Best way to mix bitcoins - page 2. | Bitcointalksearch.org

Iyanjr

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Quote from: Wind_FURY on December 18, 2019, 02:16:51 AM

Quote from: figmentofmyass on December 17, 2019, 06:20:20 PM

Quote from: Wind_FURY on December 17, 2019, 04:37:11 AM

Quote from: BitcoinsGreat on December 16, 2019, 11:13:51 AM

I have recently mixed 10$ at https://bitcoinmixer.org/ as a part of the testing process and found that site to be a good one. The best thing about this site is that it is cheap to mix the coins there and the process is very very fast, if you choose the instant option. Based on my experience, i will recommend https://bitcoinmixer.org/ for mixing the bitcoins.

Third party trust are security holes. How do you know that the service didn't log anything that can be traced back to you? How do you know that it's not operated by bad actors?

cutting out middlemen and tumbling at the protocol level is obviously ideal, but we are in a transitional state where coinjoin liquidity is very poor. not only can wasabi wallet's high minimum and large anonymity set leave users waiting around to get their coinjoin done, but it's very obvious that these users are participating in a coinjoin together. in a world of increasingly strict risk-based AML/KYC policies, that may be problematic.

the ideal for coinjoins = much smaller, cascaded anonymity sets where observers can't tell coinjoins are taking place at all. unfortunately, not enough liquidity exists yet for this to be viable on a large scale. i'm hoping that implementation of schnorr signature aggregation will help incentivize more coinjoin liquidity on the network, but it could take years for this to come to fruition.

This is true, liquidity has been a problem with the more non-centralized way of doing things. Like BISQ, it's avoided, users prefer the centralized exchanges.

But what are we here for? What path should we take?

Sorry, but I missed a part where liquidity connects with mixing part of coins/tokens
Could you please describe a process? thx a lot in advance

Wind_FURY

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Quote from: figmentofmyass on December 17, 2019, 06:20:20 PM

Quote from: Wind_FURY on December 17, 2019, 04:37:11 AM

Quote from: BitcoinsGreat on December 16, 2019, 11:13:51 AM

I have recently mixed 10$ at https://bitcoinmixer.org/ as a part of the testing process and found that site to be a good one. The best thing about this site is that it is cheap to mix the coins there and the process is very very fast, if you choose the instant option. Based on my experience, i will recommend https://bitcoinmixer.org/ for mixing the bitcoins.

Third party trust are security holes. How do you know that the service didn't log anything that can be traced back to you? How do you know that it's not operated by bad actors?

cutting out middlemen and tumbling at the protocol level is obviously ideal, but we are in a transitional state where coinjoin liquidity is very poor. not only can wasabi wallet's high minimum and large anonymity set leave users waiting around to get their coinjoin done, but it's very obvious that these users are participating in a coinjoin together. in a world of increasingly strict risk-based AML/KYC policies, that may be problematic.

the ideal for coinjoins = much smaller, cascaded anonymity sets where observers can't tell coinjoins are taking place at all. unfortunately, not enough liquidity exists yet for this to be viable on a large scale. i'm hoping that implementation of schnorr signature aggregation will help incentivize more coinjoin liquidity on the network, but it could take years for this to come to fruition.

This is true, liquidity has been a problem with the more non-centralized way of doing things. Like BISQ, it's avoided, users prefer the centralized exchanges.

But what are we here for? What path should we take?

figmentofmyass

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Quote from: Wind_FURY on December 17, 2019, 04:37:11 AM

Quote from: BitcoinsGreat on December 16, 2019, 11:13:51 AM

I have recently mixed 10$ at https://bitcoinmixer.org/ as a part of the testing process and found that site to be a good one. The best thing about this site is that it is cheap to mix the coins there and the process is very very fast, if you choose the instant option. Based on my experience, i will recommend https://bitcoinmixer.org/ for mixing the bitcoins.

