you think everyone who gets a good deal selling something on Ebay should be taken to court just in case of wrongdoing, for example.

I make a wishlist on Amazon. I share it on Purse, with a discount I'm seeking from people who want to buy BTC with a credit card. An anonymous bidder accepts my offer. When the item(s) arrive I Confirm Delivery on Purse and the BTC transfers. How could a judge or jury or prosecutor think from that sequence of events that the BTC holder "knowingly" was a party to criminal activity? Might as well just arrest anyone with cash in their pockets, all bankers, etc., because their cash might once have been involved in a crime.

As I already stated, I will do my best to report any confession of illegal activity by a bidder for BTC (unlikely as that may be). I've also brought up this whole issue with Purse (including a link to this thread); I'll share what response I get if any.

What if the prosecutor were to think that you were the anonymous bidder who is simply trying to hide your tracks by used purse to use a stolen credit card?

Good question... I assume they'd be looking for some kind of evidence to back that up. They'd have to have _something_ beyond a mere suspicion to make it worthy of going to trial. And in my case there'd simply be nothing. No evidence in computer records (on my own or the ISP, etc.) nothing in my personal life, real life contacts/associates, relation to any credit card fraud victims, I'd almost certainly have alibis for the time/place of any crimes, etc. And I'd be fully cooperative since I'd have nothing to hide. So again, I couldn't see this going anywhere near a trial.

I think you would still be guilty of receiving stolen property if you bought goods with bitcoin for a discount when the goods were purchased with a stolen credit card. It would be kind of like you buying a stolen TV out of some guy's truck, brand new for 50% off what it would cost you in a store. The semantics are different but the same principles would apply.

Yeah, in a case like that where it could be documented that the funds used in the fiat purchase were stolen I'd be agreeable to making things right and returning/refunding the proceeds/items. I suspect if someone wanted to fight it, the novelty and complexity of the case would bog it down and they'd probably win on some technicality or other.

If this were the case then you would essentially be scammed out of your bitcoin and would, at the vest least have a scary encounter with the police/law enforcement.

scarsbergholden

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Quote from: techman on July 19, 2014, 06:12:15 PM

What is the latest situation for Amazon?

Unless I missed something, nothing but boilerplate responses. I have to think that Amazon is simply too big to risk holding BTC (can't pay suppliers and vendors in it), and Bitpay can't do that kind of volume!

techman

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What is the latest situation for Amazon?

ebliever

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Quote from: hollowframe on July 17, 2014, 07:07:28 PM

Quote from: ebliever on July 17, 2014, 06:19:22 AM

Quote from: DannyElfman on July 17, 2014, 12:06:25 AM

Quote from: ebliever on July 15, 2014, 12:01:26 PM

Quote from: hollowframe on July 14, 2014, 11:05:45 PM

Judges and juries are the only ones who have the authority to make legal conclusions. If the jury thinks that the facts show that the buyer knew the items were purchased with stolen credit cards then it would find him guilty.

Before it gets to that point a prosecutor has to judge whether it is even worth the bother, and I wouldn't think it would progress past that point. Unless you think everyone who gets a good deal selling something on Ebay should be taken to court just in case of wrongdoing, for example.

I make a wishlist on Amazon. I share it on Purse, with a discount I'm seeking from people who want to buy BTC with a credit card. An anonymous bidder accepts my offer. When the item(s) arrive I Confirm Delivery on Purse and the BTC transfers. How could a judge or jury or prosecutor think from that sequence of events that the BTC holder "knowingly" was a party to criminal activity? Might as well just arrest anyone with cash in their pockets, all bankers, etc., because their cash might once have been involved in a crime.

As I already stated, I will do my best to report any confession of illegal activity by a bidder for BTC (unlikely as that may be). I've also brought up this whole issue with Purse (including a link to this thread); I'll share what response I get if any.

What if the prosecutor were to think that you were the anonymous bidder who is simply trying to hide your tracks by used purse to use a stolen credit card?

Good question... I assume they'd be looking for some kind of evidence to back that up. They'd have to have _something_ beyond a mere suspicion to make it worthy of going to trial. And in my case there'd simply be nothing. No evidence in computer records (on my own or the ISP, etc.) nothing in my personal life, real life contacts/associates, relation to any credit card fraud victims, I'd almost certainly have alibis for the time/place of any crimes, etc. And I'd be fully cooperative since I'd have nothing to hide. So again, I couldn't see this going anywhere near a trial.

I think you would still be guilty of receiving stolen property if you bought goods with bitcoin for a discount when the goods were purchased with a stolen credit card. It would be kind of like you buying a stolen TV out of some guy's truck, brand new for 50% off what it would cost you in a store. The semantics are different but the same principles would apply.

