Best Method: How to mix - the entire process

o_e_l_e_o

legendary

Activity: 2268

Merit: 18586

Quote from: Avery_39 on October 01, 2020, 02:28:41 PM

I have now used Chipmixer with success. It's very very simple, I really didn't expect that.

Yes.

It also took me an embarrassingly long time to use the "Import" buttons on the page which displays the private keys, and to stop copy and pasting each one individually.

Quote from: Avery_39 on October 01, 2020, 02:28:41 PM

But for anyone who is using this thread as a guide, don't forget to configure your Electrum (on Tails) to store / save bitcoin on the Persistent Volume before you send any coin to it.

Definitely. I would suggest setting up Tails, setting up the persistent volume, setting up Electrum, creating a wallet and saving it in the persistent volume, noting down the first address, and then shutting down your computer, unplugging the flash drive, and then loading everything up again from scratch to ensure your wallet is still there before you send any coins to it. And as I said above, you should still be securely storing your seed phrase on paper as protection against loss or damage of your flash drive.

Avery_39

newbie

Activity: 24

Merit: 23

Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on August 30, 2020, 04:42:15 AM

Glad you got it working.

Even when using Electrum with Tails, you should absolutely still be backing up your seed phrase in the normal way by writing it down on paper and storing it somewhere safe. This is important not just in case the persistent volume doesn't work for some reason as you say, but in case you lose the flash drive or it becomes damaged or corrupted in some way.

Thanks guys,
I have now used Chipmixer with success. It's very very simple, I really didn't expect that.

Also, I use Electrum on Tails for discreet BTC transactions. This seems to work fine.

But for anyone who is using this thread as a guide, don't forget to configure your Electrum (on Tails) to store / save bitcoin on the Persistent Volume before you send any coin to it.
.. Otherwise, you could lose it all if you shut down the Tails OS (or possibly even closing Electrum) if you don't transfer the BTC on to another wallet first!

shield132

hero member

Activity: 2198

Merit: 847

Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on August 29, 2020, 07:06:03 AM

VPNs do very little to protect your privacy. All you are doing is moving your single point of failure from your ISP to your VPN provider. You should use Tor instead.

Light wallets such as Electrum rely on connecting to other users' full nodes to broadcast transactions, which will reveal your IP address. Either run your own Electrum server, or better, run your own full node over Tor. If you want to pair that with a Trezor device, follow the instructions here: https://wiki.trezor.io/Full-node_wallet

Make sure to use ChipMixer's .onion domain - http://chipmixerwzxtzbw.onion/

Anything alone doesn't work to protect your privacy. VPN is needed when you use Tor for further security and at the same time not only using Tor is safe if you don't consider a little details, for example fullscreen Tor gives possibility to detect your screen size. At the same time there are Mac addresses that needs it's attention. Windows isn't safe for your anonimity, better to use Tails linux. Even this combination isn't that safe, when you need safety and anonymity on it's max, you have to turn other things too. It's just a very complex task and not some youtube tutorial or wikihow guide to go step by step and get the desired result.

o_e_l_e_o

legendary

Activity: 2268

Merit: 18586

Glad you got it working.

Even when using Electrum with Tails, you should absolutely still be backing up your seed phrase in the normal way by writing it down on paper and storing it somewhere safe. This is important not just in case the persistent volume doesn't work for some reason as you say, but in case you lose the flash drive or it becomes damaged or corrupted in some way.

Avery_39

newbie

Activity: 24

Merit: 23

Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on August 29, 2020, 11:33:41 AM

Quote from: Avery_39 on August 29, 2020, 07:34:21 AM

If I use a VPN, surely this will protect my IP, with only the VPN IP visible on the blockchain?

IP addresses are not stored on the blockchain, but they are visible to the node or nodes to which your broadcast your transaction, and in the case of light wallets, the node or nodes you use to retrieve data about the balance of your addresses. They are also visible to any block explorer you use to look up addresses or transactions, and given the vast majority of people use these site to look up their own addresses or transactions, easily linked.

