Australian Govt. form asks if I own any Bitcoin of Cryptocurrency - page 3.

valiron

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Activity: 311

Merit: 250

Quote from: awesome31312 on September 27, 2014, 05:48:56 PM

Quote from: valiron on September 27, 2014, 05:28:41 PM

Quote from: awesome31312 on September 27, 2014, 05:23:01 PM

Quote from: valiron on September 27, 2014, 05:08:31 PM

Quote from: Whtwabbit on September 26, 2014, 12:33:35 AM

I recently had a brain tumor removed and I had my right side Balance hearing mechanics removed, I am applying for disability until i recover.

Filling out the form I came across the question "Do you own any bitcoin or cryptocurrency"

Comments?

Answer none since your brainwallet was damaged. It may recover in the future Grin

That was very clever, made me laugh

It is funny but serious. Ownership can only be defined as "knowing your private key". Sometimes I forget things. Sometimes, later on, I remember them again. Nobody can blame you for that. Grin

Conveniently selective memory

The subconscient mind is a mystery...what can I do?

TRYpolar

member

Activity: 61

Merit: 10

Quote from: BittBurger on September 27, 2014, 04:20:18 PM

Quote

They cannot find out if you have any BTC so you might as well say no.

Playing devil's advocate: What if he bought them on Coinbase. Is the simple fact that he may have "moved" them out of the coinbase system to another address, sufficient to say "I no longer have them" ?

(applies only to USA people of course)

-B-

Probably not. As is the case with fiat money, just because money is not in your bank account does not mean you do not have it (you either moved it somewhere else or spent it on other, non money-based assets - or services).

In other words if you moved your money out of your coinbase account then you would have either have control of the bitcoin at an other address or used the bitcoin to buy some other asset

MineForeman.com

legendary

Activity: 896

Merit: 1000

Where do you guys think this disability money comes from?

It is from YOUR pocket, why are you encouraging people to fraudulently steal from you?

(And yeah, it is in australia but people will be doing this in your country to you)

awesome31312

hero member

Activity: 826

Merit: 504

Quote from: Whtwabbit on September 27, 2014, 06:28:42 PM

Answer none since your brainwallet was damaged. It may recover in the future Grin

[/quote]

That was very clever, made me laugh

[/quote]

It is funny but serious. Ownership can only be defined as "knowing your private key". Sometimes I forget things. Sometimes, later on, I remember them again. Nobody can blame you for that. Grin

[/quote]

Conveniently selective memory
[/quote]

Ha llike most politicians and ceo's have in front of a judge and jury
[/quote]

I was gonna say that I swear

Whtwabbit

sr. member

Activity: 490

Merit: 266

[/quote]

Answer none since your brainwallet was damaged. It may recover in the future Grin

[/quote]

That was very clever, made me laugh

[/quote]

It is funny but serious. Ownership can only be defined as "knowing your private key". Sometimes I forget things. Sometimes, later on, I remember them again. Nobody can blame you for that. Grin

[/quote]

Conveniently selective memory
[/quote]

Ha llike most politicians and ceo's have in front of a judge and jury

awesome31312

hero member

Activity: 826

Merit: 504

Quote from: valiron on September 27, 2014, 05:28:41 PM

Quote from: awesome31312 on September 27, 2014, 05:23:01 PM

Quote from: valiron on September 27, 2014, 05:08:31 PM

Quote from: Whtwabbit on September 26, 2014, 12:33:35 AM

I recently had a brain tumor removed and I had my right side Balance hearing mechanics removed, I am applying for disability until i recover.

Filling out the form I came across the question "Do you own any bitcoin or cryptocurrency"

Comments?

Answer none since your brainwallet was damaged. It may recover in the future Grin

That was very clever, made me laugh

It is funny but serious. Ownership can only be defined as "knowing your private key". Sometimes I forget things. Sometimes, later on, I remember them again. Nobody can blame you for that. Grin

Conveniently selective memory

valiron

sr. member

Activity: 311

Merit: 250

Quote from: awesome31312 on September 27, 2014, 05:23:01 PM

Quote from: valiron on September 27, 2014, 05:08:31 PM

Quote from: Whtwabbit on September 26, 2014, 12:33:35 AM

I recently had a brain tumor removed and I had my right side Balance hearing mechanics removed, I am applying for disability until i recover.

Filling out the form I came across the question "Do you own any bitcoin or cryptocurrency"

Comments?

Answer none since your brainwallet was damaged. It may recover in the future Grin

That was very clever, made me laugh

It is funny but serious. Ownership can only be defined as "knowing your private key". Sometimes I forget things. Sometimes, later on, I remember them again. Nobody can blame you for that. Grin

awesome31312

hero member

Activity: 826

Merit: 504

Quote from: valiron on September 27, 2014, 05:08:31 PM

Quote from: Whtwabbit on September 26, 2014, 12:33:35 AM

I recently had a brain tumor removed and I had my right side Balance hearing mechanics removed, I am applying for disability until i recover.