Yeah, in a case like that where it could be documented that the funds used in the fiat purchase were stolen I'd be agreeable to making things right and returning/refunding the proceeds/items. I suspect if someone wanted to fight it, the novelty and complexity of the case would bog it down and they'd probably win on some technicality or other.

HarHarHar9965

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I've asked before. I've only gotten a boilerplate response. I think Amazon is way too big to touch bitcoin for now. Not until there is a much bigger market cap and market liquidity against USD.

CrackedLogic

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On a completely different note^

What's the status on amazon accepting bitcoin?

hollowframe

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Quote from: ebliever on July 17, 2014, 06:19:22 AM

Quote from: DannyElfman on July 17, 2014, 12:06:25 AM

Quote from: ebliever on July 15, 2014, 12:01:26 PM

Quote from: hollowframe on July 14, 2014, 11:05:45 PM

Judges and juries are the only ones who have the authority to make legal conclusions. If the jury thinks that the facts show that the buyer knew the items were purchased with stolen credit cards then it would find him guilty.

Before it gets to that point a prosecutor has to judge whether it is even worth the bother, and I wouldn't think it would progress past that point. Unless you think everyone who gets a good deal selling something on Ebay should be taken to court just in case of wrongdoing, for example.

I make a wishlist on Amazon. I share it on Purse, with a discount I'm seeking from people who want to buy BTC with a credit card. An anonymous bidder accepts my offer. When the item(s) arrive I Confirm Delivery on Purse and the BTC transfers. How could a judge or jury or prosecutor think from that sequence of events that the BTC holder "knowingly" was a party to criminal activity? Might as well just arrest anyone with cash in their pockets, all bankers, etc., because their cash might once have been involved in a crime.

As I already stated, I will do my best to report any confession of illegal activity by a bidder for BTC (unlikely as that may be). I've also brought up this whole issue with Purse (including a link to this thread); I'll share what response I get if any.

What if the prosecutor were to think that you were the anonymous bidder who is simply trying to hide your tracks by used purse to use a stolen credit card?

Good question... I assume they'd be looking for some kind of evidence to back that up. They'd have to have _something_ beyond a mere suspicion to make it worthy of going to trial. And in my case there'd simply be nothing. No evidence in computer records (on my own or the ISP, etc.) nothing in my personal life, real life contacts/associates, relation to any credit card fraud victims, I'd almost certainly have alibis for the time/place of any crimes, etc. And I'd be fully cooperative since I'd have nothing to hide. So again, I couldn't see this going anywhere near a trial.

I think you would still be guilty of receiving stolen property if you bought goods with bitcoin for a discount when the goods were purchased with a stolen credit card. It would be kind of like you buying a stolen TV out of some guy's truck, brand new for 50% off what it would cost you in a store. The semantics are different but the same principles would apply.

ebliever

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Activity: 1708

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Quote from: DannyElfman on July 17, 2014, 12:06:25 AM

Quote from: ebliever on July 15, 2014, 12:01:26 PM

Quote from: hollowframe on July 14, 2014, 11:05:45 PM

Judges and juries are the only ones who have the authority to make legal conclusions. If the jury thinks that the facts show that the buyer knew the items were purchased with stolen credit cards then it would find him guilty.

Before it gets to that point a prosecutor has to judge whether it is even worth the bother, and I wouldn't think it would progress past that point. Unless you think everyone who gets a good deal selling something on Ebay should be taken to court just in case of wrongdoing, for example.

I make a wishlist on Amazon. I share it on Purse, with a discount I'm seeking from people who want to buy BTC with a credit card. An anonymous bidder accepts my offer. When the item(s) arrive I Confirm Delivery on Purse and the BTC transfers. How could a judge or jury or prosecutor think from that sequence of events that the BTC holder "knowingly" was a party to criminal activity? Might as well just arrest anyone with cash in their pockets, all bankers, etc., because their cash might once have been involved in a crime.

As I already stated, I will do my best to report any confession of illegal activity by a bidder for BTC (unlikely as that may be). I've also brought up this whole issue with Purse (including a link to this thread); I'll share what response I get if any.

What if the prosecutor were to think that you were the anonymous bidder who is simply trying to hide your tracks by used purse to use a stolen credit card?

Good question... I assume they'd be looking for some kind of evidence to back that up. They'd have to have _something_ beyond a mere suspicion to make it worthy of going to trial. And in my case there'd simply be nothing. No evidence in computer records (on my own or the ISP, etc.) nothing in my personal life, real life contacts/associates, relation to any credit card fraud victims, I'd almost certainly have alibis for the time/place of any crimes, etc. And I'd be fully cooperative since I'd have nothing to hide. So again, I couldn't see this going anywhere near a trial.

slaveforanunnak1

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The founder of Overstock.com is such a dope dude! He is a total hippy! I love him! I love to hang out with him for a day and just learn! FK amazon!

