Bear market? Will NEVER HAPPEN because of tether printing.

STT

legendary

Activity: 4102

Merit: 1454

Quote from: Argoo on January 03, 2021, 03:10:59 AM

Stable coins, including tether, are very easy to destroy. For this, it is enough for states to recognize illegal the provision of their national currency with other financial assets that do not belong to this state. This is already done by the Chinese government with its yuan, including digital. If this happens, then only stable coins of states will remain in circulation.

I dont know how it'll happen but sounds quite a viable scenario, anything that rests on the goodwill of politics and large government is not something I want to be standing under when theres any upset. We haven't seen the end of volatility, I dont believe it.

bbc.reporter

legendary

Activity: 3122

Merit: 1492

Quote from: exstasie on January 02, 2021, 03:44:17 AM

Quote from: bbc.reporter on January 01, 2021, 11:09:56 PM

Does this imply that the CFTC can also charge Tether?

Yes. The CFTC hasn't expressed much interest in stablecoins but they did say this:

Quote from: bbc.reporter on January 01, 2021, 11:09:56 PM

In any case, you agreed that Tether is shady and you also know that there have been no verifiable audits, however, you say any speculations and if someone asks questions about Tether’s legality and backing is FUD?

This is ridiculous. I've explained in painful detail what is FUD and what isn't. Please stop beating a dead horse. Let it go.

Quote from: bbc.reporter on January 01, 2021, 11:09:56 PM

What would you say if Tether has been taken down?

I'd shrug. What would you say if Binance got taken down? Or if Coinbase got hacked? Or.....

I was asking if Tether was taken down and charges on it were proven, would this be the only time it will not be FUD for you? All the questions and speculations will be considered well founded?

In any case, similar to what you have told me, let us agree to disagree.

Argoo

sr. member

Activity: 2352

Merit: 245

Quote from: Tyr808 on June 25, 2018, 07:37:19 PM

Ok, prove me wrong.

Here I state that a bear market, which is a prolongued (3 years +) correction of crypto prices, will never happen reason being the occasional bursts of tether issuing which is something nobody can police.

Add to this the fact greed never dies and stockmarket doesn't provide the gains todays young people demand: kids want adrenalin and lambos not fuckin retirement plan.

Correction of the rate will occur regularly, as investors need to fix their profits and because of this, any cryptocurrency periodically drops in price.
Stable coins, including tether, are very easy to destroy. For this, it is enough for states to recognize illegal the provision of their national currency with other financial assets that do not belong to this state. This is already done by the Chinese government with its yuan, including digital. If this happens, then only stable coins of states will remain in circulation.

exstasie

legendary

Activity: 1806

Merit: 1521

Quote from: bbc.reporter on January 01, 2021, 11:09:56 PM

Does this imply that the CFTC can also charge Tether?

Yes. The CFTC hasn't expressed much interest in stablecoins but they did say this:

Quote from: bbc.reporter on January 01, 2021, 11:09:56 PM

In any case, you agreed that Tether is shady and you also know that there have been no verifiable audits, however, you say any speculations and if someone asks questions about Tether’s legality and backing is FUD?

This is ridiculous. I've explained in painful detail what is FUD and what isn't. Please stop beating a dead horse. Let it go.

Quote from: bbc.reporter on January 01, 2021, 11:09:56 PM

What would you say if Tether has been taken down?

I'd shrug. What would you say if Binance got taken down? Or if Coinbase got hacked? Or.....

bbc.reporter

legendary

Activity: 3122

Merit: 1492

Quote from: exstasie on January 01, 2021, 03:37:57 AM

Quote from: bbc.reporter on December 31, 2020, 08:50:37 PM

Quote from: exstasie on December 31, 2020, 01:40:51 AM

Quote from: bbc.reporter on December 31, 2020, 12:17:38 AM

@exstasie. However, there are no more audits proving that Tether is backed by fiat reserves.

No stablecoin has ever been audited. The most we've seen is a balance sheet attestation from Circle for USDC, which Tether also did a few years ago with Friedman LLP.

No stablecoins has been audited does not automatically imply that Tether is 100% backed by $20 billion held in a bank.

I'm not saying it does. I was just responding to the tired argument that Tether hasn't been audited. Since no stablecoin has ever been audited, that's a moot point. An audit (or lack thereof) isn't inherently what makes a stablecoin safe or risky to hold.

Quote from: bbc.reporter on December 31, 2020, 08:50:37 PM

It might also be under the authority of the SEC because USDT is a dollar derivative. Derivatives are securities.

