Topic: ATTENTION! To all Mtgox creditors (Read 905 times)
Seemed to turn out ok in the end
We should also get BCH, as Mtgox should have received an equal amount of BCH to the BTC we all had.
anyone knows something about my time coin project? need some information
i think that is a good project, could be useful
Press Release October 27, 2017
Owner of failed Mt. Gox bitcoin exchange, who lost $500m of customers money, in line for over $700m of their funds, due to legal black-hole.
The owner of the bankrupt Mt. Gox bitcoin exchange, who designed its security system, but didn’t notice repeated thefts over three years leading to losses of almost $500m of customer’s money, is due to be awarded over a $700m windfall, thanks to the recent surge in bitcoin price causing an unprecedented legal black-hole. The plans were revealed by the lawyer managing the bankruptcy last month, and the payout will come at the expense of customers, whose bitcoins were stolen and have been told to expect back just 8% of their lost investment.
The exchange, which was based in Tokyo, shut abruptly in February 2014. It later emerged that only 202,000 of the 850,000 customer’s bitcoins remained. A series of thefts were facilitated by poor security. The CEO of Mt. Gox, Mark Karepeles (32, France) is currently on trial for embezzlement and data manipulation relating to the losses. The remaining bitcoins were put in the care of a court-appointed lawyer, Nobuaki Kobayashi-sensei, to manage the bankruptcy. Since that time Mr Kobayashi has been meticulously assessing a vast number of claims from former customers. Currently 23,857 have been approved.
As is traditional with assets in a Japanese bankruptcy, customers had their bitcoin claims valued in yen, at the market rate of the day the exchange closed. On February 24th, 2014, one bitcoin was worth 50,058JPY (~$480)
Since then, the value of bitcoin has increased more than 12 fold, and Mt Gox is technically no longer insolvent. Mr Kobayashi was expected to pay claims at three times their 2014 valuation. However, at a creditors meeting on the 27th of September 2017 he confirmed that he intends to stick to the 2014 valuation, meaning customers will get back just 8% of the current value of their bitcoins. Mr Kobayashi announced that in this unprecedented case, in which the bankrupt company has become technically solvent, the law states that the surplus funds, which could be over $700m, should be returned to the shareholders. The largest shareholder, Tibanne Co. Ltd, is a company wholly owned by Mr Karpeles who ran Mt Gox, and failed to prevent numerous thefts, including one thief that returned hundreds of times a month and leached away the bulk of the exchange’s bitcoins undetected for over three years. The theft was only discovered because the exchange’s bitcoins ran out.
In a further twist, Mr Karpeles warned customers on social media about the windfall, and stated he didn’t want the money to come to him but was legally powerless to reject it due to his personal bankruptcy proceedings. The posts have since been deleted.
The unprecedented rise in bitcoin’s value this year has highlighted the inflexibility of the arcane Japanese bankruptcy statutes, which sit uncomfortably with its progressive legislation on cryptocurrencies such as bitcoin. In March the Japanese government passed laws to recognise bitcoin as a legal method of payment.
Andy Pag (42, United Kingdom) bought bitcoin in 2010 on Mt Gox and was a customer when it shut. Last month he set up MtGoxLegal, a co-operative for Mt Gox customers, and hired legal counsel in a bid to reverse the decision. “We hope we can help the Japanese justice system see beyond the outdated minutiae of the Bankruptcy Act, to the broader principles of justice and honour which the country is famous for.
“By bringing creditors together, it seems more likely the court will listen to us.”
“For many of us, it was a massive shock when the exchange suddenly closed. We’d lost everything. Then, with the price surge this year, we had hope that we could at least recoup something. And now we’re told the court will be asked to give it all to the man who bungled running the exchange. That would be a massively unjust outcome.”
27/October/2017 – for immediate release. v iii
Background and sources
Mtgoxlegal has just under 400 members and is growing. They are early adopters of bitcoin technology having bought bitcoin before 2014. Together their claims represent an estimated 60,000btc, around 7% of all the claims by value. The assets of Mt Gox are enough to honour their creditors claims at a rate of ~23%, but the trustee’s course of action means they are due to only receive 8%, based on current market value.
www.mtgoxlegal.com
Mt Gox was run by CEO Mark Karpeles, who is currently on trial in Tokyo for Embezzlement and Data Manipulation.
The Japanese government passed laws in March 2017 to recognise Bitcoin as a legal method of payment, one of the first countries to do so.
