Topic: Before a disgruntled customer says anything...Check Now! - page 2. (Read 7894 times)

Damn. I was interested in these poured bars too from an earlier thread... This thread is great evidence of a really bad transaction that is just so much headache I wouldn't want to get involved in. I have no idea why there can't just be a refund or something. I have made several positive transactions in bitcoin and I am very happy with the system, but this is painful. Thanks for the information.

Again, I'm a numismatist. I collect rare coins. Of course in collecting real coins I come across cull silver coins (worth only melt). If I find a good deal on these, I buy them. I RARELY melt them down. I do it when people ask. Some like the allure of a "silver bar" rather than a handful of old, crappy looking coins. But generally I don't melt coins. I have a thread up now somewhere offering a bunch of 90% coins.
As far as melting stamped sterling pieces...are you trying to argue why an entire industry/hobby exists? Would you rather have a handful of flattened sterling silver rings or a solid 925 bar of silver?

Who would take stamped sterling and melt it into some incongruous suspicious mass?  How much value did your spent time, labor, fuel, etc add to the silver?  And who the hell would melt minted coins?  Do you know understand the value of easily identifiable bullion?

Bitcoins bring out the moron in everything.

Appreciate it. If anyone reads through this whole thing they'll understand whats going on. African Hunter bought the first ingots I ever made (and he knew that), and I worked hard to first get the scrap to a temperature where the silver melted and the alloy didn't. And to compensate, I added a ton of silver shot. Truth be told I did believe the ingots were .99. But just in case they weren't, I decided to include a Barber Half Dollar. That would make up for silver content even if ALL the ingots were 925 instead of .99. The "I will make it right" was before I decided to include the Barber-that was making it right.
About a month after the transaction (and after African Hunter had left me positive feedback) he comes back saying the assay results show the silver to be at 925,.9 and .8 (impossible because my torch doesn't get hot enough to BOIL silver and thus melt it off). Of course he had no literature, nothing to scan and show me (wouldn't you think an assay includes that?)
Of course I said no returns, that transaction was over and done with. He still got a great deal on silver and got more than what he paid for since I threw the Barber in as an insurance policy to avoid this exact scenario. It turned out the "alleged" (important word) lack of silver was about $5 worth. He already had that silver as part of the insurance policy that was the Barber, but I offered him a pre-64 quarter.
This wasn't good enough for him. He wanted silver in the form of either silver coins or minted bullion. Translation: interestingly this all coincided with the drop in silver prices. He wanted to take the great deal on silver he got from me and make money off it. But, he realized you can't trade homemade ingots like you can minted ones. So he was out of luck.
Anyone who reads this can form their own opinion, but that's what happened. And ask yourself-you see how many pages this thread is, how much time "African Hunter" has spent trying to get no more than $6 in silver (which the quarter I offered him would have done). It should be plain to see.
I am REALLY tired of this issue but feel like I have to keep posting on this thread to defend myself from the way "African Hunter" takes messages out of context (I did say I would make it right-before I decided the way I was going to do that was adding the Barber Half) and just provides examples that are entirely unlike this issue.
Just know that if you're a customer of mine you get whatever it is you pay for. I have started filming the making of my ingots so issues like this can't arise in the future. There are plenty of good people I've traded with on here. People whose back I have and will vouch for, and people who will do the same for me.

Just don't worry about him, you gave him too much. If you have any other problems with him let me know and I will send my assassins to make him love the ingot he bought from you and pay you a little extra just because he was so happy about it! : ))) Just kiddin'

Just looks like the .925 (sterling silver) source silver was lower than .925% (possible some fake stamped sterling silver) or the .99% silver shot added was lower quality.

I think those assay guns are going to become alot more common after the fake gold in NY.

Well, that thread sure shows one thing. You shouldn't buy from a guy who names himself after really bad Scotch.

See bold and then this thread;

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/before-i-melt-itsoo-much-silver-131872

So you weren't going to melt the coins in the thread saying you we're going to melt the coins? (No editing please or I will just post a screen cap.