Third party trust are security holes. How do you know that the service didn't log anything that can be traced back to you? How do you know that it's not operated by bad actors?

cutting out middlemen and tumbling at the protocol level is obviously ideal, but we are in a transitional state where coinjoin liquidity is very poor. not only can wasabi wallet's high minimum and large anonymity set leave users waiting around to get their coinjoin done, but it's very obvious that these users are participating in a coinjoin together. in a world of increasingly strict risk-based AML/KYC policies, that may be problematic.

the ideal for coinjoins = much smaller, cascaded anonymity sets where observers can't tell coinjoins are taking place at all. unfortunately, not enough liquidity exists yet for this to be viable on a large scale. i'm hoping that implementation of schnorr signature aggregation will help incentivize more coinjoin liquidity on the network, but it could take years for this to come to fruition.

Ridwan Fauzi

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This thread 2020 List Bitcoin Mixers Bitcoin Tumbler Websites will guide you to choose a bitcoin tumbler/mixing service.

And there are some reviews who made by users which can make easy for you to choose.

Wind_FURY

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Quote from: BitcoinsGreat on December 16, 2019, 11:13:51 AM

I have recently mixed 10$ at https://bitcoinmixer.org/ as a part of the testing process and found that site to be a good one. The best thing about this site is that it is cheap to mix the coins there and the process is very very fast, if you choose the instant option. Based on my experience, i will recommend https://bitcoinmixer.org/ for mixing the bitcoins.

Third party trust are security holes. How do you know that the service didn't log anything that can be traced back to you? How do you know that it's not operated by bad actors?

BitcoinsGreat

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I have recently mixed 10$ at https://bitcoinmixer.org/ as a part of the testing process and found that site to be a good one. The best thing about this site is that it is cheap to mix the coins there and the process is very very fast, if you choose the instant option. Based on my experience, i will recommend https://bitcoinmixer.org/ for mixing the bitcoins.

figmentofmyass

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Quote from: Patatas on December 13, 2019, 05:08:08 PM

You might think people are recommending ChipMixer because they are getting paid for the signature campaigns but from my perspective, you should be using them as they're around for a long time and wouldn't run away with your money. I'm not quite sure how much of anonymity you'd get after using their service but that's something I'll leave someone else to answer. Converting to Monero and back to BTC isn't really mixing your coins the right way.

every method has drawbacks. chipmixer has superior liquidity and excellent tumbling procedure but you must trust them 1. not to keep logs and 2. to custody your funds while using it. in fact, the longer you hold their generated private keys (trusting them not to steal them), the better the privacy guarantees:

Quote

You are free to sweep it yourself, ask us to send it to your address or keep it on chip for a while. Only the last option keeps your funds vunerable to our dishonesty, but it also extends your privacy. If you sweep funds from chip in first 12h after your input, you receive same privacy as you would get from standard mixer. If you trust us (as you already did when you sent coins into mixer) and spend chip when you need it, then you achive maximum privacy you can get.

theymos made a guide about mixing earlier this year and swapping to monero was his #2 choice. it's probably the most expensive option if using instant exchangers.

one drawback of wasabi wallet is that it's blatantly obvious you are using a coinjoin because it enforces a 100-anonymity set. another is the ~0.1BTC minimum. it's definitely cheaper than swapping to monero though.

Patatas

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Quote from: bmeyersbtc on December 12, 2019, 02:56:31 AM

I would like to know the best way to mix bitcoins. So far, I have read about converting to monero and then back to btc, I have read about using exodus wallet and then also seen the service of blender.io. I am not sure which service to use as it has been a very long time now since I have used a tumbling service, I would like to know which would be best to use.

