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Topic: ayn rand - page 2. (Read 3616 times)

legendary
Activity: 3038
Merit: 1032
RIP Mommy
July 28, 2012, 01:01:46 PM
#28
Apple offers education discounts. Is that subsidized?
I've never heard of that. Do you have a link?

LOL

If you didn't keep this forum alive with donations I'd LMGTFY you...

http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/findyourschool
Cool. But what does this have to do with the OP?

In real life, amazingly incredible machines are built by huge government run or at least subsidized enterprises. I didn't see any government try to take Steve Jobs' work away from him because it wasn't that amazing.
hero member
Activity: 812
Merit: 1000
July 28, 2012, 12:18:35 PM
#27
btw, bitcoin is unbridled capitalism, that's why I'm here... why are you lefties here?

To show that unbridled capitalism in world of 7 million is the fastrack to picking the lowest hanging fruit until there are no more fruit to pick. The free market is the sum of all market participants, each with their own agendas, many, if not most, completely ignorant of what they're doing.
Bitcoin is not unbridled capitalism. Try running Bitcoin without the internet.

But my reply wasn't to make a statement about Bitcoin. It was a reply to the statement made that implied unbridled capitalism was desirable.
donator
Activity: 1736
Merit: 1010
Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.
July 28, 2012, 10:10:52 AM
#26
I just find Rand's characters so endearing. It is so easy to feel their emotional journeys. We are so lucky to have had a writer with such a boundless understanding of the human condition. Such thoughtful lovers reveal what a romantic woman Rand must have been. The way she nurtures children to grow up to become people we can admire barely gives you a glimpse at her depth. Her love of animals will just make you weep with joy. Who has dry eyes at the end of her stories? And funny? Her timeless wit will have you rolling with laughter. I highly recommend an Ayn Rand film for a first date.
hero member
Activity: 938
Merit: 1002
July 28, 2012, 09:09:03 AM
#25
she understood the depth of Marx more than he did himself.

That may very well be right if we are talking about people and personalities. But even though my views are closer to hers, I would label Marx as an important philosopher and Rand a mediocre writer. I hope it makes sense. I acknowledge that she was onto something but there is a long way to go for it to become a sound philosophy.
hero member
Activity: 602
Merit: 513
GLBSE Support [email protected]
July 28, 2012, 08:22:04 AM
#24
On the one hand there is a quite good storytelling skill, with mastery of the hero with a thousand faces as well as emphatic developement. On the other hand there is a very strong ugliness of spirit, appeal to man's (and woman, everyone is shit) baser instincts and social theories that generally only hold up to a mild breeze..

Disclaimer: I haven't done any research on Rand, below is merely what I get from reading some of her books a long time ago.

She has terrible writing skills, the books are filled with repetitive arguments which lack subtlety and philosophical insight, so far that I'm sure she didn't have enough depth to understand where Marx was coming from, which made her get stuck in the conventional moral dichotomy.

Having said that, I almost fully agree with her central point in Atlas Shrugged. The problem is, when faced with the evident challenge, her heroes would either melt away or turn to abusing the abusers, in effect becoming more like them. Which is also what I see in the real world. The reasons for optimism do not stand out in the book and the solution it alludes to isn't actually there. Essentially, the heroes all died and went to capitalist heaven, which is what will happen to all people who empathize with her heroes (including me). Either that, or the message is "hang in there bro"? Wink


I'll tell you where Marx came from, a wealthy family who married aristocracy, watched his family live in squalor, poverty and starvation (some of whom died as a result) and refused to work A SINGLE DAY IN HIS LIFE, and wrote a book about how unfair it was that other people who worked should share their hard earned gains with the likes of him.

His entire philosophy is anti-human, anything he didn't like he decided should be removed, family didn't like..BOOM, get rid of it.

Rand grew up and studied lived in the Soviet Union (before Stalin got ahold of the reigns and the shit REALLY hit the fan), she understood the depth of Marx more than he did himself.
hero member
Activity: 938
Merit: 1002
July 28, 2012, 07:57:51 AM
#23
On the one hand there is a quite good storytelling skill, with mastery of the hero with a thousand faces as well as emphatic developement. On the other hand there is a very strong ugliness of spirit, appeal to man's (and woman, everyone is shit) baser instincts and social theories that generally only hold up to a mild breeze..

Disclaimer: I haven't done any research on Rand, below is merely what I get from reading some of her books a long time ago.

She has terrible writing skills, the books are filled with repetitive arguments which lack subtlety and philosophical insight, so far that I'm sure she didn't have enough depth to understand where Marx was coming from, which made her get stuck in the conventional moral dichotomy.

Having said that, I almost fully agree with her central point in Atlas Shrugged. The problem is, when faced with the evident challenge, her heroes would either melt away or turn to abusing the abusers, in effect becoming more like them. Which is also what I see in the real world. The reasons for optimism do not stand out in the book and the solution it alludes to isn't actually there. Essentially, the heroes all died and went to capitalist heaven, which is what will happen to all people who empathize with her heroes (including me). Either that, or the message is "hang in there bro"? Wink
hero member
Activity: 602
Merit: 513
GLBSE Support [email protected]
July 28, 2012, 07:53:48 AM
#22
http://xkcd.com/1049/

my only comment to ayn rand threads, read the mouse-over.

