Bad days ahead for the European single currency - page 2.

Amph

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Quote from: eerygarden on July 06, 2015, 01:09:49 PM

Quote from: Amph on July 06, 2015, 03:15:48 AM

well not really, the fault it is not with the ECB or europe zone, but with greece only, so they are the dead weight here and removing the diseased part of the european would only bring benefit to the euro union, since they do not need to pay loan to a country that can't pay it back ever

Is my understanding of things incorrect? Isn't it true that no country will ever be able to pay all of its debts back? Ever!

well yes, but i was talking about another type, of loan, about the loan that it was lended to save their ass, not about the standard loan that every country of the europe get, because of the vicious circle that is sustaining the whole fiat ecosystem

Quote from: bryant.coleman on July 06, 2015, 02:08:58 PM

Quote from: Amph on July 06, 2015, 11:55:24 AM

well i'm not talking about italy and spain, but especially romania and bulgaria, the countries that you mentioned in the other quote

Romania and Bulgaria are two of the most corrupt and crime-ridden nations in the European continent. I agree that the GDP is growing in these nations. But that is solely due to the European Union subsidies and grants. And these two countries don't have the resources to sustain the GDP growth. What happened in Greece will occur in Romania and Bulgaria as well. But in their case, the effects will be even worse. Grin

i don't know, guessing is good and all but the fact is that greece has done something very wrong compared to other, to be in this condition, and they were in a bad situation since 2004 at least which is not too far away from their entry into Europe(2002)

they did a mistake in "recruiting" Greece, on the other hand italy and spain were not in a bad shape before the euro union, i'm not sure about spain, but seeing how i live in italy i'm sure about it

scarsbergholden

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So it looks like the Greece drama is nothing compare what is happening in china with their stock market and now letting customers buy stock on margin, here is little more about it http://money.cnn.com/2015/07/06/investing/stocks-market-china-greece/index.html?iid=hp-toplead-dom

bryant.coleman

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Quote from: Amph on July 06, 2015, 11:55:24 AM

well i'm not talking about italy and spain, but especially romania and bulgaria, the countries that you mentioned in the other quote

Romania and Bulgaria are two of the most corrupt and crime-ridden nations in the European continent. I agree that the GDP is growing in these nations. But that is solely due to the European Union subsidies and grants. And these two countries don't have the resources to sustain the GDP growth. What happened in Greece will occur in Romania and Bulgaria as well. But in their case, the effects will be even worse. Grin

sgk

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!! HODL !!

Quote from: CoinBateman on July 05, 2015, 11:03:37 PM

Quote from: Bit_Happy on July 05, 2015, 10:54:02 PM

Quote from: CoinBateman on July 05, 2015, 10:14:08 PM

How did Greece arrive at this ridiculous situation in the first place?

Overly generous benefits for Gov't workers (including pensions) is a major factor in Greece running up huge debts.

What about corruption at the highest levels?

If corruption at highest levels alone causes economic meltdown, several countries will cease to exist before Greece goes default Cheesy

DirtyUniverse

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All I want is a new CLEAN page for just to live!

how greece mini economy affect bitcoin or europe? i really dont understand. can someone explain for me?

eerygarden

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Quote from: VeritasSapere on July 06, 2015, 01:47:07 PM

Quote from: eerygarden on July 06, 2015, 01:09:49 PM

Quote from: Amph on July 06, 2015, 03:15:48 AM

well not really, the fault it is not with the ECB or europe zone, but with greece only, so they are the dead weight here and removing the diseased part of the european would only bring benefit to the euro union, since they do not need to pay loan to a country that can't pay it back ever

Is my understanding of things incorrect? Isn't it true that no country will ever be able to pay all of its debts back? Ever!

That is correct, that seems to be how most macro economic systems work presently, all fiat currency is based on debt with the country and its people as the collateral. This is by design which is one of the reasons I think these fiat currencies are doomed to fail eventually, especially now that feasible alternative asset based currencies exists. Watching and waiting to see this house of cards fall so that we can finally separate the power over monetary policy from the state like we once did with church and state.

The separation of church and state, that would be an interesting topic to visit. Do you have anything to recommend, either video or literature? Although with the amount of free time which I have I probably have a preference on video.

VeritasSapere

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Quote from: eerygarden on July 06, 2015, 01:09:49 PM

Quote from: Amph on July 06, 2015, 03:15:48 AM

well not really, the fault it is not with the ECB or europe zone, but with greece only, so they are the dead weight here and removing the diseased part of the european would only bring benefit to the euro union, since they do not need to pay loan to a country that can't pay it back ever

Is my understanding of things incorrect? Isn't it true that no country will ever be able to pay all of its debts back? Ever!

