[Aug 2022] Mempool empty! Use this opportunity to Consolidate your small inputs! - page 48.

LoyceV

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Quote from: aplistir on March 01, 2018, 02:22:37 PM

No-one has said what is the minimum amount of inputs that would benefit from consolidating inputs?

Any number of inputs larger than 1 can be benefit.

Quote

Is it necessary to consolidate 2 inputs? How about 3 or 4?

It depends on how fees develop. Fees have been more than 0.001BTC per input. If you consolidate 3 inputs now, and you need to make a transaction if fees are that high again, you'll safe $10 or more per input you consolidate now.

Quote

How much savings would that make, if the fees go back to high levels?

Play around with the sliders on https://coinb.in/#fees , it tells you exactly how many bytes you can safe.

aplistir

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No-one has said what is the minimum amount of inputs that would benefit from consolidating inputs?

LoyceV mentioned that he consolidated 3 inputs.

Is it necessary to consolidate 2 inputs? How about 3 or 4?

How much savings would that make, if the fees go back to high levels?

pooya87

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Quote from: LoyceV on February 26, 2018, 04:51:05 AM

Meanwhile, https://btc.com/stats/unconfirmed-tx recommends 1 Sat/Byte, and https://coinb.in/#fees goes as low as 0 (note: I don't recommend to send zero-fee transactions anymore; they might round 0.49 down to zero).

the problem with fees lower than 1 satoshi/byte is propagation. thanks to one of bitcoin core's recent updates (i think was 0.15) you can no longer set it lower than that because majority of the network will reject your transaction!
otherwise if you can get your transaction to the miners, most of them will mine it 0.684 sat/B

same with 0 (free) transactions. even when this PR was merged, there were miners still mining 0 fee transactions

Stedsm

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Quote from: LoyceV on February 26, 2018, 07:23:25 AM

Quote from: TheQuin on February 26, 2018, 07:13:15 AM

One other way they attempt to set fees is by not including transactions below a certain level. For example, F2pool is ignoring anything below 5 sat/vbyte.

I noticed that indeed. As long as only a few mining pool do this, it's just their loss: I give my $0.05 to another miner. It would be a problem if many miners do this, but in the end they too need a working Bitcoin network for it to keep it's value.
Long-term, it's irrational to ignore transactions because it's only a small amount.

I used the wrong word "miners" in my said post, but what I meant was similar to TheQuin that if the pools decide to go against the users by refusing to take their low fee transactions and once an end-user goes helpless, he/she will need to keep it as high as they want it to be, right?
If awareness is the only thing that was needed, where were those miners then when the network was filled with such low-fee transactions and these pools manipulated the fees to such ridiculous levels that currently made us regret for our deeds - by transacting at their asked values.

How can you exactly say that every user is now aware of the fact that they can decide not to choose what's recommended by their wallets?

You can still check that there are still some limited number of transactions with as much as 100 sats/byte (ref: https://bitcoinfees.earn.com). Should I consider them those who're currently unaware about this?

LoyceV

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Quote from: TheQuin on February 26, 2018, 07:13:15 AM

One other way they attempt to set fees is by not including transactions below a certain level. For example, F2pool is ignoring anything below 5 sat/vbyte.

I noticed that indeed. As long as only a few mining pool do this, it's just their loss: I give my $0.05 to another miner. It would be a problem if many miners do this, but in the end they too need a working Bitcoin network for it to keep it's value.
Long-term, it's irrational to ignore transactions because it's only a small amount.

TheQuin

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Quote from: LoyceV on February 26, 2018, 04:51:05 AM

Miners don't set fees (unless they engage in spamming the network)

One other way they attempt to set fees is by not including transactions below a certain level. For example, F2pool is ignoring anything below 5 sat/vbyte.

https://btc.com/00000000000000000038714687ae289db0d6d4a5beaa2f338108e78a37e0133b?page=1&asc=1&order_by=fee

Several other pools including Antpool were doing it recently although they seem to have given up now and excepting low fees are here for a while.

LoyceV

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Quote from: Stedsm on February 26, 2018, 03:22:14 AM

what I wish to know is - as these costs are currently down (this must be on miners' consent, right?), will it continue to be the same for at least a few years just like a new beginning, or mempool may get congested back once again if any spam attacks take place?

Miners don't set fees (unless they engage in spamming the network), users set fees. Or in most cases: wallets set fees! Last week, my Android app Mycelium recommended a few Sat/Byte as standard fee. Mycelium is now back to 93 Sat/Byte as a recommendation to be confirmed within 30 minutes. If I set it manually, I can't go lower than 3.
Meanwhile, https://btc.com/stats/unconfirmed-tx recommends 1 Sat/Byte, and https://coinb.in/#fees goes as low as 0 (note: I don't recommend to send zero-fee transactions anymore; they might round 0.49 down to zero).