You might think people are recommending ChipMixer because they are getting paid for the signature campaigns but from my perspective, you should be using them as they're around for a long time and wouldn't run away with your money. I'm not quite sure how much of anonymity you'd get after using their service but that's something I'll leave someone else to answer. Converting to Monero and back to BTC isn't really mixing your coins the right way.

stomachgrowls

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Quote from: figmentofmyass on December 13, 2019, 04:37:33 PM

Quote from: pooya87 on December 13, 2019, 10:37:57 AM

Quote from: figmentofmyass on December 13, 2019, 05:03:01 AM

https://flyp.me/en/

i've used them before, no complaints. instant and no account registration.

it seems like a good service. do you know what kind of fee they are charging (or maybe adding on top of their prices silently)? i've checked a couple of their prices and it seems like it is higher by about 1.8% to 1.9% compared to prices on Binance for the same coins.

that sounds about right. i've seen it fluctuate between 1-2% over binance.

i guess that's the price we pay for the privilege of not needing accounts, and not worrying about elliptic, cyphertrace, et al.

you also don't need to pay the typical exchange withdrawal fee (eg 0.0005 BTC at binance) which claws back a bit of the profits taken by instant exchangers like flyp.me.

Not bad even if they do have that fee amount yet you wont be hassled into those things like creating accounts etc. First time on hearing Flyp.me
Just to ask if this service would accept deposits from contract address like from exchangers or other wallet platforms?
I do have horrible experience wayback with shapeshift for my deposit didnt push through.

figmentofmyass

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Quote from: pooya87 on December 13, 2019, 10:37:57 AM

Quote from: figmentofmyass on December 13, 2019, 05:03:01 AM

https://flyp.me/en/

i've used them before, no complaints. instant and no account registration.

it seems like a good service. do you know what kind of fee they are charging (or maybe adding on top of their prices silently)? i've checked a couple of their prices and it seems like it is higher by about 1.8% to 1.9% compared to prices on Binance for the same coins.

that sounds about right. i've seen it fluctuate between 1-2% over binance.

i guess that's the price we pay for the privilege of not needing accounts, and not worrying about elliptic, cyphertrace, et al.

you also don't need to pay the typical exchange withdrawal fee (eg 0.0005 BTC at binance) which claws back a bit of the profits taken by instant exchangers like flyp.me.

DoublerHunter

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Quote from: bmeyersbtc on December 13, 2019, 04:30:47 AM

is Exodus safe?

^ Probably as of now I will consider that wallet belongs to the safer wallet but I will not hold my cryptocurrency assets there in the long run.
Try to visit this link to view more tumbling sites services offered, https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/2023-list-bitcoin-mixers-bitcoin-tumblers-websites-2827109. It looks like updated timely by the OP because I saw newly bitcoin mixer sites.

Quote from: bmeyersbtc on December 13, 2019, 04:30:47 AM

I am thinking of using Monero to wasabi to chipmixer to new bitcoin wallet?

is this a good route to go for bitcoin anonymity?

^ Yes you can, but you will also suffer the fees or probably compute it which better cheaper and less hassle.

ser7878

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Quote from: CryptoBry on December 12, 2019, 05:03:59 AM

I have never used any mixing strategies or any mixing service provider for that matter as I am seeing no need on my part of adopting the same. Just curious: Why you think you should be doing some mixing or using a mixing site? Is it because you are hiding something, a very common assumption? Or you are just so concern about your privacy and that you are not allowing anyone including the governmental forces to see your Bitcoin trails? Please share...

I guess he wants to be as private as possible (for any reason he wants)
But also wise mixing can be quite profitable

pooya87

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Quote from: figmentofmyass on December 13, 2019, 05:03:01 AM

Quote from: bmeyersbtc on December 13, 2019, 04:30:47 AM

What's the best way to get bitcoins to monero and then back to bitcoins? is Exodus safe?

https://flyp.me/en/

i've used them before, no complaints. instant and no account registration.

it seems like a good service. do you know what kind of fee they are charging (or maybe adding on top of their prices silently)? i've checked a couple of their prices and it seems like it is higher by about 1.8% to 1.9% compared to prices on Binance for the same coins.