Tibanne Co. Ltd. owns 88% of Mt Gox. Mark Karpeles owns 100% of Tibanne.
Owner of failed Mt. Gox bitcoin exchange, who lost $500m of customers money, in line for over $700m of their funds, due to legal black-hole.
The owner of the bankrupt Mt. Gox bitcoin exchange, who designed its security system, but didn’t notice repeated thefts over three years leading to losses of almost $500m of customer’s money, is due to be awarded over a $700m windfall, thanks to the recent surge in bitcoin price causing an unprecedented legal black-hole. The plans were revealed by the lawyer managing the bankruptcy last month, and the payout will come at the expense of customers, whose bitcoins were stolen and have been told to expect back just 8% of their lost investment.
The exchange, which was based in Tokyo, shut abruptly in February 2014. It later emerged that only 202,000 of the 850,000 customer’s bitcoins remained. A series of thefts were facilitated by poor security. The CEO of Mt. Gox, Mark Karepeles (32, France) is currently on trial for embezzlement and data manipulation relating to the losses. The remaining bitcoins were put in the care of a court-appointed lawyer, Nobuaki Kobayashi-sensei, to manage the bankruptcy. Since that time Mr Kobayashi has been meticulously assessing a vast number of claims from former customers. Currently 23,857 have been approved.
As is traditional with assets in a Japanese bankruptcy, customers had their bitcoin claims valued in yen, at the market rate of the day the exchange closed. On February 24th, 2014, one bitcoin was worth 50,058JPY (~$480)
Since then, the value of bitcoin has increased more than 12 fold, and Mt Gox is technically no longer insolvent. Mr Kobayashi was expected to pay claims at three times their 2014 valuation. However, at a creditors meeting on the 27th of September 2017 he confirmed that he intends to stick to the 2014 valuation, meaning customers will get back just 8% of the current value of their bitcoins. Mr Kobayashi announced that in this unprecedented case, in which the bankrupt company has become technically solvent, the law states that the surplus funds, which could be over $700m, should be returned to the shareholders. The largest shareholder, Tibanne Co. Ltd, is a company wholly owned by Mr Karpeles who ran Mt Gox, and failed to prevent numerous thefts, including one thief that returned hundreds of times a month and leached away the bulk of the exchange’s bitcoins undetected for over three years. The theft was only discovered because the exchange’s bitcoins ran out.
In a further twist, Mr Karpeles warned customers on social media about the windfall, and stated he didn’t want the money to come to him but was legally powerless to reject it due to his personal bankruptcy proceedings. The posts have since been deleted.
The unprecedented rise in bitcoin’s value this year has highlighted the inflexibility of the arcane Japanese bankruptcy statutes, which sit uncomfortably with its progressive legislation on cryptocurrencies such as bitcoin. In March the Japanese government passed laws to recognise bitcoin as a legal method of payment.
Andy Pag (42, United Kingdom) bought bitcoin in 2010 on Mt Gox and was a customer when it shut. Last month he set up MtGoxLegal, a co-operative for Mt Gox customers, and hired legal counsel in a bid to reverse the decision. “We hope we can help the Japanese justice system see beyond the outdated minutiae of the Bankruptcy Act, to the broader principles of justice and honour which the country is famous for.
“By bringing creditors together, it seems more likely the court will listen to us.”
“For many of us, it was a massive shock when the exchange suddenly closed. We’d lost everything. Then, with the price surge this year, we had hope that we could at least recoup something. And now we’re told the court will be asked to give it all to the man who bungled running the exchange. That would be a massively unjust outcome.”
27/October/2017 – for immediate release. v iii
Background and sources
Mtgoxlegal has just under 400 members and is growing. They are early adopters of bitcoin technology having bought bitcoin before 2014. Together their claims represent an estimated 60,000btc, around 7% of all the claims by value. The assets of Mt Gox are enough to honour their creditors claims at a rate of ~23%, but the trustee’s course of action means they are due to only receive 8%, based on current market value.
www.mtgoxlegal.com
Mt Gox was run by CEO Mark Karpeles, who is currently on trial in Tokyo for Embezzlement and Data Manipulation.
The Japanese government passed laws in March 2017 to recognise Bitcoin as a legal method of payment, one of the first countries to do so.