Derivatives are secondary securities, ~95% of which do not meet the SEC's definition of a security. Those fall under the jurisdiction of the CFTC. The ~5% of derivatives the SEC regulates are "security-based swaps" which include things like stock or bond-based swaps, or credit default swaps.

The SEC said this recently regarding fiat-backed stablecoins:

Quote from: bbc.reporter on December 31, 2020, 08:50:37 PM

You can call it FUD, however, this leaves more questions and speculations without an audit.

Whatever dude, I just don't see the point in spreading so much fear, uncertainty, and doubt.

Does this imply that the CFTC can also charge Tether?

In any case, you agreed that Tether is shady and you also know that there have been no verifiable audits, however, you say any speculations and if someone asks questions about Tether’s legality and backing is FUD? What would you say if Tether has been taken down?

Similar to you, I want this pump. However, as learners and participants of the cryptospace, we should ask questions. Do you think I have been researching about Tether because I want FUD? I hold bitcoins also, however, we should not be thoughtless larpers.

sana54210

legendary

Activity: 3318

Merit: 1128

Quote from: exstasie on January 01, 2021, 03:37:57 AM

Quote from: bbc.reporter on December 31, 2020, 08:50:37 PM

You can call it FUD, however, this leaves more questions and speculations without an audit.

Whatever dude, I just don't see the point in spreading so much fear, uncertainty, and doubt.

I think you guys both could be wrong in a way. Bitcoin doesn't need to FUD or it doesn't need to be calm when it comes to Tether. I feel like the logical thing would be to use it as carefully as possible and not leave the whole future of bitcoin to it neither. Sure there is a huge deal with tether and bitcoin connection, I am not arguing against that, I also believe news about something actually helps or hurts bitcoin price more than the deal itself.

If I end up selling 1 billion dollars worth of bitcoin that might impact bitcoin price about 10% or maybe even 20% but if I write an article about how I sold all my 1 billion dollars worth of bitcoin and warn others to do the same, you will see, bitcoin could drop more than 50% very easily. That is the thing about tether that makes you guys both right and wrong, tether will not change too much no matter what, however news of it may.

thecodebear

hero member

Activity: 2240

Merit: 848

I never got what the deal is with all the tether conspiracy theories. Like, do you think they are just printing tether and handing it out to people for free?? haha. Come on get real.

I don't know exactly how tether generation works but no doubt they create more of it when people pass USD into tether. Now whether or not it is at any given time fully backed by dollars sitting in a bank somewhere is a question you can certainly ask, but the whole idea that tether props up bitcoin and is what causes price appreciation and entire bull runs is just, well, a conspiracy theory. Tether has nothing to do with bull markets or bear markets. It is just the largest of many stablecoins. Tether doesn't prop up bitcoin, and bitcoin wouldn't crash if something bad happened to tether, because the many other stablecoins would readily replace it (most large exchanges that use tether seem to have plenty of trading pairs with other stablecoins as well).

If a bear market doesn't happen in the next few years it will be because institutional investors are piling into bitcoin at a consistent rate for years to come, not because of conspiracy theories. lol

exstasie

legendary

Activity: 1806

Merit: 1521

Quote from: bbc.reporter on December 31, 2020, 08:50:37 PM

Quote from: exstasie on December 31, 2020, 01:40:51 AM

Quote from: bbc.reporter on December 31, 2020, 12:17:38 AM

@exstasie. However, there are no more audits proving that Tether is backed by fiat reserves.

No stablecoin has ever been audited. The most we've seen is a balance sheet attestation from Circle for USDC, which Tether also did a few years ago with Friedman LLP.

No stablecoins has been audited does not automatically imply that Tether is 100% backed by $20 billion held in a bank.

I'm not saying it does. I was just responding to the tired argument that Tether hasn't been audited. Since no stablecoin has ever been audited, that's a moot point. An audit (or lack thereof) isn't inherently what makes a stablecoin safe or risky to hold.

Quote from: bbc.reporter on December 31, 2020, 08:50:37 PM

It might also be under the authority of the SEC because USDT is a dollar derivative. Derivatives are securities.

Derivatives are secondary securities, ~95% of which do not meet the SEC's definition of a security. Those fall under the jurisdiction of the CFTC. The ~5% of derivatives the SEC regulates are "security-based swaps" which include things like stock or bond-based swaps, or credit default swaps.

The SEC said this recently regarding fiat-backed stablecoins:

Quote from: bbc.reporter on December 31, 2020, 08:50:37 PM

You can call it FUD, however, this leaves more questions and speculations without an audit.

