Topic: Be careful what you wish for, it might happen (Read 896 times)

Decentralization can give more to the world. See what is inside the store.

I think it is just the start of decentralization. Many new things are on the way.

Encouraging people is certainly not easy because it is certain that understanding is needed so that explanations can reach them.
but actually bitcoin is widely known and explanations can use existing media to make it more understandable and get to the point.

That's right, my friend, in time bitcoin will become a part of life that continues to advance with renewable technology. because all will not be able to avoid progress which includes the existence of bitcoin.
All analysis can do the same as economists but we can filter which ones are true or not, because all are clearly visible and real.

the question of buying is clear in a situation like this is indeed the best time to buy but it must be remembered that the funds you save will be embedded long because of a very deep correction, and must be prepared for this.

I just wonder what you mean by economists that were wrong ? You mean by saying Bitcoin is highly risk and volatile ? They are right no ?

At some point, Bitcoin will not only be a fundamental part of people's lives, but many will wonder how they were able to listen and pay attention to all those economists who were so wrong at all times, how they allowed themselves to be manipulated for those who claimed to know a lot about... And to avoid these things, I think the fundamental thing now is to buy so that those who have always dreamed can be fulfilled.

To be honest I too encourage the use of bitcoin but am not sure how to deal with certain people with the wrong mindset without any centralisation. Imo, both the centralised and decentralised world should move parallel.

You have a point, but keep in mind even if bitcoin achieved the desired decentralization (what is almost sure to not happen), the main prejudiced ones would be the politicians and not the poor people of the country. The bigger portion of taxes and fees government charges you is going to maintain the public machine working, that is mainly composed by spots which exist and are created to employ friends and supporters of the political ruling party and by public career employees, which have a lot of benefits and stability when compared to the autonomous workers from the private sector, for an example.

Moreover, a larger portion of public funds are used to pay for politics' campaigns than it's used to pay for basic sanitation in some countries. With or without taxes people in need aren't being assisted anyway. It's not bitcoin and autonomous workers who should carry this burden on their back.

people who protest for cryptocurrency and especially Bitcoin is people who know the value of peso currency we know from The origin that government cannot do anything concerning cryptocurrency uses the only thing they can do is that they will stumble the name of cryptocurrency so that is the name will not have value any longer so who I believe that people is wise enough to notice why cryptocurrency value is regarded so crypto is life and the crypto is money

True af, they might also be shouting for something they dont really understand. Just having no rules wont better their position. We need some kind of balance indeed, and im fully convinced that people are the strongest when they actually work together, not if we just abolish everything just for the sake of decentralization. This is the trap many people fall into, just because one thing is successful, theyre trying to apply its properties to everything, even tho it may not be fitting.

I think if we can improve the financial system and make it sane again, much of the political radicality will be reduced, as people will be more busy with their lifes again and building something nice, because it will actually be possible for many people again. Everything tends to get politicized when people are struggling with their well being, we saw this in the 30s in europe etc. Thats why im also deeply disappointed by the economists in charge, they know this and yet just ignore it for whatever reason. I would expect them to take some responsibility, as theyre the ones that can prevent a lot of suffering.

But i must also say the state isn’t really helping here, they just use every crisis for themselves and try to paint anyone who opens their mouth in a bad light. This is actually strengthening the points the people who want to abolish the government make. They’re just making it worse, instead of bringing people together again.

I fully agree !

My point is I think a lot of people don’t realize this. I see a lot of protests against governments for the sake of protest. Bitcoin is also used a lot as a ‘the people will take over’ argument. Biggest shouters are often the ones that depend the most on them.

No, this is not right. A completely decentralized society is an utopian dream. Going to the roots we as humans are social creatures. We need to leave in society. You can't just condemn the ones who were born with lower intelligence or who are handicaped in any way. That is why we need to pay taxes  --> to maintain somehow of an equilibrium in the society + fund public property and services like police, firemen, doctors, etc.

Polarization of society classes creates conflicts, very ugly ones I might add. I think the best way is to find a balance between centralization and decentralization. The financial system is especially broken creating big problems so Bitcoin might be the solution for it, indeed.

In a crypto world you would not go through a bank account you would just use your crypto 😁

It all depends of the model that will be dominant if businesses will accept crypto or not. Currently that would be the case but that could change quickly. Basically if most economic actors decide it will be crypto, it will be crypto.

Indeed very true services would not be guaranteed anymore with a lot of consequences.

Decentralization does not guarantee that people will not pay any taxes. You cannot profit with Crypto currency and then convert that to Fiat and then spend that and not expect the tax agencies not to pick up that there are money going through your account. 

No business will allow big purchases with Crypto currencies, without some paper work that needs to be done. (Invoices / Transfer of ownership etc...) Also, if people do not pay taxes.... services cannot be rendered..... and hunger will increase... so poor people will turn to crime to survive. 

They just need their xpubs and can see all their transaction history. It would be easy for the police to get this in some way. Bitcoin is used less for criminal activity than legacy finance, there was research about this. Also they’re catching criminals all the time and confiscating their Bitcoin. There’s too many traces for criminals to be safe from law enforcement, Bitcoin is built for people not criminals.

Agree, i just don’t believe in reform inside the system itself anymore.

