Topic: Bernie Sanders is the Frontrunner for the Dems - page 5. (Read 999 times)

It wasn't much of a surprise, he won it within the margin of error of most polls.

Super Tuesday is forecast to give Sanders ~50% of the available delegates (I mean delegates available in those states, not the total) but there is a lot variance possible due to the 15% threshold and so many candidates still in the race. Assuming he does get 50% or more, it would make his path to the nomination easier.

Biden can win a couple of southern states on Tuesday, which may not help him much, but if he wins or comes close in Texas (second largest to California by delegate count) then he can put a dent in Sanders' 50%.

Really? Ok. Well if you're going to throw out "far less", you have to compare apples to apples which no one ever does.

The one country I did look into since it always comes up is Canada. It does not cover dental. It does not cover eyecare. And up until recently they had to pay a monthly fee but that's 100% put onto the companies now (i.e. not just their employees that they would pay for previously but also every citizen). There could be other fees that I never came across as well. Bernie wants to do all the things they don't do. As much as Canadians love their healthcare and would never give it up, they also recognize the flaws and issues with it. Long wait times for some things are one of them. But for other things, it's better. It can also depend on the region and so on and so forth. Things are never as "perfect" as the pro universal healthcare people claim and the other side cherry picks things as well.

As for other countries, you have to look into each one. Not all of them cover everything like Bernie wants to do and those that might, have other issues or ways they handle it. So the blanket "well other countries do it soooooo", is just disingenuous at best as it's not giving the public all the information they should have in order to make an intelligent decision.

Bottom line though, it will improve things for the lower end of people and it won't be as "top notch" for the upper end that pay for that premium. Assuming of course Bernie doesn't fold on allowing people to still get their own insurance which I think would go a long way to "selling" it.

I personally think that upending a whole list of things for the "revolution" is just ludicrous when the same things could be achieved from well thought out incremental changes so that the impacts could be measured to ensure the end goals are achieved. But that would be too rational and logical I guess and we live in a time of "feelings".

Edit: By the way. It's well known that a shit load of people are going to be put out of work by Bernie's plan. Can someone tell me what he's going to do with basically forcing companies to close down? Seems like no one cares that the government would end up doing that. An entire industry decimated it looks like to me.

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My main point is that arguments like 'Bernie is Socialist and Nazis were Socialist, therefore....' are not valid arguments.  Instead of focusing on the labels, you should take an objective look at his proposals.

Indeed we need socialist/communist politicians in this country - look how well it has worked in California and countries like Soviet Union, Nazi Germany, Venezuela, and others. Street homelessness in tents, cardboard boxes and gulags for you.

Venezuela isn't in a crisis because of their healthcare system.  They're in a crisis because they have a an authoritarian president who abused his power for political gains at the cost of the people.

Nope. It is a fact. Read The United States Constitution. Nowhere does it say anything about a mandate to provide for the population.

"Miami to hold ‘anti-Communist’ concert after Sanders defends Castro regime"
https://nypost.com/2020/02/26/miami-to-hold-anti-communist-concert-after-sanders-defends-castro-regime/

Like I said, Bernie just lost himself Florida, a key swing state.

My main point is that arguments like 'Bernie is Socialist and Nazis were Socialist, therefore....' are not valid arguments.  Instead of focusing on the labels, you should take an objective look at his proposals.

I know Capitalists consider themselves 'anti-socialist' and all flavors of Socialists consider themselves 'ant-capitalist', but in reality Socialism and Capitalism aren't binaries.  They are opposite ends of a spectrum, and every first world country in the world has a combination of Socialist and Capitalist policies.

Sure Biden surprised everybody with the in South Carolina but which way do you see it heading?

Nope. It is a fact. Read The United States Constitution. Nowhere does it say anything about a mandate to provide for the population. Funny you describe it as a wish/fantasy when that is quite literally what this push for universal healthcare is. That all aside, I clearly outlined why this is a dangerous precedent that is not desirable even if some people are fooled into thinking it is.

Like I said, Bernie just lost himself Florida, a key swing state.

That's just your opinion/wish/fantasy and not a fact. The government is of, by and for the people and it they want it to do so then they will.

, it is not the government's job to provide for us

Why are you talking about healthcare as if he was saying that was "evil"? Pretty sure he was talking about socialism after my post about Bernie and what he says he is.

Germany had their own "form" of socialism with anti capitalism being a big part of it. And while they didn't want to do social programs, they ended up having to and made up some "racial" justification for it. Not like any of that really matters.

USSR communism derived itself from socialism.