Whatever dude, I just don't see the point in spreading so much fear, uncertainty, and doubt.

bbc.reporter

legendary

Activity: 3122

Merit: 1492

Quote from: exstasie on December 31, 2020, 01:40:51 AM

Quote from: bbc.reporter on December 31, 2020, 12:17:38 AM

@exstasie. However, there are no more audits proving that Tether is backed by fiat reserves.

No stablecoin has ever been audited. The most we've seen is a balance sheet attestation from Circle for USDC, which Tether also did a few years ago with Friedman LLP.

Circle's accounting firm can tell you why audits don't take place:

Quote from: bbc.reporter on December 31, 2020, 12:17:38 AM

Tether can also be charged of price manipulation if indeed billions of USDT have been printed without backing.

Now we're talking about two different things. If Tether was used to manipulate the price of BTC, that doesn't mean Tether manipulated the price of USDT. That's what matters regarding characterization of USDT as a security. If a company is manipulating the price of Bitcoin, that is within the purview of the CFTC and not the SEC, since Bitcoin is not a security.

As for the Tether printer, you're just repeating more FUD. Tongue

There is no evidence Tether issued USDT without backing. There is evidence that some issued USDT became unbacked after the Crypto Capital/Bitfinex fiasco. You may not think the distinction is important, but it is crucial to establishing whether Tether ever actually "printed" anything.

Losing control of dollars held in a bank account is a matter of third party trust gone bad. That's very different than intentionally printing unbacked tokens.

No stablecoins has been audited does not automatically imply that Tether is 100% backed by $20 billion held in a bank.

It might also be under the authority of the SEC because USDT is a dollar derivative. Derivatives are securities.

You can call it FUD, however, this leaves more questions and speculations without an audit.

Branko

sr. member

Activity: 2632

Merit: 328

Quote from: BrewMaster on December 31, 2020, 10:45:05 AM

if OP's arguments had any reality to it then price should have never dropped in first place and the bear market that he claimed "will never happen" would have never happened. but we know now that it did happen and Tether never had any effects on bitcoin price.

It didn't happen because at that period USDT was used to get USD, not BTC, thats the whole point

BrewMaster

legendary

Activity: 2128

Merit: 1293

There is trouble abrewing

those who bumped this old topic and are discussing the same stupid topic all over again are missing the fact that OP was already proven wrong 2 years ago when the bear market did happen and price of bitcoin fell from $20000 down to $3000 in the course of 2.5 years and during that time Tether printed a lot more tokens that they have ever printed specially compared to 2017 (the year bitcoin was rising).

if OP's arguments had any reality to it then price should have never dropped in first place and the bear market that he claimed "will never happen" would have never happened. but we know now that it did happen and Tether never had any effects on bitcoin price.

el kaka22

legendary

Activity: 3710

Merit: 1170

www.Crypto.Games: Multiple coins, multiple games

People keep considering that USDT is the ONLY way people could buy bitcoin, why are you wrong this much? I understand that there is 20+ billion USDT in the market, but that doesn't mean all of them ar constantly used to buy bitcoin, plus even when they do, do you know how much real money are in it as well? I can tell you, billions of dollars worth of bitcoin all bought and stored already without ever being sold.

So long story short we are talking about something much better and easier here, the real money, and this USDT deal is obviously something that impacts bitcoin, but even if you end up printing 10 billion new USDT today, and make it buy bitcoin, that could return with all 10 billion of them sold back and get USD instead of USDT, we do not know how it will happen. Do not hope for something like this to change anything, USDT is just another stablecoin and not a big deal.

tmfp

legendary

Activity: 1932

Merit: 1737

"Common rogue from Russia with a bare ass."

Branko

sr. member

Activity: 2632

Merit: 328

Quote from: exstasie on December 31, 2020, 01:40:51 AM

Losing control of dollars held in a bank account is a matter of third party trust gone bad. That's very different than intentionally printing unbacked tokens.

You believe 16 billion USDT printed in 2020 is backed by fiat? They had trouble to back it 1:1 when market cap was 700m, but now suddenly found 20 billion somewhere?

exstasie

legendary

Activity: 1806

Merit: 1521

Quote from: bbc.reporter on December 31, 2020, 12:17:38 AM

@exstasie. However, there are no more audits proving that Tether is backed by fiat reserves.

No stablecoin has ever been audited. The most we've seen is a balance sheet attestation from Circle for USDC, which Tether also did a few years ago with Friedman LLP.

Circle's accounting firm can tell you why audits don't take place:

Quote from: bbc.reporter on December 31, 2020, 12:17:38 AM

Tether can also be charged of price manipulation if indeed billions of USDT have been printed without backing.

