[BETA]Bitfinex.com first Bitcoin P2P lending platform for leverage trading - page 17.

myself

legendary

Activity: 938

Merit: 1000

chaos is fun...…damental :)

Quote from: molecular on April 25, 2013, 11:48:09 AM

Quote from: wamatt on April 25, 2013, 02:44:27 AM

Quote from: molecular on April 25, 2013, 01:29:16 AM

I have some favorable loans used in a long position (85%). I would like to close the position but keep the loans. Is that possible somehow?

I would love to know too. I heard you can swap loans out for better ones. But I haven't figure out how to do that yet...

I know how to do this one: all on the lending page: just borrow more and cancel the loans used in your position. Make sure to have enough unused borrowed funds available. They will automatically replace the missing need.

Still don't know how to avoid unused borrowed funds being given back automatically.

there is a thread about that topic here https://community.bitfinex.com/showthread.php/57-Return-the-loan-when-position-is-closed-or-not

currently when you close the position you give back the loans there is no way to keep the loans

molecular

donator

Activity: 2772

Merit: 1019

Quote from: myself on April 25, 2013, 04:26:30 AM

Quote from: fiaskow on April 25, 2013, 04:10:41 AM

Quote from: molecular on April 25, 2013, 01:29:16 AM

I have some favorable loans used in a long position (85%). I would like to close the position but keep the loans. Is that possible somehow?

I've assumed that that would be the case, but apparently not! I had loans at various rates, with the lowest rates being the first ones I took out. When I closed a fraction of my trading positions later, it closed the more favourable loans as well (a 50% loan, 30 days), leaving the rest of the position with the more unfavourable loans (200%+ loans)! In my opinion this should not happen and the funds should remain available to me, not closed out. Seems like it closes loans in a FIFO fashion, thats why I lost the older, more favourable loans.

go to https://bitfinex.com/credit then Borrowed funds used in a margin position and click on the loan you want to close

I think you misunderstand. I don't want to close or replace a loan. I want to keep it from auto-closing when I reduce my long position. I had >$4000 in 50% and 85% loans. By reducing my positions these got partly closed and I was (about 2 days ago) stuck with having to borrow at whooping 500% or whatever insane rate (which I didn't do). I would've loved to be able to use my old unclosed loans.

I would've expected the borrowed funds to move from "borrowed funds used in position" to "unused borrowed funds" when I reduce the position. This is not the case, the loans get automatically closed.

molecular

donator

Activity: 2772

Merit: 1019

Quote from: wamatt on April 25, 2013, 02:44:27 AM

Quote from: molecular on April 25, 2013, 01:29:16 AM

I have some favorable loans used in a long position (85%). I would like to close the position but keep the loans. Is that possible somehow?

I would love to know too. I heard you can swap loans out for better ones. But I haven't figure out how to do that yet...

I know how to do this one: all on the lending page: just borrow more and cancel the loans used in your position. Make sure to have enough unused borrowed funds available. They will automatically replace the missing need.

Still don't know how to avoid unused borrowed funds being given back automatically.

myself

legendary

Activity: 938

Merit: 1000

chaos is fun...…damental :)

Quote from: Ploo on April 25, 2013, 10:45:59 AM

I'm aware of the need for collateral. I'm confused by why I'm borrowing coins if I've got some of my own. Why aren't the coins to my name not being sold off before more are borrowed on margin? Isn't the point of going short to have your position be all USD?

because if the market goes up also margin balance goes up so u dont get forced liquidated so fast this way you have a buffer for market fluctuations

Ploo

full member

Activity: 125

Merit: 100

Quote from: Freakshow on April 25, 2013, 10:41:29 AM

Quote from: Ploo on April 25, 2013, 10:37:53 AM

Take this scenario - I have 100 BTC and 0 USD in my trading wallet. If I try to go short it seems that I'm borrowing bitcoins to sell even though I've already got some. If I wanted to short all my coins I'd have to move them to the exchange wallet, sell them and move back the USD. Am I missing something here?

Ya the fact that you need "Collateral" in order to trade on margin! Those coins are protecting us lenders from you blowing all your funds and more.. If you want to trade on Margin, you have to BORROW coins & money. otherwise use the exchange and you don't need to worry about it.

I'm aware of the need for collateral. I'm confused by why I'm borrowing coins if I've got some of my own. Why aren't the coins to my name not being sold off before more are borrowed on margin? Isn't the point of going short to have your position be all USD?