DannyElfman

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Quote from: ebliever on July 15, 2014, 12:01:26 PM

Quote from: hollowframe on July 14, 2014, 11:05:45 PM

Judges and juries are the only ones who have the authority to make legal conclusions. If the jury thinks that the facts show that the buyer knew the items were purchased with stolen credit cards then it would find him guilty.

Before it gets to that point a prosecutor has to judge whether it is even worth the bother, and I wouldn't think it would progress past that point. Unless you think everyone who gets a good deal selling something on Ebay should be taken to court just in case of wrongdoing, for example.

I make a wishlist on Amazon. I share it on Purse, with a discount I'm seeking from people who want to buy BTC with a credit card. An anonymous bidder accepts my offer. When the item(s) arrive I Confirm Delivery on Purse and the BTC transfers. How could a judge or jury or prosecutor think from that sequence of events that the BTC holder "knowingly" was a party to criminal activity? Might as well just arrest anyone with cash in their pockets, all bankers, etc., because their cash might once have been involved in a crime.

As I already stated, I will do my best to report any confession of illegal activity by a bidder for BTC (unlikely as that may be). I've also brought up this whole issue with Purse (including a link to this thread); I'll share what response I get if any.

What if the prosecutor were to think that you were the anonymous bidder who is simply trying to hide your tracks by used purse to use a stolen credit card?

ebliever

legendary

Activity: 1708

Merit: 1036

I did get a response from Purse, I think from one of the founders actually. It reads (excerpted):

...There are many reasons we chose to integrate with Amazon, and one of them is the fact that they have a state-of-the-art fraud detection system and a strong anti-chargeback process.

Sometimes, Amazon cancels even legitimate orders because it looks suspicious to them (i.e. $1,000 gift card order purchased from Brazil to a Spender in Alabama). People who Buy BTC through our site and try to chargeback Amazon will find their attempts fruitless. Amazon will provide evidence that they shipped and delivered the product and will require a return of the items before they issue a refund to the Buyer. They have great relationships issuing and merchant banks, and they do not outsource payments.

On Purse's side, our system ensures that Spenders aren't exposed to fraud. Spenders' BTC aren't at risk because they have to confirm delivery of the item. We are developing capabilities that detect changes in Amazon orders so that we minimize the wait time for Spenders.

halfawake

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Quote from: ThomasCrowne on July 15, 2014, 01:14:49 PM

Spoke with a representative from Amazon ~1.5 weeks ago about this very thing. She indicated that she herself had received at least half a dozen requests for bitcoin payment options just within the last week. Given enough pressure and requests I suspect Amazon should be completely on board by the middle of next year at the latest. (*taking off tin-foil hat*)

It'll definitely be interesting to see how this plays out. This may also be a case of be careful what you wish for, as this might not be as good as we think for bitcoin, if it comes before the bitcoin infrastructure is ready for it.

ThomasCrowne

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★☆★ 777Coin - The Exciting Bitco

Spoke with a representative from Amazon ~1.5 weeks ago about this very thing. She indicated that she herself had received at least half a dozen requests for bitcoin payment options just within the last week. Given enough pressure and requests I suspect Amazon should be completely on board by the middle of next year at the latest. (*taking off tin-foil hat*)

ebliever

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Quote from: hollowframe on July 14, 2014, 11:05:45 PM

Judges and juries are the only ones who have the authority to make legal conclusions. If the jury thinks that the facts show that the buyer knew the items were purchased with stolen credit cards then it would find him guilty.

Before it gets to that point a prosecutor has to judge whether it is even worth the bother, and I wouldn't think it would progress past that point. Unless you think everyone who gets a good deal selling something on Ebay should be taken to court just in case of wrongdoing, for example.

I make a wishlist on Amazon. I share it on Purse, with a discount I'm seeking from people who want to buy BTC with a credit card. An anonymous bidder accepts my offer. When the item(s) arrive I Confirm Delivery on Purse and the BTC transfers. How could a judge or jury or prosecutor think from that sequence of events that the BTC holder "knowingly" was a party to criminal activity? Might as well just arrest anyone with cash in their pockets, all bankers, etc., because their cash might once have been involved in a crime.

As I already stated, I will do my best to report any confession of illegal activity by a bidder for BTC (unlikely as that may be). I've also brought up this whole issue with Purse (including a link to this thread); I'll share what response I get if any.

Topic: Ask Amazon for Bitcoin Payments - page 3. (Read 11928 times)