'Attack on Bitcoin’ Claims Circulate as Transaction Fees Climb Higher - page 4.

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Quote from: Darker45 on May 13, 2023, 10:47:33 PM

What is a major issue to me is that there is something in Bitcoin that could be taken advantage of by its adversaries to bring it down. And the attack is happening right now at the expense not just of Bitcoin's reputation, its adoption, but more so of the people who have relied on it one way or another.

I can quite agree that this is certainly what they are doing. It might also be the only reason and they do not really care which altcoin we use to replace bitcoin. BSV coin might only be a trick to make everyone assume that someone is scamming us. The real reason might be as straigthforward as they only want us to stop using bitcoin, however, we cannot see this.

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To effectively address the issue of increasing transaction fees in Bitcoin, it is crucial to determine the root cause of the problem and verify if it is a deliberate attack. Given the complexity of the cryptocurrency ecosystem, there could be various factors contributing to the issue, including attempts to disrupt Bitcoin and the broader cryptocurrency ecosystem. Thus, it is essential to conduct a thorough investigation and gather reliable information to determine if there is a coordinated effort to counter Bitcoin. That's my view.

Darker45

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Quote from: bbc.reporter on May 13, 2023, 09:37:37 PM

@Darker45. A malicious intention is when someone spends much funds to spam and cause bitcoin's transaction fees to be high and also cause it to be unusable for much of the users who use it as a medium of exchange. It is very much similar to a denial of service attack.

Then all those who are paying high fees for their garbage inscriptions to get prioritized have malicious intentions. Is that what you are saying?

Quote

If verified true that it is an attack, it is also very important to ask who is paying for this denial of service attack. Is it a competing project like BSV? Is it the government? Is it both of them working together?

To be honest, this is a minor issue to me. If it's the BSV people, that's understandable. They've been attacking Bitcoin and its supporters non-stop for years now. They've been spending money for it. If it's the government, the same thing. Bitcoin is a threat to them.

What is a major issue to me is that there is something in Bitcoin that could be taken advantage of by its adversaries to bring it down. And the attack is happening right now at the expense not just of Bitcoin's reputation, its adoption, but more so of the people who have relied on it one way or another.

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Quote from: Darker45 on May 13, 2023, 08:28:29 PM

But what if this isn't an attack coming from them? What if this is happening naturally? To me, this is a more serious concern. I think it would be such a great waste that a decentralized currency will just do down the drain because some garbage transactions are killing the monetary ones.

And what is a malicious intention for you? Isn't it malicious when you are clogging the network, delaying monetary transactions like remittance, salaries, purchases, and so on for days, discouraging its adoption as a currency, causing a terrible increase in fees with your frog pics?

Many things look different depending on how you look at it. Yes, this is an attack on bitcoin and yes, it happens naturally. Yes, it's a problem, and yes, it's okay. Yes, it's junk on the blockchain and yes, it's stored value. Yes, we would like to avoid a split, and yes, the expectation of a split can be a powerful driver for the price of bitcoin. Yes, we want to keep Satoshi's original vision and yes, we welcome expansion into new areas of adoption. This is the way.

"First they don't notice you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you. And then you win."

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@Darker45. A malicious intention is when someone spends much funds to spam and cause bitcoin's transaction fees to be high and also cause it to be unusable for much of the users who use it as a medium of exchange. It is very much similar to a denial of service attack.

If verified true that it is an attack, it is also very important to ask who is paying for this denial of service attack. Is it a competing project like BSV? Is it the government? Is it both of them working together?

Darker45

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Quote from: bbc.reporter on May 12, 2023, 11:40:55 PM

Quote from: Darker45 on May 11, 2023, 12:29:16 AM

Quote from: bbc.reporter on May 10, 2023, 10:55:26 PM

~snip~

I'm a bit surprised. So if the Bitcoin network has turned into a network for sending poor frog images and worthless jpegs and lewd photos and whatnot but in such a manner that the transactions are natural and not deliberately done to attack Bitcoin, it is perfectly all right?

My point is that it is secondary that what's happening right now may be an attack by the BSV community and developers. There's not even an information which conclusively points at them as the culprit. The primary concern is that the Bitcoin network may end up filled to the brim of transactions that are not monetary in nature but ones which involve mere NFT-like collections.