Filling out the form I came across the question "Do you own any bitcoin or cryptocurrency"

Comments?

Answer none since your brainwallet was damaged. It may recover in the future Grin

That was very clever, made me laugh

haploid23

legendary

Activity: 812

Merit: 1002

These types of forms are not meant to detail out all the technicalities. They're not going to fully define what "ownership" actually means when it comes to crypto. As long as you understand what they're trying to get at, that's all that matters.

Just say the boating accident, as always Grin

valiron

sr. member

Activity: 311

Merit: 250

Quote from: Whtwabbit on September 26, 2014, 12:33:35 AM

I recently had a brain tumor removed and I had my right side Balance hearing mechanics removed, I am applying for disability until i recover.

Filling out the form I came across the question "Do you own any bitcoin or cryptocurrency"

Comments?

Answer none since your brainwallet was damaged. It may recover in the future Grin

BittBurger

hero member

Activity: 924

Merit: 1001

Quote

They cannot find out if you have any BTC so you might as well say no.

Playing devil's advocate: What if he bought them on Coinbase. Is the simple fact that he may have "moved" them out of the coinbase system to another address, sufficient to say "I no longer have them" ?

(applies only to USA people of course)

-B-

l3sny

hero member

Activity: 859

Merit: 1000

I would answer: what is bitcoin? Wink

fonenumba

full member

Activity: 411

Merit: 100

Quote from: phillipsjk on September 27, 2014, 10:27:32 AM

Quote from: Bitcoinpro on September 27, 2014, 02:30:08 AM

http://www.humanservices.gov.au/customer/forms/sa369

page 15/18 and they say Cyber currency can't even get that right

Thank you for that. The actual question:

Quote from: Income and assets form

Do you (and/or your partner) have any other assets (in or
outside Australia) that you have not already advised us
about on this form?
Include
taxi plates, time shares, racehorses, greyhounds,
travellers cheques, cyber currency (e.g. bitcoin),
collectables (e.g. stamps, coins, wine, art, antiques),
commercial fishing licences etc.
Do NOT include
an account used exclusively for funding
from the National Disability Insurance Scheme.
No [ ] Go to next question
Yes [ ] Give details below

Description of asset
Current market value
Amount owed
Currency if not AUD
Your share %
Partner’s share %

Seems straight-forward to me: estimate the value of your Bitcoin holdings in AUD. The "Amount owed" would be $0, and leave "Currency if not AUD" blank (since your estimate is in AUD).

They may re-evaluate your eligibility if it hits the news that the price of Bitcoin has reached the moon though.

The "control" thing brought up earlier may be important. If you have your Bitcoin held on an exchange, you don't control it. If the price goes up too fast, your exchange may be "hacked".

IMO this is evidence that the australian government is not launching some crusade to try to "kill" bitcoin but is rather trying to make sure that people who are applying for welfare actually qualify for welfare as you do not qualify if you have over 'x' AUD$ in assets.

I think the control issue is merely a technicality. If you are the lawful owner of an account on an exchange then you would own any bitcoin that is held by an exchange for that account, up until the point that the exchange starts to deny withdrawal requests for bitcoin.

Quote

Edit: I am not sure how I would answer that question for unappraised collectibles Tongue

If you have any collectibles you probably do not qualify for welfare. You can generally only have very few assets to qualify for welfare and any collectible is almost always worth something

inBitweTrust

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Activity: 658

Merit: 501

Quote from: SHA255 on September 27, 2014, 02:13:46 PM

Quote from: franky1 on September 27, 2014, 10:26:40 AM

2. the whole word "ownership" is a grey area.

It isn't to me

Quote from: franky1 on September 27, 2014, 10:26:40 AM

such as a house, do you own a house, or does the mortgage company..

You do. The mortgage company has a lien on the property for the amount of the mortgage however you are personally liable if anything happens on the property (for example if someone gets hurt in your house).

Quote from: franky1 on September 27, 2014, 10:26:40 AM

what about the bank balance sitting in a bank account and your access to it is just a plastic card with a pin number.

You own this. It is your property

Clarify this for me please....

Are you suggesting that we own this property and governments are committing theft against us when they collect taxes or freeze our funds?

Or do we not own this property but are merely custodians with obligations to our feudal lords under a "social contract" that we are forced to agree to whether or not we vote?

Thank You.