The best way to stop high fees forever, is awareness. As long as people are willing to pay $20 per transaction, a very small increase in the number of transactions leads to a very strong increase in fees.
Anyone who just accepts the fee recommended by Mycelium (or many other wallets) pays 100 times more than needed!

Stedsm

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Quote from: LoyceV on February 25, 2018, 03:23:40 PM

Quote from: HCP on February 25, 2018, 02:47:49 PM

I used the "0.00001000 BTC/kB" minimum fee in Bitcoin Core

I wanted to go lower, but I bumped into that minimum fee too! Older versions of Bitcoin Core could send transactions without fee too, so I guess the few transactions with less than 1 Sat/Byte fee are made with those.

Missed the next block confirmation, but dang - I've got it confirmed in the second block after the tx created:
Virtual Bytes size was 260 with a rawtx Size of 489 bytes.
Fees 0.00000860 BTC
Fees Rate (BTC / kVB) 0.00003496 BTC
Feeling extremely happy that old days are back when we used to pay fees in cents, but what I wish to know is - as these costs are currently down (this must be on miners' consent, right?), will it continue to be the same for at least a few years just like a new beginning, or mempool may get congested back once again if any spam attacks take place?

EDIT: 1 more transaction made recently with just $0.04 as fee, and guess what!?
I've got it confirmed the next minute.
Details here:
Virtual Bytes size was 110 with a rawtx Size of 191 bytes.
Fees 0.00000384 BTC (Only 2 Sats/byte)
Fees Rate (BTC / kVB) 0.00003491 BTC Cheesy

LoyceV

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Quote from: HCP on February 25, 2018, 02:47:49 PM

I used the "0.00001000 BTC/kB" minimum fee in Bitcoin Core

I wanted to go lower, but I bumped into that minimum fee too! Older versions of Bitcoin Core could send transactions without fee too, so I guess the few transactions with less than 1 Sat/Byte fee are made with those.

HCP

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I sent a 1225 byte transaction today... (737 "virtual" bytes thanks to SegWit)... I used the "0.00001000 BTC/kB" minimum fee in Bitcoin Core, so it attached a fee of 0.00000737 BTC... 737 sats! That's 7c at current "google" exchange.

I got next block confirmation!!?! Shocked

#trueStory

LoyceV

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I've never seen this: https://btc.com/stats/unconfirmed-tx recommends 0 Sat/byte fee! I haven't found a recent confirmed transaction with 0 fee yet.
https://coinb.in/#fees still recommends 1 Sat/Byte, but several big transactions with less than 1 Sat/Byte fee got confirmed in just minutes. Blocks aren't even full!

I'm not sure what causes this reduction in transactions, it could be people make less transactions since the high fees (I do!), it could spam attacks ended, it could be Bitcoin is less hyped since the price isn't going up fast anymore, it could be caused by less merchants accepting it since fees were this high, or it could also be people refusing to pay very high transaction fees at exchanges (up to 0.002 BTC is still quite common).
Whatever the reason, this is still a great opportunity to consolidate your small inputs! I have no doubt fees will rise again at some point in the future.

pooya87

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i found out that the best option to choose fees is using this website: https://jochen-hoenicke.de/queue/
so far bitcoinfees.earn.com is inaccurate and leads to higher fees. coinb.in is better but i haven't checked it in long term to see how it performs under different circumstances.

https://jochen-hoenicke.de/queue/ is simply the representation of transactions in the memory pool and the amount of fees they are paying.
set the interval to 24 hours and look at last chart (Mempool size in MB). mouse over the last point(s) and see how much size is on how much fee. for example in below picture 2.4+ MB is paying 2+ fees. that is 1130 transactions. bitcoin blocks are currently around 1-1.2 MB so anything above 2 Satoshi/Byte has a high chance of giving you high priority.
i use size (last chart) instead of count (first chart) because sometimes mempool is filled with small transactions and sometimes large ones. so you don't know if 100 tx paying 5 s/b is going to fill the block or only take up 10% of it for example.

hopefully we see Electrum 3.1 sooner and see other wallets and websites implement this method instead.

LoyceV

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Usually, Sundays are the best days to make transactions with low fee. I just made this transaction: 3 uncompressed legacy inputs, 1 output, 582 bytes, and 0.00001BTC (0.01mBTC / 1000 Satoshis / $0.11) fee (1.718 sat/B). It confirmed in 4 minutes.

The same block also included many transactions with 1 sat/B fee, and many good examples of what this thread is all about: this 8907 bytes transaction with 1.106 sat/B fee confirmed after 4 days. One dollar in fees to consolidate 0.19BTC!