That is correct, that seems to be how most macro economic systems work presently, all fiat currency is based on debt with the country and its people as the collateral. This is by design which is one of the reasons I think these fiat currencies are doomed to fail eventually, especially now that feasible alternative asset based currencies exists. Watching and waiting to see this house of cards fall so that we can finally separate the power over monetary policy from the state like we once did with church and state.

eerygarden

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Quote from: Amph on July 06, 2015, 03:15:48 AM

well not really, the fault it is not with the ECB or europe zone, but with greece only, so they are the dead weight here and removing the diseased part of the european would only bring benefit to the euro union, since they do not need to pay loan to a country that can't pay it back ever

Is my understanding of things incorrect? Isn't it true that no country will ever be able to pay all of its debts back? Ever!

greBit

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Quote from: Zorrocoin on July 06, 2015, 10:15:38 AM

Quote from: countryfree on July 05, 2015, 02:10:07 PM

Everybody talks about Greece, and there are plenty other topics on this board, but only a few millions people are concerned. So let's not talk about Greece.

I want to raise the bigger issue here, which is the European single currency. Several hundreds millions of people are using it every day, and it's very, very likely that the European currency will go down against the US dollar, the Swiss Franc and BTC. Do you share my concern?

Thank you . Some one had to say it. Enough about greece ya'll. coming to the point, The Euro seems to be doing alright. I would like bitcoin to become some sort of unofficial world currency to be used all across the globe. I don't think there would be anything wrong with a one world currency as long as it was decentralized.

But a one world currency which is not controlled or authorized by a committee could be a good and a bad thing altogether. It all depends on the situations of all the countries in that phase, if those countries are in debt, they are poor and they cannot even afford btc, how can they afford to adopt it? Especially after the increase in price just after the mass adoption btc might phase. Its a risky move.

Amph

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Quote from: bryant.coleman on July 06, 2015, 09:14:25 AM

Quote from: Amph on July 06, 2015, 07:51:37 AM

Those other country can handle their loss well, otherwise one can not explain how they are in a better position than greece now, having few money isn't euqal to a bad condition, is the difference between the income and expenditure that counts and apparently greece is not good at it

Dude, you are wrong there. Apart from a few wealthy nations such as France, Germany, the United Kingdom, the Netherlands, and Belgium, most of the other European Union members are in dire economic straits. Do you think that Italy, Spain and Portugal are performing well right now? Greece was just the tip of the iceberg.

well i'm not talking about italy and spain, but especially romania and bulgaria, the countries that you mentioned in the other quote

greece was doing really bad even before she become a part of the europe zone, their debts were dragged off for so long that is not even funny to remember

scarsbergholden

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everyone in the world should be scare for every currency handle by the governments because they could to what they want at any time, wake up tomorrow and find banks close and you can only withdraw 60 bucks from the ATM crazy system we have let this banks and governments put us into.

Zorrocoin

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Quote from: countryfree on July 05, 2015, 02:10:07 PM

Everybody talks about Greece, and there are plenty other topics on this board, but only a few millions people are concerned. So let's not talk about Greece.

I want to raise the bigger issue here, which is the European single currency. Several hundreds millions of people are using it every day, and it's very, very likely that the European currency will go down against the US dollar, the Swiss Franc and BTC. Do you share my concern?

Thank you . Some one had to say it. Enough about greece ya'll. coming to the point, The Euro seems to be doing alright. I would like bitcoin to become some sort of unofficial world currency to be used all across the globe. I don't think there would be anything wrong with a one world currency as long as it was decentralized.

HeroCat

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Why EUR must go down against USD ? Problems in Greece is problems in only one country and not more Grin

EUR is stable currrency in Europe Wink

bryant.coleman

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Quote from: Amph on July 06, 2015, 07:51:37 AM

Those other country can handle their loss well, otherwise one can not explain how they are in a better position than greece now, having few money isn't euqal to a bad condition, is the difference between the income and expenditure that counts and apparently greece is not good at it

Dude, you are wrong there. Apart from a few wealthy nations such as France, Germany, the United Kingdom, the Netherlands, and Belgium, most of the other European Union members are in dire economic straits. Do you think that Italy, Spain and Portugal are performing well right now? Greece was just the tip of the iceberg.