Now we're talking about two different things. If Tether was used to manipulate the price of BTC, that doesn't mean Tether manipulated the price of USDT. That's what matters regarding characterization of USDT as a security. If a company is manipulating the price of Bitcoin, that is within the purview of the CFTC and not the SEC, since Bitcoin is not a security.

As for the Tether printer, you're just repeating more FUD. Tongue

There is no evidence Tether issued USDT without backing. There is evidence that some issued USDT became unbacked after the Crypto Capital/Bitfinex fiasco. You may not think the distinction is important, but it is crucial to establishing whether Tether ever actually "printed" anything.

Losing control of dollars held in a bank account is a matter of third party trust gone bad. That's very different than intentionally printing unbacked tokens.

bbc.reporter

legendary

Activity: 3122

Merit: 1492

@ exstasie. However, there are no more audits proving that Tether is backed by fiat reserves. Tether can also be charged of price manipulation if indeed billions of USDT have been printed without backing.

Also add the FBI and the DHS for money laundering charges, tax evation, fraud and terrorist financing. The American government might throw the whole book on them hehehe.

exstasie

legendary

Activity: 1806

Merit: 1521

Quote from: Branko on December 30, 2020, 05:18:25 AM

So what will happen if SEC goes after USDT similar way as they went after XRP?

Why would they? How does Tether qualify as a security under federal securities law, and how does USDT issuance qualify as an unregistered securities offering? I'm no lawyer, but I just don't see it. I just see a bunch of hand waving.

Ripple was a very different situation where the issuer maintained ownership of a significant majority of XRP and blatantly engaged in price manipulation.

A "senior advisor for digital assets" at the SEC recently commented on stablecoins. In her view, stablecoins backed by fiat reserves probably do not violate securities laws. https://tokenist.com/senior-advisor-for-sec-some-stablecoins-violate-securities-laws/

None of this means Tether is legally in the clear. I just think it won't be the SEC who comes after them. Fincen + the US Attorneys office seems more likely, if anything.

Branko

sr. member

Activity: 2632

Merit: 328

Quote from: exstasie on December 30, 2020, 05:01:20 AM

Quote from: Branko on December 30, 2020, 04:24:12 AM

aaaand...look at year 2020 tether printing (from 4 to 20+ billions in a year) and everyone thinks
current bull market is "organic"

I remember accusations that 700m tether is fake and not covered by fiat back in 2017...how about 20 billion?

Question: What happens when people wire billions of dollars to crypto exchanges?
Answer: Bull markets.

Whether it's Tether, Coinbase, or Bitstamp receiving the wires shouldn't make a difference. During a bull market, all of them would be receiving ramped up inflows. We just don't get any blockchain data detailing how much USD Coinbase and Bitstamp are crediting to user accounts.

Also, Tether has become quite popular as a means for cross-border remittance: Millions in Crypto Is Crossing the Russia-China Border Daily. There, Tether Is King

Strong OTC demand for USDT (possibly from the remittance market) often pushes USDT above $1 on exchanges. This further reinforces dollar inflows to Tether, as depositors move to arbitrage the peg back to $1.

So what will happen if SEC goes after USDT similar way as they went after XRP?

exstasie

legendary

Activity: 1806

Merit: 1521

Quote from: Branko on December 30, 2020, 04:24:12 AM

aaaand...look at year 2020 tether printing (from 4 to 20+ billions in a year) and everyone thinks
current bull market is "organic"

I remember accusations that 700m tether is fake and not covered by fiat back in 2017...how about 20 billion?

Question: What happens when people wire billions of dollars to crypto exchanges?
Answer: Bull markets.

Whether it's Tether, Coinbase, or Bitstamp receiving the wires shouldn't make a difference. During a bull market, all of them would be receiving ramped up inflows. We just don't get any blockchain data detailing how much USD Coinbase and Bitstamp are crediting to user accounts.

Also, Tether has become quite popular as a means for cross-border remittance: Millions in Crypto Is Crossing the Russia-China Border Daily. There, Tether Is King

Strong OTC demand for USDT (possibly from the remittance market) often pushes USDT above $1 on exchanges. This further reinforces dollar inflows to Tether, as depositors move to arbitrage the peg back to $1.

Branko

sr. member

Activity: 2632

Merit: 328

aaaand...look at year 2020 tether printing (from 4 to 20+ billions in a year) and everyone thinks
current bull market is "organic"

I remember accusations that 700m tether is fake and not covered by fiat back in 2017...how about 20 billion?

Topic: Bear market? Will NEVER HAPPEN because of tether printing. (Read 818 times)