Tibanne Co. Ltd. owns 88% of Mt Gox. Mark Karpeles owns 100% of Tibanne.
anyone knows something about my time coin project? need some information
new procejt, promising, good ideas anyone knows something about my time coin project? need some information
i think that is a good project, could be usefulanyone knows something about my time coin project? need some information
i think that is a good project, could be usefulanyone knows something about my time coin project? need some information
i think that is a good project, could be usefulanyone knows something about my time coin project? need some information
i think that is a good project, could be useful
anyone knows something about my time coin project? need some information
New Terms – Updated 22/Nov/17 October 25, 2017
What are you paying for?
You are essentially donating to a fund for legal action.
We’ve already raised the full amount needed to pay the lawyer to research, and proceed to the next step.
Everyone has already put in ~$100 (actually £85), and rather than close the group when we reached the target for the lawyers fee, we’ve decided to keep it open so other’s can join us.
The money we raised since then will be used to further the group’s aims. We’ve already put some of the surplus towards creating a part-time role for an administrator and voted Andy in to the job. We have volunteer IT teams, Data & Analysis teams, and a bookkeeper. We’ve created a governance board elected by the group to oversee all these activities. We’re also reaching out to support other legal actions that further our aim of fairer distribution.
How are we paying this?
Everyone chips in £85 (~$100) using this online payment system.
We haven’t had enough demand to create a bitcoin payment system. If you’re ready to pay with BTC please request it at [email protected]. But we need 12 people to make it worthwhile and so far only 3 have asked.
If you don’t have a card and are really desperate to pay another way, you can contact the administrator and arrange to contribute by Paypal.
Deadline
Making a donation to join the group is currently our only way to verify people who want to join are Mt Gox Creditors. It’s crude, and it’s a barrier to entry, so it’s not an ideal solution. We’re working on a verification solution. In the near future conditions for entering the group may change.
You can now contribute here.
What are you paying for?
You are essentially donating to a fund for legal action.
We’ve already raised the full amount needed to pay the lawyer to research, and proceed to the next step.
Everyone has already put in ~$100 (actually £85), and rather than close the group when we reached the target for the lawyers fee, we’ve decided to keep it open so other’s can join us.
The money we raised since then will be used to further the group’s aims. We’ve already put some of the surplus towards creating a part-time role for an administrator and voted Andy in to the job. We have volunteer IT teams, Data & Analysis teams, and a bookkeeper. We’ve created a governance board elected by the group to oversee all these activities. We’re also reaching out to support other legal actions that further our aim of fairer distribution.
How are we paying this?
Everyone chips in £85 (~$100) using this online payment system.
We haven’t had enough demand to create a bitcoin payment system. If you’re ready to pay with BTC please request it at [email protected]. But we need 12 people to make it worthwhile and so far only 3 have asked.
If you don’t have a card and are really desperate to pay another way, you can contact the administrator and arrange to contribute by Paypal.
Deadline
Making a donation to join the group is currently our only way to verify people who want to join are Mt Gox Creditors. It’s crude, and it’s a barrier to entry, so it’s not an ideal solution. We’re working on a verification solution. In the near future conditions for entering the group may change.
You can now contribute here.
Why would we donate for legal action for an ongoing legal action?
Japanese law says that the value had to be set, it was set at $470 or whatever it was, so that is what it will be.
It sounds like you are trying to scam people by getting them to 'chip in' $100, a significant amount of money to an unknown internet entity. I'll leave it to the law thanks!
Most people knew what they were getting into with Gox, it spiralled for a year before going under. I am only due 0.5BTC, but will just have to wait until the trial is over, then I'll find out what they decide, just like everyone else.
New Terms – Updated 22/Nov/17 October 25, 2017
What are you paying for?
You are essentially donating to a fund for legal action.
We’ve already raised the full amount needed to pay the lawyer to research, and proceed to the next step.
Everyone has already put in ~$100 (actually £85), and rather than close the group when we reached the target for the lawyers fee, we’ve decided to keep it open so other’s can join us.
The money we raised since then will be used to further the group’s aims. We’ve already put some of the surplus towards creating a part-time role for an administrator and voted Andy in to the job. We have volunteer IT teams, Data & Analysis teams, and a bookkeeper. We’ve created a governance board elected by the group to oversee all these activities. We’re also reaching out to support other legal actions that further our aim of fairer distribution.
How are we paying this?
Everyone chips in £85 (~$100) using this online payment system.
We haven’t had enough demand to create a bitcoin payment system. If you’re ready to pay with BTC please request it at [email protected]. But we need 12 people to make it worthwhile and so far only 3 have asked.
If you don’t have a card and are really desperate to pay another way, you can contact the administrator and arrange to contribute by Paypal.