Would it not concern you that the main philosophy of Bitcoin as a financial technology will be compromised because of these garbage inscriptions? Can you simply brush it off because things happened naturally?

Yes, if everything has happened in a natural and organic way, for me it would be okay.

However, if there were malicious intentions, assuming that the information about the BSV developers and community are verified true, this should not be okay. Will it be okay for you?

It isn't okay for me, of course. But if that is proven, I guess I'd even be somehow relieved, because I know that it won't last. How deep are the pockets of these BSV scumbags that they can sustain such an attack? Not that deep, I guess. If they are, I know they aren't bottomless.

But what if this isn't an attack coming from them? What if this is happening naturally? To me, this is a more serious concern. I think it would be such a great waste that a decentralized currency will just do down the drain because some garbage transactions are killing the monetary ones.

And what is a malicious intention for you? Isn't it malicious when you are clogging the network, delaying monetary transactions like remittance, salaries, purchases, and so on for days, discouraging its adoption as a currency, causing a terrible increase in fees with your frog pics?

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Quote from: bbc.reporter on May 10, 2023, 10:55:26 PM

However, if the speculation that the BSV community and their developers are responsible for spamming bitcoin to make the fees very high are verified true, I reckon this can be considered an attack.

Exactly, what else you will expect to the BSV community after believing that its the real Bitcoin when in fact it is just a fork from a fork of Bitcoin.

panganib999

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So it was Ordinals all along. Jesus christ.

Too late though. Pretty much over 300k transactions remaining on mempool waiting to be resolved, and it shows considering fees aren’t as jigh as it was before. Ultimately still going to be a recurring problem however which could only result to either Ordinals getting exiled out of the bitcoin network for inadverrently causing these clogs, or Ordinals coming up with a solution to this problem. Bitcoin could only take so much and it’s not the best when it comes to facilitating transactions (let’s face it) so it needs all the help it can get to stay afloat. This “attack” further solidifies that fact and is nothing but a big massive slap to the face of bitcoin visionaries who seem to not see any flaw with bitcoin.

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Quote from: Z390 on May 11, 2023, 02:23:15 AM

It's not a free attack Cheesy

and that's satisfying, since someone is paying for this I hope they can keep up as time goes on, there is always a end to everything and Ordinals will one day become a past story, let them keep attacking Bitcoin, as the only way they can keep attacking Bitcoin is spending a lots of money, the true winner is still Bitcoin.
Keep draining down their pocket Bitcoin, if you are going to go down at least there will be a larger consequences on the attackers side ..
Lol 😆. So satisfying.

I have known this since the story of ordinals came up and i had known they were up to something which i could not really decipher what their plans were. I had known that things were not well. Well, my own happiness is that the ordinals attack is gradually fading away and that those bankrolling them would soon see it that they wasted their funds and succeeded making miners richer than they could expect so soonest. They never had the thought of the previous attack on bitcoin which did not see the light of the day years back before they came up with another scheme which they could not succeed.

Bitcoin is an entity that has stood the test of time on its own now and i believe no matter what and how the pressure and propaganda is schemed, it can not in anyway surpass bitcoin existence in nature.

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Quote from: Z-tight on May 13, 2023, 10:14:11 AM

Quote from: benalexis12 on May 13, 2023, 09:09:07 AM

Regardless of what those ordinals caused, the effect on Bitcoin holders was not a good one that the majority saw. And what's worse is all the merchants who accept bitcoin payment in their businesses which in my observation have definitely stopped because of the effect of the high fees. And because of these high fees, we can also clearly see that the ones who have benefited the most from this are really Bitcoin miners and not Bitcoin holders in truth and real talk.

BTC holders do not lose anything, to be affected by TX fees you have to make a transaction; the spenders are the ones that have probably been affected. As for people who accept BTC payment in their business, surely they still do because they have nothing to lose, if there are customers that want to pay through the high TX fees, then let them do, if there are none, you receive payments through other options, so why should they remove the BTC option when they have nothing to lose.