You are right in saying that the IP your traffic comes from will be the VPN's IP, but you still have to have full trust in your VPN provider since they can now see and link all your traffic. There are also other ways outside of an IP to de-anonymize you, such as browser fingerprinting. Using Tor browser and connecting your wallet/node via Tor is a better solution then using a VPN.

Understood. I will use Electrum on Tails for critical transactions. I only hope that using Persistent Volume will work when it comes to saving my bitcoin in Electrum (inside Tails), and I won't lose my coin if the computer shuts down between receiving coin and sending it on somewhere else.

Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on August 29, 2020, 11:33:41 AM

Quote from: Avery_39 on August 29, 2020, 07:48:41 AM

The problem I'm currently experiencing with Tails is that I can't seem to install it on my Mac... The .img file seems to be corrupted.

Do you have a program installed which is capable of writing image files? Tails recommends using Etcher. There are instructions here: https://tails.boum.org/install/mac/usb/index.en.html

I actually found this page, but you replied before I could edit my previous post. Thank you anyway.

Also, I can now report that I have set up Tails (tails-amd64-4.9.img) on a Flash drive, along with a Persistent Volume, and it works great.

... Next, I will test Electrum on it.

o_e_l_e_o

legendary

Activity: 2268

Merit: 18586

Quote from: Avery_39 on August 29, 2020, 07:34:21 AM

If I use a VPN, surely this will protect my IP, with only the VPN IP visible on the blockchain?

IP addresses are not stored on the blockchain, but they are visible to the node or nodes to which your broadcast your transaction, and in the case of light wallets, the node or nodes you use to retrieve data about the balance of your addresses. They are also visible to any block explorer you use to look up addresses or transactions, and given the vast majority of people use these site to look up their own addresses or transactions, easily linked.

You are right in saying that the IP your traffic comes from will be the VPN's IP, but you still have to have full trust in your VPN provider since they can now see and link all your traffic. There are also other ways outside of an IP to de-anonymize you, such as browser fingerprinting. Using Tor browser and connecting your wallet/node via Tor is a better solution then using a VPN.

Quote from: Avery_39 on August 29, 2020, 07:48:41 AM

The problem I'm currently experiencing with Tails is that I can't seem to install it on my Mac... The .img file seems to be corrupted.

Do you have a program installed which is capable of writing image files? Tails recommends using Etcher. There are instructions here: https://tails.boum.org/install/mac/usb/index.en.html

Avery_39

newbie

Activity: 24

Merit: 23

Quote from: ChipMixer on August 28, 2020, 07:13:27 PM

Quote from: Avery_39 on August 28, 2020, 01:52:38 PM

Mixer (ChipMix)

Our service full name is ChipMixer. There is another service called "ChipMix" which impersonates our service.

Quote from: Avery_39 on August 28, 2020, 01:52:38 PM

Mixer (ChipMixer) - - - - - > Wasabi wallet (automatically on Tor) (use with ExpressVPN)

ChipMixer gives you private keys that should not be sweeped instantly for better privacy.
Wasabi wallet cannot import ChipMixer private keys.

If you want to use both - you should add another wallet (ie. Electrum) where you can import private keys before sending it to Wasabi.
Or use Wasabi first then ChipMixer.

Thank you. Ok, so I cannot sent my mixed coins from ChipMixer to Wasabi. How about these processes?

1. Trezor One (Hardware) - - - - - > Mixer (ChipMixer) - - - - - > Electrum (on Tails) - - - - - > Destination wallet

2. Electrum - - - - - > Mixer (ChipMixer) - - - - - > Electrum (on Tails) - - - - - > Destination wallet

[Update; I now have the solution for below]
The problem I'm currently experiencing with Tails is that I can't seem to install it on my Mac... The .img file seems to be corrupted.
... I have asked Tails customer support for help. I'll post back here when (if) they provide a solution.