Deadline
Making a donation to join the group is currently our only way to verify people who want to join are Mt Gox Creditors. It’s crude, and it’s a barrier to entry, so it’s not an ideal solution. We’re working on a verification solution. In the near future conditions for entering the group may change.
You can now contribute here.
What are you paying for?
You are essentially donating to a fund for legal action.
We’ve already raised the full amount needed to pay the lawyer to research, and proceed to the next step.
Everyone has already put in ~$100 (actually £85), and rather than close the group when we reached the target for the lawyers fee, we’ve decided to keep it open so other’s can join us.
The money we raised since then will be used to further the group’s aims. We’ve already put some of the surplus towards creating a part-time role for an administrator and voted Andy in to the job. We have volunteer IT teams, Data & Analysis teams, and a bookkeeper. We’ve created a governance board elected by the group to oversee all these activities. We’re also reaching out to support other legal actions that further our aim of fairer distribution.
How are we paying this?
Everyone chips in £85 (~$100) using this online payment system.
We haven’t had enough demand to create a bitcoin payment system. If you’re ready to pay with BTC please request it at [email protected]. But we need 12 people to make it worthwhile and so far only 3 have asked.
If you don’t have a card and are really desperate to pay another way, you can contact the administrator and arrange to contribute by Paypal.
Deadline
Making a donation to join the group is currently our only way to verify people who want to join are Mt Gox Creditors. It’s crude, and it’s a barrier to entry, so it’s not an ideal solution. We’re working on a verification solution. In the near future conditions for entering the group may change.
You can now contribute here.
Accountability update. October 22, 2017
Just over a week ago, I told everyone that for all the psuedo-accountability I was presenting, in the end it just came down to having to trust me.
Well I’m working on changing that this week, so things won’t have to rely on just trust anymore.
Accounting
Already we have a volunteer bookkeeper, yyy. A big thanks to him for volunteering. The IT team (now on with their own email address: [email protected]) have arranged for the stripe income report to be emailed automatically to YYY every week. I’ll provide him with receipts for outgoings, and an update on paypal income manually. (That’s another reason why I’m trying to avoid Paypal contributions). He’ll provide a monthly update of how the finances are looking and reconcile it with the balance of accounts to make sure it’s all where it should be.
Governance
Next, I want to set up a Governance Board, a bit like a Board of Directors, if I were an MD. They will have the power to hold me to account, question my decisions, and replace me if needed. I can share sensitive information with them when it’s in everybody’s interest that that information is kept temporarily secret. This protects me from being accused of keeping information for my own benefit.
They will also review, and approve me carrying on being paid each month, for the next three months.
Exactly how we will work is open to suggestions from them. Perhaps a weekly skype conference call, and published minutes for the whole group to read. Perhaps they have other suggestions.
When we have a few candidates volunteering here I’ll ask them to give a biog, an outline of their claim size, and suggestions on how they would like to run the Governance board, and then contributors will vote to select 3-5 people. We already have some good candidates, but I urge others to get involved. For instance so far I think the list is all male volunteers, which I think is a weakness.
To some this may seem a little over-complicated. But it’s important for two reasons: firstly to build trust in the decisions we are taking, and secondly so we have authority when I (or whoever is representing us) is negotiating on our behalf to the court, or with other vested interests.
Just over a week ago, I told everyone that for all the psuedo-accountability I was presenting, in the end it just came down to having to trust me.
Well I’m working on changing that this week, so things won’t have to rely on just trust anymore.
Accounting
Already we have a volunteer bookkeeper, yyy. A big thanks to him for volunteering. The IT team (now on with their own email address: [email protected]) have arranged for the stripe income report to be emailed automatically to YYY every week. I’ll provide him with receipts for outgoings, and an update on paypal income manually. (That’s another reason why I’m trying to avoid Paypal contributions). He’ll provide a monthly update of how the finances are looking and reconcile it with the balance of accounts to make sure it’s all where it should be.
Governance
Next, I want to set up a Governance Board, a bit like a Board of Directors, if I were an MD. They will have the power to hold me to account, question my decisions, and replace me if needed. I can share sensitive information with them when it’s in everybody’s interest that that information is kept temporarily secret. This protects me from being accused of keeping information for my own benefit.
They will also review, and approve me carrying on being paid each month, for the next three months.
Exactly how we will work is open to suggestions from them. Perhaps a weekly skype conference call, and published minutes for the whole group to read. Perhaps they have other suggestions.