Freakshow

newbie

Activity: 10

Merit: 0

Quote from: Ploo on April 25, 2013, 10:37:53 AM

Take this scenario - I have 100 BTC and 0 USD in my trading wallet. If I try to go short it seems that I'm borrowing bitcoins to sell even though I've already got some. If I wanted to short all my coins I'd have to move them to the exchange wallet, sell them and move back the USD. Am I missing something here?

Ya the fact that you need "Collateral" in order to trade on margin! Those coins are protecting us lenders from you blowing all your funds and more.. If you want to trade on Margin, you have to BORROW coins & money. otherwise use the exchange and you don't need to worry about it.

Freakshow

newbie

Activity: 10

Merit: 0

Yes, it is a challenging task. Some of us have still managed to make it work and make money tho anyways.

While, I'll admit I have a hard time getting my orders processed sometimes, I always use BFX for routing. Gox is just to expensive at the price we are at these days. I hope that the liquidity will be better once bitstamp is included in the mix.

Freakshow

Ploo

full member

Activity: 125

Merit: 100

Take this scenario - I have 100 BTC and 0 USD in my trading wallet. If I try to go short it seems that I'm borrowing bitcoins to sell even though I've already got some. If I wanted to short all my coins I'd have to move them to the exchange wallet, sell them and move back the USD. Am I missing something here?

Ichthyo

hero member

Activity: 602

Merit: 500

Quote from: unclescrooge on April 25, 2013, 06:14:26 AM

There is no option to route to Mtgox. You cannot place an order on Mtgox orderbook from Bitfinex for technical reasons (orders get lost, and we don't want that).

Thats unfortunate, but understandable from the technical reasons.
It would be way more dangerous if some trader relied on a hard order at Mt.Gox to protect the position and this order would just be dropped.

But can we hope to get similar hard routed orders at Bitstamp?
The lack of hard orders on a larger (more liquid) market makes day trading quite a challenging task at times, since the spread is always working against you.

myself

legendary

Activity: 938

Merit: 1000

chaos is fun...…damental :)

Quote from: wamatt on April 25, 2013, 06:24:24 AM

Ok, that's a pity. I realize the order ID could be a problem. But maybe that's fixed in the V2 API?

afaik the only difference from v1 to v2 is the authentication method

wamatt

member

Activity: 85

Merit: 10

Quote from: unclescrooge on April 25, 2013, 06:14:26 AM

So for precision:

Order not routed or routed blank are executed against Mtgox and BFX orders, whichever has the most interesting price.
Order routed to Bitfinex are executed against BFX orders of course.

There is no option to route to Mtgox. You cannot place an order on Mtgox orderbook from Bitfinex for technical reasons (orders get lost, and we don't want that).

Let me know if it clarifies things?

Quote from: myself on April 25, 2013, 06:16:21 AM

hi, i just want to add that your orders never got up on mtgox books we did try to do that using what we call "hard orders" but mtgox sometimes failed to provide order ID so that feature got cancelled https://community.bitfinex.com/showthread.php/93-Hard-orders

Ok, that's a pity. I realize the order ID could be a problem. But maybe that's fixed in the V2 API?

Also I suppose "blank" routing is usually the 'best', and BFX lower fee's are great. However, there are times when hard routing to mtGox can be useful for better timing on market swings.

wamatt

member

Activity: 85

Merit: 10

Quote from: myself on April 25, 2013, 04:40:02 AM

hi, i will like to remember to all user that they can rotate loans, here is a short example

1 lets say you have 100 USD in loans at 20%
2 said loans will show up under Borrowed funds used in a margin position
3 now from the borrowing table you need to borrow another 100 USD at lower rate lets say 15%
4 the new cheaper loans will show up under Unused borrowed funds
5 now you only need to click close on the expensive loan under Borrowed funds used in a margin position and the cheaper loans will used for your position

make sure you always have a same or superior amount or you will have a partial liquidation of your position

Thanks. That's handy

myself

legendary

Activity: 938

Merit: 1000

chaos is fun...…damental :)

Quote from: fiaskow on April 25, 2013, 04:52:16 AM

Side question:

The 'Route Order' functionality is not clear in the UI. You can either:

Not Route Order = Executed on Bitfinex?
Route order -> blank = Executed on Mt Gox?
Route Order -> Bitfinex = Executed on Bitfinex?

blank route=> execute against best price
BFX route=> execute only on BFX

myself

legendary

Activity: 938

Merit: 1000

chaos is fun...…damental :)

hi, i just want to add that your orders never got up on mtgox books we did try to do that using what we call "hard orders" but mtgox sometimes failed to provide order ID so that feature got cancelled https://community.bitfinex.com/showthread.php/93-Hard-orders

unclescrooge

hero member

Activity: 868

Merit: 1000

Quote from: wamatt on April 25, 2013, 05:59:05 AM

Hey guys.. anyone know why MTGOX is not a routing option?