(I have noted your onion address: ChipMixerwzxtzbw.onion Thank you)

Avery_39

newbie

Activity: 24

Merit: 23

Thanks for posting.

Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on August 29, 2020, 07:06:03 AM

Light wallets such as Electrum rely on connecting to other users' full nodes to broadcast transactions, which will reveal your IP address.

If I use a VPN, surely this will protect my IP, with only the VPN IP visible on the blockchain?

(I appreciate you prefer Tor compared with trusting a VPN company, I understand there is more risk with this)

Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on August 29, 2020, 07:06:03 AM

Either run your own Electrum server, or better, run your own full node over Tor. If you want to pair that with a Trezor device, follow the instructions here: https://wiki.trezor.io/Full-node_wallet

Here https://bitcoin.org/en/full-node#minimum-requirements (a link from the Trezor page: https://wiki.trezor.io/Full-node_wallet) I see that running a "full node" requires 350 GB space on a hard drive. I currently don't have anywhere near enough space on my hard drives on any of my computers, although I do have more than enough RAM.

.. This option will require investing in an additional hard drive.

Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on August 29, 2020, 07:06:03 AM

Make sure to use ChipMixer's .onion domain - http://chipmixerwzxtzbw.onion/

I have noted this. Thanks

o_e_l_e_o

legendary

Activity: 2268

Merit: 18586

VPNs do very little to protect your privacy. All you are doing is moving your single point of failure from your ISP to your VPN provider. You should use Tor instead.

Light wallets such as Electrum rely on connecting to other users' full nodes to broadcast transactions, which will reveal your IP address. Either run your own Electrum server, or better, run your own full node over Tor. If you want to pair that with a Trezor device, follow the instructions here: https://wiki.trezor.io/Full-node_wallet

Make sure to use ChipMixer's .onion domain - http://chipmixerwzxtzbw.onion/

Karartma1

legendary

Activity: 2310

Merit: 1422

@Avery_39
If you go by using mixers I strongly advise you to use .onion addresses. Tor works in a way that if you request non-Tor websites you will have to trust the Tor exit node to give you the right (or wrong) site encrypted status.
Long story short: when using mixers (or anything on Tor really) make sure you always connect to .onion addresses. This way you can rest assured that your connection with whatever service is, at least, encrypted.

ChipMixer

sr. member

Activity: 456

Merit: 956

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1935098

Quote from: Avery_39 on August 28, 2020, 01:52:38 PM

Mixer (ChipMix)

Our service full name is ChipMixer. There is another service called "ChipMix" which impersonates our service.

Quote from: Avery_39 on August 28, 2020, 01:52:38 PM

Mixer (ChipMixer) - - - - - > Wasabi wallet (automatically on Tor) (use with ExpressVPN)

ChipMixer gives you private keys that should not be sweeped instantly for better privacy.
Wasabi wallet cannot import ChipMixer private keys.

If you want to use both - you should add another wallet (ie. Electrum) where you can import private keys before sending it to Wasabi.
Or use Wasabi first then ChipMixer.

shield132

hero member

Activity: 2198

Merit: 847

The basics for security are: Tails (Linux), VPN, Tor and then mixers but for the sake of god, why do you need them? If you want to buy something legal but at the same time don't want to leave traces, believe me, just using random reputable mixer without vpn and other staff will be enough. No one ever will makr any investigation on a person who buys clothes or dietary supplements online. They make investigation when there is high doubts around certain person.
If what you do is legal, then no need to worry. For educational purposes, I already said shortly basics of stack for higher security. If security is the field you are interested in, then learn it. Just 1-2 answer from this forum won't help.

Avery_39

newbie

Activity: 24

Merit: 23

Quote from: hulla on August 28, 2020, 10:59:26 AM

Thats correct but you still need to understand the basic setting of Tor fir total anonymity.