When we have a few candidates volunteering here I’ll ask them to give a biog, an outline of their claim size, and suggestions on how they would like to run the Governance board, and then contributors will vote to select 3-5 people. We already have some good candidates, but I urge others to get involved. For instance so far I think the list is all male volunteers, which I think is a weakness.
To some this may seem a little over-complicated. But it’s important for two reasons: firstly to build trust in the decisions we are taking, and secondly so we have authority when I (or whoever is representing us) is negotiating on our behalf to the court, or with other vested interests.
We reached $30k in six days! October 19, 2017
Good news. We’ve now hit the target of $30k. It’s an amazing job in under a week. I think above all it shows how important this is to a lot of people.
We have: £22,598,56 in card takings, and £768.45 paid to me on Paypal.
£23,3367.01 in total.
Sekido’s invoice has arrived, and there’s no mention of tax on it so the extra 8% is not a worry.
I will send the first $10k payment to him tomorrow as soon as the funds transfer into my account from stripe.
Continuing membership
I think it’s a bad idea to close down continued membership of the group. In a posting on his website, Kolin Burgess (www.mtgoxprotest.com) has said he only partially supports what we are doing because of the exclusivity around it. It think that’s a fair comment and in an ideal world now that we have enough to pay the lawyer, my aim would be to make this free to others, with perhaps a nominal admin fee to cover costs.
There’s a few problems with that. 1/ This might seem unfair to those that have already paid, and wasn’t the terms they agreed to contribute to. Secondly it would be foolish for me to leave this without a reserve of fund to help with expenses on the horizon as things develop, (US law suit for BTCe, Lobbying in japan, but moreover, some admin to establish the creditors committee) so I would like us to build up a small reserve of funds, to cover future expenses.
Then there’s also the question of covering my time. Thanks for your responses on that question. I think there’s an overwhelming support for me to be paid, with a few caveats, so let me address my thoughts on those caveats now:
There’s a sense that this shouldn’t be a recurring payment. OK, I’m fine with that, but it will need to recur as long as I’m working on it. There’s also a question about the size of it. That’s my rate for my time and I have no problems getting other work so it’s not negotiable. If this was an initiative to help the hungry and homeless, then I would consider lowering my living standards to help, but it’s a long way from that.
Others have suggested a fee to cover my time should be raised seperately. I’m fine with that, but I’m not investing time into doing that, so if someone wants to take the reins, whatever they raise can come off the what I’m paid from the fund.
The website says, that any sums collected over the necessary, would be refunded pro-rata or put to an agreed use to help the furtherance of our objectives, and I think paying me for time fits within that. It feels uncomfortable for me as this started as a project I thought I’d sink my teeth into to get it rolling for a few days. If anyone has any strong reservations then contact me and we’ll think of a way to refund your investments. I will update the website now to make it clearly explicit for newcomers.
Finally there’s the issue of the management fee for the IT team. It wasn’t my suggestion and those that want to can make the case for it, however I think it’s disappointing that if this initiative brings people an extra £1000, they wouldn’t feel it fair to thank the people who started it with £1!
The website says, that any sums collected over the necessary, would be refunded pro-rata or put to an agreed use to help the furtherance of our objectives, and I think paying me for time fits within that. It feels uncomfortable for me that this has turned into a financial arrangement, as this started as a project I thought I’d sink my teeth into to get it rolling for a few days and didn’t expect more from it – Originally I was going to bankroll the lawyer and invite contributions. If anyone has any strong reservations how it’s turned out then contact me and we’ll think of a way to refund your investments.
So for those reasons I think we should leave the door open, and maintain the contributor fee for now, until we have Sekido’s advice back and review the situation based on that. (E.g. If we need sizeable membership to prove authority to the court.)
Governance.
I think it’s time that we had a proper governance board. So far it has been Ben, Samson and Hideki who I have referred to who have acted as councillors, as well as IT team. I think it’s time we did this in a more transparent way. So my suggestion is that once we are able to log into the secure forum, then I’d like 2-3 volunteers to put themselves forward and make their true identities known to that group, in a way like I’ve done, and they can then act as governance board that I report to and who audit my actions and accounts. This will also create a structure in which I can be replaced if I can’t go on, or it’s decided I’m doing it badly.
I know people in the close team have some alternative suggestions too. I’ll let them raise them if they feel it’s necessary.
Creditors committee.