It seems my orders are only being executed on BFX. They are not showing up in the MT Gox Order Book. Huh

EDIT:
Just for clarity, I put a margin Buy order in, and it doesn't show up on MT Gox.

Hello,

So for precision:

Order not routed or routed blank are executed against Mtgox and BFX orders, whichever has the most interesting price.

Order routed to Bitfinex are executed against BFX orders of course.

There is no option to route to Mtgox. You cannot place an order on Mtgox orderbook from Bitfinex for technical reasons (orders get lost, and we don't want that).

Let me know if it clarifies things?

Raphael
Bitfinex team

wamatt

member

Activity: 85

Merit: 10

Quote from: myself on April 25, 2013, 04:23:34 AM

Quote from: wamatt on April 25, 2013, 03:44:02 AM

Oh really.. I think I remember holding a few loans without any active positions and both my swap and P/L was $0.0. So how is that possible? Essentially I was locking up loans, but not being charged...

ofc the P/L is 0 if you dont have a position but if you took a loan you are still charged check your history

Ok. The thing is.. I assumed the loan charge was called the "swap". Is that not correct? The reason I bring this up is that my swap was also 0, not only my P/L.

wamatt

member

Activity: 85

Merit: 10

Hey guys.. anyone know why MTGOX is not a routing option?

It seems my orders are only being executed on BFX. They are not showing up in the MT Gox Order Book. Huh

EDIT:
Just for clarity, I put a margin Buy order in, and it doesn't show up on MT Gox.

fiaskow

newbie

Activity: 23

Merit: 0

Quote from: myself on April 25, 2013, 04:40:02 AM

hi, i will like to remember to all user that they can rotate loans, here is a short example

1 lets say you have 100 USD in loans at 20%
2 said loans will show up under Borrowed funds used in a margin position
3 now from the borrowing table you need to borrow another 100 USD at lower rate lets say 15%
4 the new cheaper loans will show up under Unused borrowed funds
5 now you only need to click close on the expensive loan under Borrowed funds used in a margin position and the cheaper loans will used for your position

make sure you always have a same or superior amount or you will have a partial liquidation of your position

Hi thanks for this. I did figure this out after experimentation and I'm rotating my current 400% loans to cheaper ones at around 150%.

But still,
1. I had 50% loans that where closed with the partial liquidation.
2. I needed to add funds (from my BTC wallet) to the margin account in order to take out a new loan before closing the old (rotating loans) one as my margin was already used up.

Otherwise, I'm relatively happy with the platform. You learn these things as you go. School fees, you know.

Side question:

The 'Route Order' functionality is not clear in the UI. You can either:

Not Route Order = Executed on Bitfinex?
Route order -> blank = Executed on Mt Gox?
Route Order -> Bitfinex = Executed on Bitfinex?

myself

legendary

Activity: 938

Merit: 1000

chaos is fun...…damental :)

hi, i will like to remember to all user that they can rotate loans, here is a short example

1 lets say you have 100 USD in loans at 20%
2 said loans will show up under Borrowed funds used in a margin position
3 now from the borrowing table you need to borrow another 100 USD at lower rate lets say 15%
4 the new cheaper loans will show up under Unused borrowed funds
5 now you only need to click close on the expensive loan under Borrowed funds used in a margin position and the cheaper loans will used for your position

make sure you always have a same or superior amount or you will have a partial liquidation of your position

myself

legendary

Activity: 938

Merit: 1000

chaos is fun...…damental :)

Quote from: fiaskow on April 25, 2013, 04:10:41 AM

Quote from: molecular on April 25, 2013, 01:29:16 AM

I have some favorable loans used in a long position (85%). I would like to close the position but keep the loans. Is that possible somehow?

I've assumed that that would be the case, but apparently not! I had loans at various rates, with the lowest rates being the first ones I took out. When I closed a fraction of my trading positions later, it closed the more favourable loans as well (a 50% loan, 30 days), leaving the rest of the position with the more unfavourable loans (200%+ loans)! In my opinion this should not happen and the funds should remain available to me, not closed out. Seems like it closes loans in a FIFO fashion, thats why I lost the older, more favourable loans.

go to https://bitfinex.com/credit then Borrowed funds used in a margin position and click on the loan you want to close

Topic: [BETA]Bitfinex.com first Bitcoin P2P lending platform for leverage trading - page 17. (Read 137528 times)