Thanks for the Tor link. I have used the Tor browser before, but it looks like the only other option if Torifying an application, which reading the guide (https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/wiki/doc/TorifyHOWTO) looks very complicated, and will most likely be beyond my current understanding and abilities.

I think I will have to settle for using Tor-based programs like Wasabi Wallet to receive my coin from the mixer, while also using a VPN.
A server room used by ExpressVPN was raided by the Turkish Police not so long ago, and they found nothing.. no logs of user activity. Link to news article: https://www.comparitech.com/blog/vpn-privacy/expressvpn-server-seized-in-turkey-verifyies-no-logs-claim/

Quote from: hulla on August 28, 2020, 10:59:26 AM

Quote from: Avery_39 on August 28, 2020, 06:40:13 AM

3/ Use a CoinJoin wallet to send coin to mixer. Does this mean I will need to send the coin from a Wasabi wallet to the Mixer, and then from the Mixer to another Wasabi wallet? (Wasabi uses CoinJoin)

This would be stressful. Just send the coin normal to the mixing which surf through tor but i recommend chipmix or blender while you reach the coin throuh wasabi and use wasabi to send your personal wallet.
Note : dont use wasabi to send large amount of coin due to some shortcomings.

Thank you, I think this will be the process I will follow:

Trezor wallet (use with ExpressVPN) - - - - - > Mixer (ChipMix) - - - - - > Wasabi wallet (automatically on Tor) (use with ExpressVPN) - - - - - > Destination wallet

Regarding Wasabi and sending large amounts, what amount of BTC do you/they consider to be "large"? – And what might be "problematic"?

.

Bitum

sr. member

Activity: 1414

Merit: 271

bitonator.tangled.com/join

Quote from: hulla on August 27, 2020, 06:53:38 PM

Quote from: bitmover on August 27, 2020, 05:23:37 PM

No need to use VPN/TOR when mixing coins.

There's need to use VPN/TOR before mixing coins but in a situation when privacy is top priority it is better to use Tor because some mixing company use cloudflare.

Quote from: bitmover on August 27, 2020, 05:23:37 PM

It is also important to remember that you shouldn't mix ALL of your coins, because in the future we don't know if those coins that came from mixers will be "tainted". Unless you really need to do so.

Thats why it important to use reputable mixing company with the inclusion of privacy wallet like wasabi/samurai should enough to have total anonymity and was what theymos advised either i.e
Software wallet (Electrum) - - - - - > Mixer - - - - - > wasabi/samurai - - - - - > Hardware wallet/Destination

Thanks for pointing out that for me personally this would be the best path in the future. I do not do any criminal business, but if it continues with anonymity, then I will definitely use it. I just don't like when someone wants to control me, including the state

hulla

hero member

Activity: 1820

Merit: 566

Quote from: Avery_39 on August 28, 2020, 06:40:13 AM

Quote from: hulla on August 28, 2020, 05:44:34 AM

Quote from: Avery_39 on August 28, 2020, 05:14:50 AM

Quote from: hulla on August 27, 2020, 06:53:38 PM

Quote from: bitmover on August 27, 2020, 05:23:37 PM

No need to use VPN/TOR when mixing coins.

There's need to use VPN/TOR before mixing coins but in a situation when privacy is top priority it is better to use Tor because some mixing company use cloudflare.

Thanks... if I "do" need to use VPN/Tor before mixing, am I looking for a
1/ Mixer that only uses Tor,
2/ using Tor on my OS/Mac (before mixing),
3/ using a wallet that has Tor (before mixing)?

VPN is not recommended because if it something that involve the authority the VPN provider make unleash user IP address.
1) Using of the onion site of mixing company is what I said
2) answer number one
3) It will be better if you coinjoin wallet.

Thanks, ok:
1/ Use Onion version of a mixer
2/ [same as above]

Thats correct but you still need to understand the basic setting of Tor fir total anonymity.