This is a top priority in my view. I’m now confident we will be able to use a really well suited email list, and I think Sekido’s first job is to ascertain from the court a procedure that they deem acceptable so we can contact as many creditors as possible and get them to give consent to the court in an easy way.
Kolin Burgess and others are also already working on this, and I spoke to them about how we can bring our group’s strengths to support the plan. I think our strengths are this email list, and the potential energy of this lawyer to sniff out a way to get the court to approve a methodology. I’m speaking to a few people about who could be on the creditors committee. We can discuss this in the forum and here. Kolin has another great suggestion: that the committee should devise a manifesto which lays out the philosophy of the outcome we’re aiming for. Sounds simple, but there’s actually a lot of thought needs to go into ti. More about that in another email. I want to get this email out to you all for now to say congratulations on hitting the 30k. We have a lawyer.
Good news. We’ve now hit the target of $30k. It’s an amazing job in under a week. I think above all it shows how important this is to a lot of people.
We have: £22,598,56 in card takings, and £768.45 paid to me on Paypal.
£23,3367.01 in total.
Sekido’s invoice has arrived, and there’s no mention of tax on it so the extra 8% is not a worry.
I will send the first $10k payment to him tomorrow as soon as the funds transfer into my account from stripe.
Continuing membership
I think it’s a bad idea to close down continued membership of the group. In a posting on his website, Kolin Burgess (www.mtgoxprotest.com) has said he only partially supports what we are doing because of the exclusivity around it. It think that’s a fair comment and in an ideal world now that we have enough to pay the lawyer, my aim would be to make this free to others, with perhaps a nominal admin fee to cover costs.
There’s a few problems with that. 1/ This might seem unfair to those that have already paid, and wasn’t the terms they agreed to contribute to. Secondly it would be foolish for me to leave this without a reserve of fund to help with expenses on the horizon as things develop, (US law suit for BTCe, Lobbying in japan, but moreover, some admin to establish the creditors committee) so I would like us to build up a small reserve of funds, to cover future expenses.
Then there’s also the question of covering my time. Thanks for your responses on that question. I think there’s an overwhelming support for me to be paid, with a few caveats, so let me address my thoughts on those caveats now:
There’s a sense that this shouldn’t be a recurring payment. OK, I’m fine with that, but it will need to recur as long as I’m working on it. There’s also a question about the size of it. That’s my rate for my time and I have no problems getting other work so it’s not negotiable. If this was an initiative to help the hungry and homeless, then I would consider lowering my living standards to help, but it’s a long way from that.
Others have suggested a fee to cover my time should be raised seperately. I’m fine with that, but I’m not investing time into doing that, so if someone wants to take the reins, whatever they raise can come off the what I’m paid from the fund.
The website says, that any sums collected over the necessary, would be refunded pro-rata or put to an agreed use to help the furtherance of our objectives, and I think paying me for time fits within that. It feels uncomfortable for me as this started as a project I thought I’d sink my teeth into to get it rolling for a few days. If anyone has any strong reservations then contact me and we’ll think of a way to refund your investments. I will update the website now to make it clearly explicit for newcomers.
Finally there’s the issue of the management fee for the IT team. It wasn’t my suggestion and those that want to can make the case for it, however I think it’s disappointing that if this initiative brings people an extra £1000, they wouldn’t feel it fair to thank the people who started it with £1!
The website says, that any sums collected over the necessary, would be refunded pro-rata or put to an agreed use to help the furtherance of our objectives, and I think paying me for time fits within that. It feels uncomfortable for me that this has turned into a financial arrangement, as this started as a project I thought I’d sink my teeth into to get it rolling for a few days and didn’t expect more from it – Originally I was going to bankroll the lawyer and invite contributions. If anyone has any strong reservations how it’s turned out then contact me and we’ll think of a way to refund your investments.
So for those reasons I think we should leave the door open, and maintain the contributor fee for now, until we have Sekido’s advice back and review the situation based on that. (E.g. If we need sizeable membership to prove authority to the court.)
Governance.
I think it’s time that we had a proper governance board. So far it has been Ben, Samson and Hideki who I have referred to who have acted as councillors, as well as IT team. I think it’s time we did this in a more transparent way. So my suggestion is that once we are able to log into the secure forum, then I’d like 2-3 volunteers to put themselves forward and make their true identities known to that group, in a way like I’ve done, and they can then act as governance board that I report to and who audit my actions and accounts. This will also create a structure in which I can be replaced if I can’t go on, or it’s decided I’m doing it badly.