Have you not thought that most merchants are actually not holding Bitcoin? Most of them are converting Bitcoin in real time the moment the customer paid in Bitcoin with the third party processor. With this merchants are also forced to pay the transaction when they convert the BTC payment to fiat. Although someone can argue that it is already paid by the customer

Quote from: Z-tight on May 13, 2023, 10:14:11 AM

The mempool is also cooling off, there were over 400k unconfirmed transactions some days ago, but now it is below 300k and the fee rate for transactions is also coming down, soon the people who are using this situation to spread fud about BTC will have nothing more to say.

Also, the transaction fee is going back to normal. No those FUD spreaders have lots to say, they can even use your way of eating to FUD the market Grin

. They have lots of ways to attack the sentiment of the market since I believe these people have a grasp of trading psychology.

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Quote from: Z-tight on May 13, 2023, 10:14:11 AM

The mempool is also cooling off, there were over 400k unconfirmed transactions some days ago, but now it is below 300k and the fee rate for transactions is also coming down, soon the people who are using this situation to spread fud about BTC will have nothing more to say.

The best strategy is really not just stressing over it too much, but just wait for the whole situation to settle, place any transaction you want to do currently on a must-do basis. Any transaction not important can wait till later after things get normal or you do your transaction in the traditional way with fiat. To serious HODLers, the whole situation of high transaction fees is just another news because they barely use their bitcoins for any form of transaction.

Z-tight

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Quote from: benalexis12 on May 13, 2023, 09:09:07 AM

Regardless of what those ordinals caused, the effect on Bitcoin holders was not a good one that the majority saw. And what's worse is all the merchants who accept bitcoin payment in their businesses which in my observation have definitely stopped because of the effect of the high fees. And because of these high fees, we can also clearly see that the ones who have benefited the most from this are really Bitcoin miners and not Bitcoin holders in truth and real talk.

BTC holders do not lose anything, to be affected by TX fees you have to make a transaction; the spenders are the ones that have probably been affected. As for people who accept BTC payment in their business, surely they still do because they have nothing to lose, if there are customers that want to pay through the high TX fees, then let them do, if there are none, you receive payments through other options, so why should they remove the BTC option when they have nothing to lose.

The mempool is also cooling off, there were over 400k unconfirmed transactions some days ago, but now it is below 300k and the fee rate for transactions is also coming down, soon the people who are using this situation to spread fud about BTC will have nothing more to say.

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This entire fiasco is a short-term issue which I doubt will ever repeat again at any point in the future since whoever is responsible for it doesn't have unlimited money to burn. The silver lining here is that the miners made bank.

BTC has proven again and again that it can withstand any kind of attack which is the best answer to all of its haters.

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Quote from: Darker45 on May 09, 2023, 09:07:09 PM

I remember there were a number of Bitcoin supporters, even developers if I'm not mistaken, who brushed this Ordinals issue off when it was launched months ago saying it's not a big deal, that it will just die sooner rather than later, that they be allowed since they're paying fees for their transactions anyway, and so forth. Now, this issue has already escalated a lot and we seem to be taken back to step 1. Whether this now is a deliberate attack or not, bold steps should be taken. After all, it has already shaken the very core of Bitcoin. And I guess this transaction fee problem has not yet even reached its climax.

Regardless of what those ordinals caused, the effect on Bitcoin holders was not a good one that the majority saw. And what's worse is all the merchants who accept bitcoin payment in their businesses which in my observation have definitely stopped because of the effect of the high fees. And because of these high fees, we can also clearly see that the ones who have benefited the most from this are really Bitcoin miners and not Bitcoin holders in truth and real talk.

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Quote from: retreat on May 11, 2023, 01:13:54 AM

Quote from: tbct_mt2 on May 10, 2023, 10:20:28 AM

I think it should be allowed to use Bitcoin blockchain for transactions as fair as other reasons. We should not block some reasons that are not allowed to use Bitcoin blockchain for transactions even if the users are ready to pay transaction fee.

I don't agree with you. It's true that everyone has the right to use the Bitcoin network for their various needs, but what these ordinal lovers are doing has disturbed other users on the network. Not only users, Bitcoin devs are also getting tired of their existence and will soon take action on it (https://decrypt.co/139576/bitcoin-developer-calls-block-ordinals-brc-20-tokens-network). Indeed, Bitcoin is free for anyone to use, but that does not mean that everyone is free to do anything on the Bitcoin network, everything has rules, and if they don't like it they can create their own network and develop their own community there.