Quote from: Avery_39 on August 28, 2020, 06:40:13 AM

3/ Use a CoinJoin wallet to send coin to mixer. Does this mean I will need to send the coin from a Wasabi wallet to the Mixer, and then from the Mixer to another Wasabi wallet? (Wasabi uses CoinJoin)

This would be stressful. Just send the coin normal to the mixing which surf through tor but i recommend chipmix or blender while you reach the coin throuh wasabi and use wasabi to send your personal wallet.
Note : dont use wasabi to send large amount of coin due to some shortcomings.

Avery_39

newbie

Activity: 24

Merit: 23

Quote from: hulla on August 28, 2020, 05:44:34 AM

Quote from: Avery_39 on August 28, 2020, 05:14:50 AM

Quote from: hulla on August 27, 2020, 06:53:38 PM

Quote from: bitmover on August 27, 2020, 05:23:37 PM

No need to use VPN/TOR when mixing coins.

There's need to use VPN/TOR before mixing coins but in a situation when privacy is top priority it is better to use Tor because some mixing company use cloudflare.

Thanks... if I "do" need to use VPN/Tor before mixing, am I looking for a
1/ Mixer that only uses Tor,
2/ using Tor on my OS/Mac (before mixing),
3/ using a wallet that has Tor (before mixing)?

VPN is not recommended because if it something that involve the authority the VPN provider make unleash user IP address.
1) Using of the onion site of mixing company is what I said
2) answer number one
3) It will be better if you coinjoin wallet.

Thanks, ok:
1/ Use Onion version of a mixer
2/ [same as above]
3/ Use a CoinJoin wallet to send coin to mixer. Does this mean I will need to send the coin from a Wasabi wallet to the Mixer, and then from the Mixer to another Wasabi wallet? (Wasabi uses CoinJoin)

Quote

I have downloaded Wasabi but have never used it before. Why do you suggest Wasabi be used in addition to the Mixer?

I suggest the use of it for total anonymity cause the maybe some mistake from mixing company ending.

Thanks for explaining

Quote

To safely receive coins from the mixer, can't a Trezor be used in conjunction with a VPN?

Using VPN with Trezor is completely useless because Trezor is not privacy wallet and you should be fine if you follow the process I posted earlier.

Thank you

Avery_39

newbie

Activity: 24

Merit: 23

Quote from: Karartma1 on August 28, 2020, 05:44:13 AM

Avery_39 you can never be fully anonymous. Don't fool yourself on this: you can take all the necessary steps to try to be as anonymous as possible but you will never reach 100%

Having said that I suggest you look into:

Wasabi wallet

https://medium.com/@keratichop/how-to-use-wasabi-wallet-coinjoin-guide-3102f8cc5d3c

Samourai Wallet

https://medium.com/samourai-wallet/diving-head-first-into-whirlpool-anonymity-sets-4156a54b0bc7

Before making any move try to reach a level of confidence with the matter, otherwise you are only going to do a big mess.

If you don't feel comfortable mixing coins yourself then use mixers but do your own research before using them and try to compare them.
My 2 sats for you.

Thank you. I will study your Wasabi info link. I really like the idea of it using Tor all the time as standard.

I have briefly looked at Samourai before, it looks good, but alas I don't have a PC or an Android phone.

Avery_39

newbie

Activity: 24

Merit: 23

Quote from: AB de Royse777 on August 27, 2020, 11:54:36 PM

Quote from: Avery_39 on August 27, 2020, 05:11:49 PM

SENDING:

Use .onion version of the mixer.

Thanks

Quote from: AB de Royse777 on August 27, 2020, 11:54:36 PM

Quote

RECEIVING:

Use a VPN, a free one is okay too. Create a new wallet while your VPN is active. Send the mixed coins to the new wallet. And from now on, use VPN always even when you load the wallet. Never send the coins to any service which requires KYC and an address of yours which is known to others.