Never in the book(Atlas shrugged) does it say be an asshole to people, simple that people shouldn't be compelled to be nice and share against their will, plenty of room to be charitable for those with a heart.
donator
Activity: 1736
Merit: 1010
Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.
July 28, 2012, 07:11:48 AM
#21
Apple offers education discounts. Is that subsidized?
I've never heard of that. Do you have a link?

LOL

If you didn't keep this forum alive with donations I'd LMGTFY you...

http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/findyourschool
Cool. But what does this have to do with the OP?
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM
July 28, 2012, 05:39:13 AM
#20
http://xkcd.com/1049/

my only comment to ayn rand threads, read the mouse-over.

Yup. She had everything right, except the solution.
legendary
Activity: 1050
Merit: 1000
You are WRONG!
July 28, 2012, 05:36:01 AM
#19
http://xkcd.com/1049/

my only comment to ayn rand threads, read the mouse-over.
hero member
Activity: 602
Merit: 513
GLBSE Support [email protected]
July 28, 2012, 03:20:42 AM
#18
I thought Atlas was an interesting story. But she likes to exhault the virtuous side of the guilded age wealthy elites while glossing over the awful outcomes it brought most Americans. She has to invent greedy government agencies and forget about the profound greed that brought down the markets in the 20's. I think "There will be blood" is a better look into the minds of such barrons.

I'm sorry but she didn't have to invent these agencies, she grew up in the SovietUnion and knew full well what the application of communism was, besides today do you not see Atlas shrugged playing out in slow motion?
legendary
Activity: 3038
Merit: 1032
RIP Mommy
July 28, 2012, 01:41:28 AM
#17
Apple offers education discounts. Is that subsidized?
I've never heard of that. Do you have a link?

LOL

If you didn't keep this forum alive with donations I'd LMGTFY you...

http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/findyourschool
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM
July 28, 2012, 12:44:31 AM
#16
Bitcoin is not unbridled capitalism. Try running Bitcoin without the internet.

Which is why getting a decentralized mesh network up and running is (or should be) a priority. At least for some protocols, like Bitcoin's.
donator
Activity: 1736
Merit: 1010
Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.
July 28, 2012, 12:34:04 AM
#15
btw, bitcoin is unbridled capitalism, that's why I'm here... why are you lefties here?

To show that unbridled capitalism in world of 7 million is the fastrack to picking the lowest hanging fruit until there are no more fruit to pick. The free market is the sum of all market participants, each with their own agendas, many, if not most, completely ignorant of what they're doing.
Bitcoin is not unbridled capitalism. Try running Bitcoin without the internet.
hero member
Activity: 812
Merit: 1000
July 27, 2012, 11:12:25 PM
#14
btw, bitcoin is unbridled capitalism, that's why I'm here... why are you lefties here?

To show that unbridled capitalism in world of 7 million is the fastrack to picking the lowest hanging fruit until there are no more fruit to pick. The free market is the sum of all market participants, each with their own agendas, many, if not most, completely ignorant of what they're doing.
hero member
Activity: 812
Merit: 1000
July 27, 2012, 11:09:13 PM
#13
You can say that communism was implemented imperfectly, and I say that capitilism now is implemented imperfectly (the imperfection is central banking, minimum wage, and unions), but look at the result of an imperfect communism vs an imperfect capitalism - I'd rather be poor in South Korea than North Korea (where I may actually starve to death!). 
If you want to compare communism and capitalism, North Korea would be best compared to many African nations. Rand uses many fallacious arguments to make her points. That's fine for a fiction writer, but just don't take her seriously. Like I said, the magic motor she uses to drive her point is a gimmick like every other fantasy writer uses. In real life, amazingly incredible machines are built by huge government run or at least subsidized enterprises. I didn't see any government try to take Steve Jobs' work away from him because it wasn't that amazing. OTOH, I don't see individuals building space telescopes or super-colliders either and those are pretty amazing.

Great video. Turn the volume up: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rXtG3vfAlA
donator
Activity: 1736
Merit: 1010
Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.
July 27, 2012, 10:53:00 PM
#12
Apple offers education discounts. Is that subsidized?
I've never heard of that. Do you have a link?
legendary
Activity: 3038
Merit: 1032
RIP Mommy
July 27, 2012, 04:22:21 PM
#11
Apple offers education discounts. Is that subsidized?
donator
Activity: 1736
Merit: 1010
Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.
July 27, 2012, 02:28:09 PM
#10
You can say that communism was implemented imperfectly, and I say that capitilism now is implemented imperfectly (the imperfection is central banking, minimum wage, and unions), but look at the result of an imperfect communism vs an imperfect capitalism - I'd rather be poor in South Korea than North Korea (where I may actually starve to death!). 
If you want to compare communism and capitalism, North Korea would be best compared to many African nations. Rand uses many fallacious arguments to make her points. That's fine for a fiction writer, but just don't take her seriously. Like I said, the magic motor she uses to drive her point is a gimmick like every other fantasy writer uses. In real life, amazingly incredible machines are built by huge government run or at least subsidized enterprises. I didn't see any government try to take Steve Jobs' work away from him because it wasn't that amazing. OTOH, I don't see individuals building space telescopes or super-colliders either and those are pretty amazing.
legendary
Activity: 2058
Merit: 1005
this space intentionally left blank
July 27, 2012, 12:10:31 PM
#9
don't spoil it for me, it's the next book on my shelf.
still, subbed for future discussion^^
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