I know people in the close team have some alternative suggestions too. I’ll let them raise them if they feel it’s necessary.
Creditors committee.
This is a top priority in my view. I’m now confident we will be able to use a really well suited email list, and I think Sekido’s first job is to ascertain from the court a procedure that they deem acceptable so we can contact as many creditors as possible and get them to give consent to the court in an easy way.
Kolin Burgess and others are also already working on this, and I spoke to them about how we can bring our group’s strengths to support the plan. I think our strengths are this email list, and the potential energy of this lawyer to sniff out a way to get the court to approve a methodology. I’m speaking to a few people about who could be on the creditors committee. We can discuss this in the forum and here. Kolin has another great suggestion: that the committee should devise a manifesto which lays out the philosophy of the outcome we’re aiming for. Sounds simple, but there’s actually a lot of thought needs to go into ti. More about that in another email. I want to get this email out to you all for now to say congratulations on hitting the 30k. We have a lawyer.
The Forum October 19, 2017
Tomorrow we’ll be opening the Forum. This is the area where all the legal information provided by our lawyer will be shared. We’re also looking at how to establish a creditors committee and there’s a thread for that.
I’m uploading the accounts there too, and a request for volunteers to form a governance board. This is really important to help me all be more transparent.
A massive thanks to Bkava, Samson and Hideki who have done an amazing job putting it all together. Several late nights and early morning.
Confirmations will go out tomorrow to the email addresses you used when paying with Stripe. If you don’t receive one by the end of Friday, then email me with your credit card transaction details.
I’ve now removed correspondences to Sekido from this public site. If any prospective contributor wants to scrutinise them before making committing to join the group then please email me also.
Tomorrow we’ll be opening the Forum. This is the area where all the legal information provided by our lawyer will be shared. We’re also looking at how to establish a creditors committee and there’s a thread for that.
I’m uploading the accounts there too, and a request for volunteers to form a governance board. This is really important to help me all be more transparent.
A massive thanks to Bkava, Samson and Hideki who have done an amazing job putting it all together. Several late nights and early morning.
Confirmations will go out tomorrow to the email addresses you used when paying with Stripe. If you don’t receive one by the end of Friday, then email me with your credit card transaction details.
I’ve now removed correspondences to Sekido from this public site. If any prospective contributor wants to scrutinise them before making committing to join the group then please email me also.
Commissioning letter to Sekido, and other news
I’ve written a draft letter highlighting questions, information, and legal approaches raised in the Google group. I’m not going to publish it here in public, but it is now in the Google Group. Title “Commissioning Letter to Sekido”. Please comment on it so I can make sure all valid points are considered.
The IT volunteers, Ben, Neil and Hideki (big thanks to them), are in the process of building a user-friendly and more organised forum for discussion and information sharing for creditors that have contributed. More details on how to log on shortly.
I will continue to manage the Google group as well, but in fairness to those that have contributed, I will not be contributing information and expertise picked up from interactions with the lawyer in the Google group.
A few people have emailed me privately and asked me to keep the window for contributions open until the end of this month to cover their pay day. This seems like a fair request. The rate of contributions has dropped off but we are moving up the totaliser. As previously stated, I will review the situation and give a financial update at the end of this week. (Friday, or the weekend).
I’ve written a draft letter highlighting questions, information, and legal approaches raised in the Google group. I’m not going to publish it here in public, but it is now in the Google Group. Title “Commissioning Letter to Sekido”. Please comment on it so I can make sure all valid points are considered.
The IT volunteers, Ben, Neil and Hideki (big thanks to them), are in the process of building a user-friendly and more organised forum for discussion and information sharing for creditors that have contributed. More details on how to log on shortly.
I will continue to manage the Google group as well, but in fairness to those that have contributed, I will not be contributing information and expertise picked up from interactions with the lawyer in the Google group.
A few people have emailed me privately and asked me to keep the window for contributions open until the end of this month to cover their pay day. This seems like a fair request. The rate of contributions has dropped off but we are moving up the totaliser. As previously stated, I will review the situation and give a financial update at the end of this week. (Friday, or the weekend).
We've reached $10k
We currently have 105 creditors who have contributed, so have made the target we need for tier 1 – Research.
I originally said I’m going to leave funding open for a week and review it then. I’m going to stick to that for now for two reasons.
Firstly because there will be more funding needed later and any more that comes in will go towards making that second round easier. Also the more people invested in the group the lighter the fundraising burden on each one for the next round.