Amph

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Quote from: bryant.coleman on July 06, 2015, 06:01:21 AM

Quote from: Amph on July 06, 2015, 03:15:48 AM

weak country like greece should not have entered the EU ever, they were part of the reason, why the euro has lost it's power

The European Union was a politically based project. Economy was never going to be a major criterion. If economy was the main criteria, then how could you explain the inclusion of the Eastern bloc members such as Bulgaria and Romania, whose economies are even worse when compared to the Greek one?

those other country can handle their loss well, otherwise one can not explain how they are in a better position than greece now, having few money isn't euqal to a bad condition, is the difference between the income and expenditure that counts and apparently greece is not good at it

Xialla

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/dev/null

Quote from: bryant.coleman on July 06, 2015, 06:01:21 AM

Quote from: Amph on July 06, 2015, 03:15:48 AM

weak country like greece should not have entered the EU ever, they were part of the reason, why the euro has lost it's power

The European Union was a politically based project. Economy was never going to be a major criterion. If economy was the main criteria, then how could you explain the inclusion of the Eastern bloc members such as Bulgaria and Romania, whose economies are even worse when compared to the Greek one?

you are completely right and this is actually the reason, why something like Euro can never works and just showing huge differences between countries and purchasing power parity.

bryant.coleman

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Quote from: Amph on July 06, 2015, 03:15:48 AM

weak country like greece should not have entered the EU ever, they were part of the reason, why the euro has lost it's power

The European Union was a politically based project. Economy was never going to be a major criterion. If economy was the main criteria, then how could you explain the inclusion of the Eastern bloc members such as Bulgaria and Romania, whose economies are even worse when compared to the Greek one?

acquafredda

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Quote from: CoinBateman on July 05, 2015, 11:03:37 PM

Quote from: Bit_Happy on July 05, 2015, 10:54:02 PM

Quote from: CoinBateman on July 05, 2015, 10:14:08 PM

How did Greece arrive at this ridiculous situation in the first place?

Overly generous benefits for Gov't workers (including pensions) is a major factor in Greece running up huge debts.

What about corruption at the highest levels?

You guys still believe this?

Do you want some data?

Amph

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Quote from: AtheistAKASaneBrain on July 05, 2015, 02:40:07 PM

Quote from: ajareselde on July 05, 2015, 02:27:40 PM

Correct me if i'm wrong, but shouldn't it do exactly the opposite?
Given the fact that EU is now "loosing" Greece, which is nothing but a dead weight; shouldn't the EUR get stronger, since the overall economy of EU will be stronger w/o them. Seams logical,right?

cheers

Not really, it's a double edged sword. Sure, you get said "dead weight" but your reputation as an institution whose ultimate goal is a solid unity of nations it basically means you fucked up on this core principle. And bad reputation always means bad news economically. We'll see what happens, it seems the NO is winning.

well not really, the fault it is not with the ECB or europe zone, but with greece only, so they are the dead weight here and removing the diseased part of the european would only bring benefit to the euro union, since they do not need to pay loan to a country that can't pay it back ever

weak country like greece should not have entered the EU ever, they were part of the reason, why the euro has lost it's power

HarHarHar9965

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Quote from: chennan on July 05, 2015, 11:45:55 PM

Quote from: countryfree on July 05, 2015, 08:22:41 PM

Quote from: acquafredda on July 05, 2015, 03:35:58 PM

Quote from: Netnox on July 05, 2015, 03:08:47 PM

Soon usd - eur parity and from there hell will break loose for eur.

Do you think so?
It sounds too early for that only for news from greece.
Remember the greek economy is only the 2% of the whole EU

This isn't the issue. The problem is that the Greeks have said with the referendum that they don't want to pay their debts. So the question is who pay? Will the other European countries pay in place of the Greeks, writing it down at a huge loss, or will the ECB simple print more money, instantly pushing the € down against all other currencies?

The Greece voted for no and don't want to pay the debt, leave European. The priority for them is to pay the debt and try to find a way to get money to pay for them. How come do they still care about the pension cut and tax increases? They still care about their personal income. It is ridiculous. If one family run into deep debt, what they should do? The famility member should try to earn enough money and spend less to pay the debt firstly. How could they keep the moeny for themselft?

But what do they mean by 'don't want to pay the debt?' Debts must be paid regardless, they don't have any option regarding that, do they? Leave European? Sure, they don't want you around either. Their reputation has been screwed either way. The people of Greece would of course root to protect their money as it is their own money which they earned, they are not thinking like family. Everybody is trying to save their own ass.

Topic: Bad days ahead for the European single currency - page 2. (Read 2821 times)