To mix, so far Chipmixer is the best IMO.

Thanks. So, just to clarify, for RECEIVING I keep my VPN "on" whenever I open my receiving wallet.. which involves;

Creating the wallet address to receive coins,
Checking my wallet to see if the coins have arrived from the mixer
Sending the mixed coins onto a destination
.. ?

hulla

hero member

Activity: 1820

Merit: 566

Quote from: Avery_39 on August 28, 2020, 05:14:50 AM

Quote from: hulla on August 27, 2020, 06:53:38 PM

Quote from: bitmover on August 27, 2020, 05:23:37 PM

No need to use VPN/TOR when mixing coins.

There's need to use VPN/TOR before mixing coins but in a situation when privacy is top priority it is better to use Tor because some mixing company use cloudflare.

Thanks... if I "do" need to use VPN/Tor before mixing, am I looking for a
1/ Mixer that only uses Tor,
2/ using Tor on my OS/Mac (before mixing),
3/ using a wallet that has Tor (before mixing)?

VPN is not recommended because if it something that involve the authority the VPN provider make unleash user IP address.
1) Using of the onion site of mixing company is what I said
2) answer number one
3) It will be better if you coinjoin wallet.

Quote from: Avery_39 on August 28, 2020, 05:14:50 AM

Quote from: hulla on August 27, 2020, 06:53:38 PM

Quote from: bitmover on August 27, 2020, 05:23:37 PM

It is also important to remember that you shouldn't mix ALL of your coins, because in the future we don't know if those coins that came from mixers will be "tainted". Unless you really need to do so.

Thats why it important to use reputable mixing company with the inclusion of privacy wallet like wasabi/samurai should enough to have total anonymity and was what theymos advised either i.e
Software wallet (Electrum) - - - - - > Mixer - - - - - > wasabi/samurai - - - - - > Hardware wallet/Destination

I have downloaded Wasabi but have never used it before. Why do you suggest Wasabi be used in addition to the Mixer?

I suggest the use of it for total anonymity cause the maybe some mistake from mixing company ending.

Quote from: Avery_39 on August 28, 2020, 05:14:50 AM

To safely receive coins from the mixer, can't a Trezor be used in conjunction with a VPN?

Using VPN with Trezor is completely useless because Trezor is not privacy wallet and you should be fine if you follow the process I posted earlier.

Quote from: bitmover on August 27, 2020, 08:03:12 PM

Quote from: hulla on August 27, 2020, 06:53:38 PM

Thats why it important to use reputable mixing company with the inclusion of privacy wallet like wasabi/samurai should enough to have total anonymity and was what theymos advised either i.e
Software wallet (Electrum) - - - - - > Mixer - - - - - > wasabi/samurai - - - - - > Hardware wallet/Destination

I am recommending him not to have total anonymity in all his coins. Because that might become a problem in the future.

Being fully anonymous may not be what he wishes. It is good to have that option, but that comes with a risk also.

If fully anonymous wasnt what he wish for he wont have question the way he put his statement. What could come with risk?

Karartma1

legendary

Activity: 2310

Merit: 1422

Avery_39 you can never be fully anonymous. Don't fool yourself on this: you can take all the necessary steps to try to be as anonymous as possible but you will never reach 100%

Having said that I suggest you look into:

Wasabi wallet

https://medium.com/@keratichop/how-to-use-wasabi-wallet-coinjoin-guide-3102f8cc5d3c

Samourai Wallet

https://medium.com/samourai-wallet/diving-head-first-into-whirlpool-anonymity-sets-4156a54b0bc7

Before making any move try to reach a level of confidence with the matter, otherwise you are only going to do a big mess.

If you don't feel comfortable mixing coins yourself then use mixers but do your own research before using them and try to compare them.
My 2 sats for you.

Topic: Best Method: How to mix - the entire process (Read 280 times)