SHA255

member

Activity: 72

Merit: 10

Quote from: franky1 on September 27, 2014, 10:26:40 AM

anyone writing waffle about how no one owns bitcoins and that they belong on the blockchain, blah blah waffle waffle..

a few things to point out.
1. by sounding smart the authorities will perceive that as you have intimate knowledge of bitcoins. thus start investigating your finances.

They would likely investigate every applicants finances, at least those who would otherwise qualify to have a legit disability

Quote from: franky1 on September 27, 2014, 10:26:40 AM

2. the whole word "ownership" is a grey area.

It isn't to me

Quote from: franky1 on September 27, 2014, 10:26:40 AM

such as a house, do you own a house, or does the mortgage company..

You do. The mortgage company has a lien on the property for the amount of the mortgage however you are personally liable if anything happens on the property (for example if someone gets hurt in your house).

Quote from: franky1 on September 27, 2014, 10:26:40 AM

what about the bank balance sitting in a bank account and your access to it is just a plastic card with a pin number.

You own this. It is your property

Quote from: franky1 on September 27, 2014, 10:26:40 AM

3. if you have ever linked your bank account to a bitcoin exchange (mtgox/coinbase/bitstamp, etc) you might aswell tick yes, as they can find these things out. especially how much you deposited into an exchange and using the average price of that deposit day, they can estimate holdings. even if you no longer have them.

You really should not lie in the first place. If you are caught lying then you would have a serious risk of going to jail as you generally have to affirm under penalty of perjury that the information provided is correct.

phillipsjk

legendary

Activity: 1008

Merit: 1001

Let the chips fall where they may.

Quote from: Bitcoinpro on September 27, 2014, 02:30:08 AM

http://www.humanservices.gov.au/customer/forms/sa369

page 15/18 and they say Cyber currency can't even get that right

Thank you for that. The actual question:

Quote from: Income and assets form

Do you (and/or your partner) have any other assets (in or
outside Australia) that you have not already advised us
about on this form?
Include
taxi plates, time shares, racehorses, greyhounds,
travellers cheques, cyber currency (e.g. bitcoin),
collectables (e.g. stamps, coins, wine, art, antiques),
commercial fishing licences etc.
Do NOT include
an account used exclusively for funding
from the National Disability Insurance Scheme.
No [ ] Go to next question
Yes [ ] Give details below

Description of asset
Current market value
Amount owed
Currency if not AUD
Your share %
Partner’s share %

Seems straight-forward to me: estimate the value of your Bitcoin holdings in AUD. The "Amount owed" would be $0, and leave "Currency if not AUD" blank (since your estimate is in AUD).

They may re-evaluate your eligibility if it hits the news that the price of Bitcoin has reached the moon though.

The "control" thing brought up earlier may be important. If you have your Bitcoin held on an exchange, you don't control it. If the price goes up too fast, your exchange may be "hacked".

Edit: I am not sure how I would answer that question for unappraised collectibles Tongue

franky1

legendary

Activity: 4410

Merit: 4788

anyone writing waffle about how no one owns bitcoins and that they belong on the blockchain, blah blah waffle waffle..

a few things to point out.
1. by sounding smart the authorities will perceive that as you have intimate knowledge of bitcoins. thus start investigating your finances.

2. the whole word "ownership" is a grey area. such as a house, do you own a house, or does the mortgage company.. what about the bank balance sitting in a bank account and your access to it is just a plastic card with a pin number.

3. if you have ever linked your bank account to a bitcoin exchange (mtgox/coinbase/bitstamp, etc) you might aswell tick yes, as they can find these things out. especially how much you deposited into an exchange and using the average price of that deposit day, they can estimate holdings. even if you no longer have them.

inBitweTrust

hero member

Activity: 658

Merit: 501

Quote from: goose20 on September 27, 2014, 08:29:22 AM

If we all hid our wealth... well this great country we call Australia would not stay great for very long.

We support Australians and have solidarity with you and your health but have no obligation to support the corrupt fictitious entity you call "Australia". Australia has repeatedly betrayed its people and we have no respect for its authority and neither should you.

Your patriotism towards your home country isn't going to be enough to save her as she is designed to fail and the only question now is how long will it take for that fetid carcass to decompose.

Jamie_Boulder

sr. member

Activity: 378

Merit: 250

First of all I'm sorry to hear about your brain tumor.

Second of all; that's really interesting! I wonder what the consequences of answering "Yes I own 1000 Bitcoins" would be (big tax bill in the mail?)

herzmeister

legendary

Activity: 1764

Merit: 1007

1. Convert all your bitcoins into something else
2. [X] No
3. Convert back to bitcoins
4. Huh

5. Profit! Cool

Clear conscience and all.

Topic: Australian Govt. form asks if I own any Bitcoin of Cryptocurrency - page 3. (Read 12359 times)