LoyceV

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Fees are still low.

I stumbled upon https://coinb.in/#fees as a brilliant fee estimator! I forgot who posted it (sorry), so can't give credit.
It currently recommends 2 sat/byte for a fast confirmation. In the spirit of this topic, when you're not in a hurry, you can go lower.

jackg

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https://bit.ly/387FXHi lightning theory

Quote from: LoyceV on February 15, 2018, 03:00:08 PM

Quote from: jackg on February 15, 2018, 02:17:43 PM

Where's the 3 Sat per byte one? I see 112 (sorry, wanted to see where it was to get an estimate on transferring one piece of dust just to get it out of one of my wallets).

It currently even recommends 1 sat/byte. Fees vary depending on how long it takes to find a block, I'd say consolidate your "one piece of dust" with another input now. Pay about 800 sat fee, and wait.

Next time I need to move all my keys I might just do it then. It's 0.0001BTC but it's just stuck in a wallet on it's own (fairly dissappointing).

Quote from: lite on February 15, 2018, 04:11:10 PM

Quote from: LoyceV on February 15, 2018, 03:00:08 PM

Quote from: jackg on February 15, 2018, 02:17:43 PM

Where's the 3 Sat per byte one? I see 112 (sorry, wanted to see where it was to get an estimate on transferring one piece of dust just to get it out of one of my wallets).

It currently even recommends 1 sat/byte. Fees vary depending on how long it takes to find a block, I'd say consolidate your "one piece of dust" with another input now. Pay about 800 sat fee, and wait.

It keeps fluctuating lol, currently it recommends 4 sat/byte. i've moved my bitcoins to segwit address as soon as it was implemented on trezor.

thanks for the thread anyways, should be helpful to newbies.

I wanted to share this good tool(maybe add it in op?) (https://estimatefee.com), helps in estimating within how many blocks the tx will get confirmed, also calculates fees.

That's a great tool. Next time I need to consolidate my other transactions into one, I'm going to try the 1004 blocks recommendation and see how it does (providing it doesn't get rejected by the network as I think there was a protocolled minimum for most miner nodes now).

Unibright

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Fees going down is essential for Bitcoin being used normally again like it once was... past months have just been too pricey to send smaller input

lite

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Quote from: LoyceV on February 15, 2018, 03:00:08 PM

Quote from: jackg on February 15, 2018, 02:17:43 PM

Where's the 3 Sat per byte one? I see 112 (sorry, wanted to see where it was to get an estimate on transferring one piece of dust just to get it out of one of my wallets).

It currently even recommends 1 sat/byte. Fees vary depending on how long it takes to find a block, I'd say consolidate your "one piece of dust" with another input now. Pay about 800 sat fee, and wait.

It keeps fluctuating lol, currently it recommends 4 sat/byte. i've moved my bitcoins to segwit address as soon as it was implemented on trezor.

thanks for the thread anyways, should be helpful to newbies.

I wanted to share this good tool(maybe add it in op?) (https://estimatefee.com), helps in estimating within how many blocks the tx will get confirmed, also calculates fees.

LoyceV

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Quote from: jackg on February 15, 2018, 02:17:43 PM

Where's the 3 Sat per byte one? I see 112 (sorry, wanted to see where it was to get an estimate on transferring one piece of dust just to get it out of one of my wallets).

It currently even recommends 1 sat/byte. Fees vary depending on how long it takes to find a block, I'd say consolidate your "one piece of dust" with another input now. Pay about 800 sat fee, and wait.

jackg

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https://bit.ly/387FXHi lightning theory

Quote from: ?? on ??

Bump! Fees are still low.

I stumbled upon https://coinb.in/#fees as a brilliant fee estimator! I forgot who posted it (sorry), so can't give credit.
It currently recommends 3 sat/byte for a fast confirmation. In the spirit of this topic, when you're not in a hurry, you can go lower.

Where's the 3 Sat per byte one? I see 112 (sorry, wanted to see where it was to get an estimate on transferring one piece of dust just to get it out of one of my wallets).

That's a really great link as well. The dynamic sliders are quite good and give a great estimate for the fee, credits to the developer for the great site!

nullius

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If you don’t do PGP, you don’t do crypto!

Thank you for making this thread, LoyceV. You’ve saved me real money.

Since I first saw this, I’ve been doing transactions with fees far lower than I would have otherwise even considered attempting, much less dared to try. This is not to consolidate anything (I mostly avoid coin-merge), but just for ordinary transactions.

Of course, it should go without saying, I’ve been exclusively using Segwit addresses for months (both nested and native). That also helps significantly.

Topic: [Aug 2022] Mempool empty! Use this opportunity to Consolidate your small inputs! - page 48. (Read 83705 times)