This could be handled in a no money printing way, if the economy would still be healthy. They could get loans or taxes from not printed money. The government can still have programs to save the economy, they just can’t do it all the time when it’s not actually necessary, as they wouldn’t be able to pay back debts anymore when they do it all the time when it’s not actually necessary. Hard money brings back the necessity to make smart decisions.

The Ledger is indeed public but first they need to link a person to the transaction. This can be rather hard if a person is managing this well. And if you leave some room to people they will use it

Regarding Monetary Policy you are fully right. At best the people performing it are making the wrong decisions and politicians just want to optimize their elected period. This should be performed by people with a different time period and only in exceptional times

Image Corona without this policy. Lots of businesses would have gone bankrupt and you would again be in the suffering story…

Bitcoins ledger is public and any transaction is saved forever. There isn’t more transparency than this. Not good to evade taxes/ criminal activities as the proof will be there forever for law enforcement. It will be hard for criminals to hide evidences, when the police will check them in person. They already have all the tools in their disposal to spy on citizens. Even networks like lightning aren’t completely private and there can still be evidence found there, if they really check criminals. Pseudonymity of Bitcoin is good to protect regular citizens right to privacy, but it won’t hide real criminal activities. Police will have enough evidence to work with, that can’t easily be destroyed. Also most Bitcoin is linked to some real id on centralized exchanges, this completely removes any privacy and is a real problem.


Let me bring in the counter argument again. Let’s evaluate monetary policy first. The end result is always printing more money and delaying problems for generations, which makes them worse, than just having solved them earlier. It never really solved a problem in the first place. Japan has delayed it’s problems from the last century till now. Now they’re bigger than ever and broken beyond repair. Europe is in the same boat now.

Who is doing the policy?
Some people in backdoors that haven’t even been elected, there’s no way to hold them accountable for anything. You can’t vote them in or out, there’s also no realistic way to go to court against them.

Are they really that capable?
I doubt it, there’s no solved problem in their track record. Their criminal record is bigger than actual work being done. Let’s not look at, if they seem knowledgeable or professional, but just at their track record in office: there’s nothing to show, except broken rules, criminal activity that isn’t punished and having made issues worse.

What is the result?
Entire governments/ corporations became dependent on printed money to pay for their expenses/ to not go bankrupt. Bailout after bailout. They’re not able to survive in the free market anymore. It’s like someone being on drugs. We left economics and entered central planning. Which every economist knows is a sin that is dangerous. You can’t heal a drug addict by giving him more drugs for generations, problems have to actually be solved.

If we keep in mind now of who is actually running monetary policy, what is safer? Putting them into a train that they can’t control themselves, but is on a safe track - or giving them a sports cars that they can drive into any direction they want, but we know they won’t follow any traffic rules when they don’t want to. Which of these two options is less likely to crash? Which of these options will be safer to the population?

Addition: States still have the ability to issue their own currencies with forced value attached to it and their own monetary policies, regardless how successful Bitcoin is. But the difference is now that they have compete with a superior form of currency. If they mess up their policies and no one wants to use their currency, it’s their own fault, not Bitcoins. In the case they want to compete with Bitcoin, you will notice that they can’t do that much different from Bitcoin in the first place. So it might be better to just stick to Bitcoin directly. If they force value to a weaker form of currency they will just trigger greshams law again, and people will hoard Bitcoin and use the weaker currency in circulation. Until thiers law comes into play and no one wants to use this currency anymore and Bitcoin becomes the medium of exchange again. This cycle repeats as long as they will introduce bad currencies. Ultimately the best form of money needs to be resistant to bad policy, that’s why no centralized currency will ever be able to outperform a decentralized one. Just sticking to Bitcoin might be the most efficient approach.
 

You can have taxes in a decentralized financial society. The government would compel you to pay taxes regardless if they have control over your finances or not. They'd just show up to your front doorstep with a gun and threaten you with violence or jail until you comply.

I'm not one of those "taxation is theft" type of people. The government serves the reasonable purpose of collecting taxes. Crypto might increase the burden of the government to collect taxes, but that's not something I'm concerned about. They already have immense power. Forcing them to jump through a few hoops for folks that don't willingly comply isn't the end of the world.

Wishing people gold is another alternative for someone to progress and these and other evidence to show that you really love the person that you are wishing good this is applicable or is the same thing that happen when you wish someone bad into cryptocurrency investment and if the person proceeds to win or profit in your wish automatically the person will be good with you so I have not seen anything wrong wishing somebody what is good because everybody is expecting good thing

I’m indeed biased from my side of the world. I can understand the upside in other parts of the world where it can bring more stability.

I just think it will be harder to tax as it will be harder to trace. Here in Belgium it’s almost a national sport to dodge taxes (not me 😊) so I can imagine it would be even worse.

But indeed it’s not a problem of today or tomorrow but I like to analyze future development and behaviours 😊

you are thinking too deep, too early. Who says bitcoin income is not taxed. In many countries they are taxed. Decentralization will help to make systems more efficient and more robust. It has nothing to di with taxes. Infact in long run it will help to reduce corruption, which is primarily in fiat currency. Kenya is a poor country, but you see people over there are embracing crypto at a faster pace.Its helping them to come out of their poverty