Secondly, I don’t want this to be an exclusive opportunity for just some creditors, leaving others out in the cold. There’s been enough vested interests working quietly behind closed doors in this saga. Giving people just a 24 hour window to get involved seems unfair.
I’ve written to Sekido this morning to tell him that we have his fee. I’ve sent him my ID. (At this stage mine is the only ID he needs), and asked him to send me the customer contract.
If we get close to hitting $30,000 before the end of the week, I will review again if we should close up or continue. Please put your thoughts on this in the google group. Personally I think a Public Advocacy fund might prove to be very helpful. And I’d like there to be a way for people who only find out about this initiative at some point in the future to not be prevented from joining.
The money raised with Stripe will be available to withdraw to the dedicated bank account in one week, (I will add the 2 paypal contributions to it), and then will take about a week to transfer to Japan. I’ll use Transferwise to get the best rate.
I’m removing the paypal link, because for some reason it doesn’t work, and secondly I want to keep money for this separate from my own personal accounts. If for some reason you’re desperate to pay by paypal you can email me explaining why, and we can find a way to do it.
Several people have commented how ridiculous it is not to be collecting money via BTC. I agree, but the price fluctuation make it challenging, along with AML laws, and my personal tax liabilities if I’m handling it. So for that reason I haven’t done it. If anyone else want’s to volunteer to organise it I’m happy to co-ordinate with them.
Thanks everyone for contributing. I’m really glad we’re making this happen.
We currently have 105 creditors who have contributed, so have made the target we need for tier 1 – Research.
I originally said I’m going to leave funding open for a week and review it then. I’m going to stick to that for now for two reasons.
Firstly because there will be more funding needed later and any more that comes in will go towards making that second round easier. Also the more people invested in the group the lighter the fundraising burden on each one for the next round.
Secondly, I don’t want this to be an exclusive opportunity for just some creditors, leaving others out in the cold. There’s been enough vested interests working quietly behind closed doors in this saga. Giving people just a 24 hour window to get involved seems unfair.
I’ve written to Sekido this morning to tell him that we have his fee. I’ve sent him my ID. (At this stage mine is the only ID he needs), and asked him to send me the customer contract.
If we get close to hitting $30,000 before the end of the week, I will review again if we should close up or continue. Please put your thoughts on this in the google group. Personally I think a Public Advocacy fund might prove to be very helpful. And I’d like there to be a way for people who only find out about this initiative at some point in the future to not be prevented from joining.
The money raised with Stripe will be available to withdraw to the dedicated bank account in one week, (I will add the 2 paypal contributions to it), and then will take about a week to transfer to Japan. I’ll use Transferwise to get the best rate.
I’m removing the paypal link, because for some reason it doesn’t work, and secondly I want to keep money for this separate from my own personal accounts. If for some reason you’re desperate to pay by paypal you can email me explaining why, and we can find a way to do it.
Several people have commented how ridiculous it is not to be collecting money via BTC. I agree, but the price fluctuation make it challenging, along with AML laws, and my personal tax liabilities if I’m handling it. So for that reason I haven’t done it. If anyone else want’s to volunteer to organise it I’m happy to co-ordinate with them.
Thanks everyone for contributing. I’m really glad we’re making this happen.
That's the problem. Well is not so fair for creditors. Let see how that will proceed.
Related:
https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/mark-karpeles-will-end-taking-859-million-mt-gox-bankruptcy/
If this shit is true, karpeles will be rewarded $0.86 billion worth of btc and could crash the market.
https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/mark-karpeles-will-end-taking-859-million-mt-gox-bankruptcy/
If this shit is true, karpeles will be rewarded $0.86 billion worth of btc and could crash the market.
But what if it was the opposite, bitcoin today worth 0. People would be happy taking th 470.
That's not the way it works, they still have the 202,000 Bitcoin.
If Bitcoin went to zero or even a few hundred dollars then we would get pretty much nothing at all because they have sold nothing.
If Bitcoin goes lower than $2400 per coin which is the 'breakeven point' at the original claim value of $480 per coin then we will get less than our original claim amount back.
If bitcoin went to $1200 then we would expect only around $240 per coin.
So we have (or had) everything to lose at the time and the trustee kept hold of the Coins exposing us to risk, once he had enough instead of selling the coins and paying us he decided to keep them and enrich the owners of the company on our claim assets.
Bringing MtGox out of bankrupty into Civil Rehabilitation appears to be a good way to address this imbalance.
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