If we are not going to be sentimental here, there's no big deal in giving bitcoin network a more applicable use case, bit not to our detriment or at our own expense, then we should also considers the blockchain technology as a network that accommodate alot of other networks such as bitcoin network, smart contracts and many more, which NFT could better fit in any of such category other than the bitcoin network, but yet, if this wouldn't serve a means of threat to the entire bitcoin network in the future then it's a welcome idea, which only need to get balanced with the issue of transaction fee.

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Quote from: bbc.reporter on May 12, 2023, 11:40:55 PM

Yes, if everything has happened in a natural and organic way, for me it would be okay.

However, if there were malicious intentions, assuming that the information about the BSV developers and community are verified true, this should not be okay. Will it be okay for you?

Yes, that's the way the system works, if the BSV people want to give BTC miners a bunch of extra money then it's all good.
Miners made a lot more over the last couple of weeks and if it came at the expense of a bunch of scam artists then fine.

As a group, we have more time and money then they do.

-Dave

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Quote from: Darker45 on May 11, 2023, 12:29:16 AM

Quote from: bbc.reporter on May 10, 2023, 10:55:26 PM

@tbct_mt2. I agree on we can brush this off if all of the activity and usage on Ordinals and the trading happening in their marketplace is a natural market occurrence. However, if the speculation that the BSV community and their developers are responsible for spamming bitcoin to make the fees very high are verified true, I reckon this can be considered an attack.

I'm a bit surprised. So if the Bitcoin network has turned into a network for sending poor frog images and worthless jpegs and lewd photos and whatnot but in such a manner that the transactions are natural and not deliberately done to attack Bitcoin, it is perfectly all right?

My point is that it is secondary that what's happening right now may be an attack by the BSV community and developers. There's not even an information which conclusively points at them as the culprit. The primary concern is that the Bitcoin network may end up filled to the brim of transactions that are not monetary in nature but ones which involve mere NFT-like collections.

Would it not concern you that the main philosophy of Bitcoin as a financial technology will be compromised because of these garbage inscriptions? Can you simply brush it off because things happened naturally?

Yes, if everything has happened in a natural and organic way, for me it would be okay.

However, if there were malicious intentions, assuming that the information about the BSV developers and community are verified true, this should not be okay. Will it be okay for you?

Z390

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It's not a free attack Cheesy

and that's satisfying, since someone is paying for this I hope they can keep up as time goes on, there is always a end to everything and Ordinals will one day become a past story, let them keep attacking Bitcoin, as the only way they can keep attacking Bitcoin is spending a lots of money, the true winner is still Bitcoin.

Keep draining down their pocket Bitcoin, if you are going to go down at least there will be a larger consequences on the attackers side ..

Lol 😆. So satisfying.

retreat

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Quote from: tbct_mt2 on May 10, 2023, 10:20:28 AM

I think it should be allowed to use Bitcoin blockchain for transactions as fair as other reasons. We should not block some reasons that are not allowed to use Bitcoin blockchain for transactions even if the users are ready to pay transaction fee.

I don't agree with you. It's true that everyone has the right to use the Bitcoin network for their various needs, but what these ordinal lovers are doing has disturbed other users on the network. Not only users, Bitcoin devs are also getting tired of their existence and will soon take action on it (https://decrypt.co/139576/bitcoin-developer-calls-block-ordinals-brc-20-tokens-network). Indeed, Bitcoin is free for anyone to use, but that does not mean that everyone is free to do anything on the Bitcoin network, everything has rules, and if they don't like it they can create their own network and develop their own community there.

franky1

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ordinals is due to bitcoin core devs opening an exploit and casey(ordinals) then using the exploit
he is not a BSV.. bsv devs have no skill they are just copyright breakers then claim they own the copyright. they cant code even if they tried.
but casey is part of the sponsored devs of the corporate development of core and lightning community (not a bitcoin maxi)

anyone supporting making bitcoiners pay more fee's than fiat transfers cost. is not a bitcoiner nor a crypto supporter
bitcoin was suppose to be better then fiat

anyone supporting a subnetwork that doesnt even use blockchains has no clue of what blockchains enabled which cypherpunks/smart-contractors were unable to pre bitcoin

trying to scam people over to a insecure broken network has no clue about a real money system, especially if they want to price users out of utility

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