Wind_FURY

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Quote from: tomahawk9 on December 12, 2019, 06:14:14 AM

I found a topic created by Theymos where he suggests to use two mixing methods. Interestingly enough, mixers/tumblers are not in this small list.

[Guide] Decent mixing methods

Because centralized mixing services are 3rd party security holes.

In JoinMarket, you can be a liquidity provider and earn Bitcoins in form of fees, https://joinmarket.me/

figmentofmyass

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Quote from: bmeyersbtc on December 13, 2019, 04:30:47 AM

What's the best way to get bitcoins to monero and then back to bitcoins? is Exodus safe?

https://flyp.me/en/

i've used them before, no complaints. instant and no account registration.

i would avoid swapping to monero and directly back to bitcoin. to make it harder to trace, you should layer in a few monero transactions before exchanging for bitcoin again. that way, not even flyp.me will recognize your inputs.

i know that exodus use(d) shapeshift for their built-in exchange, and that shapeshift started requiring KYC. i'm not sure how that affected things.

bmeyersbtc

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What's the best way to get bitcoins to monero and then back to bitcoins? is Exodus safe? I don't have an Iphone so cakewallet wouldn't be an option.

I am thinking of using Monero to wasabi to chipmixer to new bitcoin wallet?

is this a good route to go for bitcoin anonymity?

joniboini

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Quote from: cabron on December 12, 2019, 05:02:07 PM

Would it be a over kill if you use wasabi and then monero and then back to your wallet for an extra precaution?

Maybe not.

IMO it's difficult to know exactly what is enough. Maybe you don't leave any trace online but somebody places some keylogger on your device so that's it.

gentlemand

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Quote from: cabron on December 12, 2019, 05:02:07 PM

It may be mixed but then people can trace that the BTC comes from an exchange. It serves but that will still be an issue if the person is going to be traced deliberately when the BTC comes from a known exchange address.

Yes. It's not proper mixing. All I'm interested in is making sure future transactions can't be traced back to my original wallet by any old creep having a look. I don't care if they know it's from an exchange and I don't care about the exchange itself knowing the original address.

If I were a paedo, drug dealer or thief then my approach would have to be totally different.

cabron

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Would it be a over kill if you use wasabi and then monero and then back to your wallet for an extra precaution?

Quote from: gentlemand on December 12, 2019, 04:40:17 PM

Quote from: alyssa85 on December 12, 2019, 06:35:30 AM

Converting to an alt and then back is an excellent way to mix bitcoins. Use an exchange, so that the sending wallet which sends out your bitcoins has a diferent address to the one you used to deposit the coins.

There's no need to do the alt bit if you're using an exchange. Send Bitcoin. Withdraw Bitcoin. It's pretty much guaranteed to come from a totally unrelated wallet to the one you sent it to. If you buy an alt in the middle bit you're just wasting fees and moving around the exchange's internal ledger.

That's not much use if the BTC you want to mix is involved in something against the exchange's terms and conditions like gambling but fine for straightforward breaking the link between old and new addresses for future privacy. You still don't want to be doing anything against their terms if you plan on using them again though.

It may be mixed but then people can trace that the BTC comes from an exchange. It serves but that will still be an issue if the person is going to be traced deliberately when the BTC comes from a known exchange address.

gentlemand

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Quote from: alyssa85 on December 12, 2019, 06:35:30 AM

Converting to an alt and then back is an excellent way to mix bitcoins. Use an exchange, so that the sending wallet which sends out your bitcoins has a diferent address to the one you used to deposit the coins.

There's no need to do the alt bit if you're using an exchange. Send Bitcoin. Withdraw Bitcoin. It's pretty much guaranteed to come from a totally unrelated wallet to the one you sent it to. If you buy an alt in the middle bit you're just wasting fees and moving around the exchange's internal ledger.

That's not much use if the BTC you want to mix is involved in something against the exchange's terms and conditions like gambling but fine for straightforward breaking the link between old and new addresses for future privacy. You still don't want to be doing anything against their terms if you plan on using them again though.

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