Venezula is in "crisis" because of their socialist government, their mismanagement or the oil resources and the big drop in oil prices which they never prepared for. Could throw in sanctions as well as a contributing factor. I will say though, as someone who has friends there that I talk to regularly, they all are not happy with how the west portrays what's going on in their country. "Misleading" is the nicer phrase they tend to use.

You can certainly say it's the people in charge that are "evil" etc.. But then you have to ask yourself why that form of government tends to lead to that.


I posted what a Democratic Socialist is and that's what Bernie says he is. Not good. And as I said, maybe he's confused. But I went and checked and he knows very well that what he appears to promote is social democracy (he's used that term and he points to social democracies as examples) and yet he persists with using the other term for some reason and it almost looks like he's trying to redefine it for his own purposes. That makes zero sense and opens the door to all sorts of negative speculations as to his motivations for doing that. It also makes it very easy for the right to defeat him as the republicans are experts at fear mongering. Just need to run ads saying that he says he's a democratic socialist followed by the definition. They don't even have to get dirty although you know they will.

The Nazis healthcare system isn't what made them evil.  It was because they committed genocide and tried to take over the world.

The Soviet Union wasn't a horrible place to live because of their healthcare system.  It was because they were run by an Authoritarian who didn't allow any sort of capitalism.

Venezuela isn't in a crisis because of their healthcare system.  They're in a crisis because they have a an authoritarian president who abused his power for political gains at the cost of the people.

Unless you believe Bernie is secretly planning on moving away from Democracy and toward authoritarianism, it doesn't make sense to compare him to all those evil regimes.

I'm not a Bernie bro, btw.  I don't know for sure what the best path forward is (and I think anyone who thinks they do isn't looking at things objectively), other than it would involve a balance of Capitalism and Socialist policies.

I'm not a Bernie bro, btw.  I don't know for sure what the best path forward is (and I think anyone who thinks they do isn't looking at things objectively), other than it would involve a balance of Capitalism and Socialist policies.

The Nazis healthcare system isn't what made them evil.  It was because they committed genocide and tried to take over the world.

The Soviet Union wasn't a horrible place to live because of their healthcare system.  It was because they were run by an Authoritarian who didn't allow any sort of capitalism.

Venezuela isn't in a crisis because of their healthcare system.  They're in a crisis because they have a an authoritarian president who abused his power for political gains at the cost of the people.

Unless you believe Bernie is secretly planning on moving away from Democracy and toward authoritarianism, it doesn't make sense to compare him to all those evil regimes.

I'm not a Bernie bro, btw.  I don't know for sure what the best path forward is (and I think anyone who thinks they do isn't looking at things objectively), other than it would involve a balance of Capitalism and Socialist policies.

Unless you believe Bernie is secretly planning on moving away from Democracy and toward authoritarianism, it doesn't make sense to compare him to all those evil regimes.

Indeed we need socialist/communist politicians in this country - look how well it has worked in California and countries like Soviet Union, Nazi Germany, Venezuela, and others.

Street homelessness in tents, cardboard boxes and gulags for you.

"Ending the use of private health insurance" is certainly an overstatement, as it can't be done and won't be done. Regardless, its still not the same thing as a government-mandated closure of private health insurance companies. That can't happen, and he knows it can't happen. It was never on the table.

Democratic socialism is a political philosophy supporting political democracy within a socially owned economy, with a particular emphasis on workers' self-management and democratic control of economic institutions within a market socialist economy or some form of a decentralised planned socialist economy. Democratic socialists argue that capitalism is inherently incompatible with the values of freedom, equality and solidarity and that these ideals can only be achieved through the realisation of a socialist society.

“If you support Medicare for All, you have to be willing to end the greed of the health insurance and pharmaceutical industries,” he said. “That means boldly transforming our dysfunctional system by ending the use of private health insurance, except to cover non-essential care like cosmetic surgeries.”

His plan is to mobilize his followers to pressure the government to implement these things. He said as much in a Joe Rogen interview and his followers have said as much as well. We can certainly discuss whether or not it could actually happen, but that's what his plan is. Perhaps you don't get that they view this as a "revolution".

This is just nonsense. First of all, the president doesn't have that kind of power. Second of all, when did Bernie say he wants to shut down ALL private insurance, virtually or otherwise? Third of all, to think that Bernie's vision of universal healthcare will come to full fruition is naive. Of course it would ultimately be just some watered-down compromise where the jobs of those possessing the most well-funded health insurance and hospital corporation lobbyists will remain protected, and likely Bernie won't even affect any real change in the industry, similar to what happened with Obama.

However, its still a step in the right direction - that we're at least willing to look at solutions to a massive problem - as the current healthcare system is heavily flawed and entirely unsustainable.