Again for clarity "contact me and I will make it right"

Saying because you included a coin plus ingots in the original deal that now, when the ingots are far below what was promised, deal is closed makes you look even worse than before.

Salesman: Hey, buy this used Mustang V8 today. Trust me this is an awesome car and you will have women chasing after you.
Buyer: sure, that is a good deal and I do like the wimmenz but I'm not sure. It is used and I kinda wanted a new car
Salesman: here I will give you a set of floor mats to sweeten the deal. I will make it right if you don't like the car
Buyer: Sold.
(Buyer drives it home)

While later buyer takes his V8 to a mechanic.

Mechanic: did you know this is only a v6?
Buyer: well crap, that wasn't what I was sold! I will go talk to the salesman, I'm sure he will make it right just like he promised.

Buyer: my mechanic just checked and said this is only a V6, I would like my money back or something equal to what you sold me
Salesman: WHAT! ALL SALES ARE FINAL, I GAVE YOU THE FLOOR MATS, HOW DO I KNOW IT ISN'T YOUR BUDDY WHO TOLD YOU IT WAS A V6, NO I WILL NOT GO WITH YOU TO ANOTHER MECHANIC... THEY COST MONEY YOU KNOW
Buyer: Just relax, there are lots of ways we can work this out
Salesman: STOP TALKING TO ME OR I WILL FILE HARASSMENT CHARGES AGAINST YOU. IF I SEE YOU HERE AGAIN I WILL CALL THE POLICE. (Runs inside and quickly makes a sign saying his customer is a liar, scammer and fraud... said sign doesn't cause the reaction he had hoped)
Salesman to angry mob: I GAVE HIM FLOOR MATS! THE PRICE HE PAID WAS THE GOING PRICE FOR A V6! IT WAS THE FIRST CAR I SOLD! IT'S HIS FAULT IN THE END! I GAVE HIM FLOOR MATS FOR CHRIST SAKES. IT'S ONLY 2 CYLINDERS...... SO WANNA BUY SOME OTHER CARS FROM ME? YOU CAN TOTALLY TRUST THAT I AM AN ETHICAL SALESMAN AND WILL TAKE CARE OF YOU SHOULD SOMETHING COME UP.

Some artistic liberties takes above but I think it gets the general point across.

You're right, because that would more than make up for the silver content that was supposedly missing. Something I warned you about and provided a solution for in the first place. So yes, I did go above and beyond 2 times. I do not melt my coins, I collect them. If all it took to get you off my back was one silver quarter, that was fine with me. Again, I know you are so upset not because of the purity of the bars, but because you couldn't turn the deal on silver you got around, because you didn't realize its much harder to trade self-made ingots than it is to trade professionally minted ones. I know I violated my own self saying I was not going to post anymore, but African Hunter has just proved that I offered a second solution to provide him with the silver he supposedly (important word here) was missing.

The fact that you don't understand this isn't about "$5 of silver" (haven't done the math so can't say if you are right or wrong) speaks volumes. It is about you fraudulently listing and selling something which was not as described. Also, I generally buy and hold silver. I am not a flipper so your statement about me thinking I could just make a quick buck isn't accurate. And who is more likely to not know self bars aren't as valuable as mint bars; me or the guy who didn't know bullion is sold in Troy ounces for spot (aka, you).

If you are so confident I am wrong you had multiple ways to prove me so and/or make this right:

1. I offered a bet on silver content
2. I offered multiple times to post all of our correspondence but said I would not do so without your consent.
3. I offered to trade you weight for weight, your bars to pre-64 coins(which you said we're just going to get melted anyway)
4. I offered to meet you for a return
5. I offered (before and after I knew the results) to join me and get them assayed, at a place of your choosing
6. I offered to meet you and exchange for silver in any recognizable format

All you have offered is to send me 1 pre-64 quarter to make up for it, then promptly threw a tantrum and made this thread (remember, that was you not me. I'm sure it has done wonders for your reputation here).

There was (and still is) a middle ground in all this. You chose instead to act like a petulant child who gets caught stealing candy.

I'm sorry, but I can't resist. Here we have another genius. Are you familiar with the melting temperature of silver? How about copper? zinc? 92.5% silver contains impurities, like the aforementioned. They have a higher melting temperature than silver does. Therefore, they don't get melted, and they don't get poured into the mold. A little more clear for you now, Bill Nye?
No matter what African Hunter or anybody says, I'm done with this thread. African Hunter made his signature "Happy with me exposing JohnnieWalker? Donate Bitcoins Here: xx" over about $5 worth of silver, which this entire argument was about. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that you're upset because you can't market my ingots like you can professionally minted ones. Thats why they were offered at the price they were. You thought you found a great deal and could capitalize on it, but you weren't so lucky. You have more silver than if every one of those bars was .99, and you didn't even pay for it. If anyone has any doubt: literally the value at hand here is less than $5. Who would go to so much work and spend so much time arguing over $5.

Me on December 4: Just one thing-I know these are .99 and having another person in possession of them scares me. No offense to you (of course not, you're a guy on the internet), but there are plenty of people who would come back saying "It isn't .99" and I would have no recourse.
Also, the reason I priced these so low is because I need to sell them fast. If all you could give me right now was 50% I might have to pass. But I'll tell you this-as a man and as a screenshot of this message, if the bars are not what I say they are, contact me and I will make it right (in-case theres no discrepancy-which there isn't, but I don't want it to be .9899 or something like that) after Christmas, when I''m not broke. Or before-I have more silver coins.

Even though no evidence was presented, apparently the bars were not what I said. My recourse: Sending the Barber Half Dollar. Case Closed.

LOL WARNING them? Are you that pathetic? You realize you've been arguing over about $5 in silver (which you already have)? Hold on, let me dig through some old messages.

OK all, I am done. Think it is pretty clear what happened here for anyone who cares to read through the mess of stream of thought posts from my friend above without line breaks.

Good Luck JW and I hope you learn something from this though I fear it will be lost on you for some time to come.

PS- If anyone wants to send me a donation for warning them about JW and saving them all the time/trouble feel free 1Hu2aw2vwp5BUfUfFS4AvuAwLutNGxHqMP

I feel you on the caps, and I regret that. Its like how they say to wait a day to cool off before you do anything. Bold I would only use for emphasis.

Don't reply to your customers in all-caps or bold font. Just don't.

I didn't quote "African Hunter"'s last reply because the quoting was getting ridiculous. If anyone wants to see, I have plenty of messages telling "African Hunter" that these may not be of .99 purity. He knew they were the first ingots I ever cast. I am a numismatist also, and so I picked a Barber Half Dollar (11.25 grams of pure silver) to throw in. In messages, "African Hunter" kept repeating that he would buy the Barber from me. But I said no, I am including it in case the purity of the ingots is not .99. Now, I sold "African Hunter" a .87, .97. 1 ounce, and 1.1 ounce (and they were overweight...like the 1.1 was 1.13 or something). That way I figured that even if the ingots were of .925 purity (since this is the scrap I melted), "African Hunter" would have the Barber and thus the additional 11.5 grams of silver. I would like "African Hunter" to say that he got less silver than he paid for, since he did notpay for the additional 11.5 grams of silver. That was me being careful, trying to ensure this exact same thing didn't happen.
Now, what I believe to be the case is that "African Hunter" thought he could take the great deal on silver he got from me, turn around, and sell it for more. But, people are hesitant to buy silver not minted by any professional agency/institution/etc. I keep them myself for long-term investment. If you want to buy silver that you can easily trade, I suggest the US mint.
And for the user that said I threatened to call the police-I only did so out of fear because "African Hunter" happens to live locally. I do not know him or his temperament-he is just some guy on the internet. If it became a matter of my safety, I most certainly would have called the police.