Topic: Betcoin.ag is trying to scam me off my 7,7k USD BALANCE *RESOLVED* (Read 692 times)

You can lock the thread by clicking lock topic on the down side of this threadtopic.

I got my initial deposit back a few hours ago.

Everyone can make up his own mind, but these are facts regarding this case:

- Betcoin.ag has failed to prove that I have violated their Terms of Service
- Betcoin.ag has failed to prove to me and other people asking, that they are currently holding an active license
- Betcoin.ag has been very generous with me by returning my initial deposit, in case I should have violated their Terms of Service (I will repeat myself, I have not)

Be very careful who you play with.

Moderator, please lock this thread.

It was my mistake mate, my post meant to address betcoin representative, not you are Hhampuz.

In another post, betcoin representative wrote '' as your little bot scam doesn't work on us.''

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.62424846

Betcoin.ag has offered me to provide me with my initial deposit as they were not able to confirm multiple accounts.
I have accepted this offer as I am not interested in involving a third party mediator as this process would take ages.
Will let you know once I got the crypto.

Okay, two things to be straigtened up. One, you addressed the wrong person. Hhampuz --or me, but I think you're referring to Hhampuz and happened to quote me on your way-- so far, has not accused OP of using scanning service or bots. Two, if I may assume your post meant to be address to betcoin's representative, they're not accusing OP of "using a scanning service, later for the use of bots to place bets" in a sense that they changed their narrative of counter-accusation. They stood by their initial suspicion that OP utilized scanning service and would give his account a thorough swept to see if he had any other account and/or previous record of abuse that'll determine their next course of action.

Any mention close to the use of bots is this one,


and that refers to the scanner.

Either post proofs or stop accusing him.

So far you accused him firstly that he was using a scanning service, later for the use of bots to place bets, what's next?

You are not in my situation.
But I can see your point and I will practice myself in patience, thank you for the hint.

An abuser exercising patience rather than making ludicrous demands while riling up the usual suspects around this forum to sway the public opinion and/or start a witch hunt?

I've been on read-only mode for this thread since yesterday and actually wanted to pass for this case but, uhh... OP, would you perhaps consider to exercise some patience? It's barely 12 hours from your change of decision from contacting 3rd party mediator to a proposed alternate resolution, where you gave them 7 days [that's just two posts above mine], so... perhaps wait a little, they're still within the timeframe you gave them yourself. Not to mention that consecutive posts is highly frowned by the mods of the forum.

Hey guys,

no updates for now regarding their license situation.
Still also waiting for their resolution offer. I have made another step in their direction via mail and stated that I am open to find a resolution together as I want to get behind this.

Keeping you guys updated daily.

In this case, I will stay away from involving a 3rd party mediator.
Provide me as offered with a fair resolution within the next seven working days.

Checking their website, it seems they are currently operating without a license and he's been skipping the question since yesterday. It's important for any casino to answer this type of question promptly.

If you are operating without a license at the moment let players know. You might be a reputable casino is the past but that doesn't allow you to not address concerns like this!

So, tell us if you have a license....

Wyy don't you reply about the license situation? Where is the link to your license page?

If it doesn't exist that means you don't have a license.

If you would like to consult a 3rd party mediator, please let us know now, and we will communicate with the mediator only, going forward.  Everything that we have said prior about you getting the deposit back, as long as there are not multiple accounts will be null and void. We do not lose mediation, as we do not suspend an account without clear evidence of abuse. You will be subject to withholding of the entire balance, going forward. You get 1 mediator, so pick a good one! Please let us know what you have decided, as once our resolution is complete, the matter will be closed.

I am considering to involve an independent 3rd party mediator in this case.
Would you agree on providing them with a proof of your accusations against me (as you do not want to provide it to me directly)?

I see 3 other accusations on the first 6 pages. The first was resolved promptly, according to the player. The 2nd and 3rd were provable multi-accounting violations, 1 which was decided in our favor by a 3rd party mediator and 1 which the player didn't bother to follow up, as he knew he was guilty. If you want people to trust you, stop lying to them. No one has confiscated any money from you, as of right now. We have stated that you are in violation of terms and that we are reviewing the severity prior to resolving. I can tell you that with certainly, we are well within our rights to confiscate your entire balance, per the terms of service you agreed to upon signup. However, as we have stated, that is only done in the case of a previous violation. If this is your first offense, we hope that we have shown you that it is not worth returning, as your little bot scam doesn't work on us.

Regarding our relationship with this community, you are wrong again. Unlike you, we are daily participants here, and as was shown above, we are one of the oldest and most trusted books on the forum.

Regarding our relationship with SBR, you are wrong once again. When they offered mediation on offshore books, we were in compliance with 100% of their decisions. Only one of their decisions went against us and it was because although were were able to prove that the player was in the wrong, SBR does not support confiscating the entire balance. They asked that we instead confiscate the winnings, which we agreed to. This is why he told you to take the deposit and run. He doesn't agree with our TOS, that we can confiscate the entire balance, however that rule is rarely used, only in cases where cheaters, like yourself, feel the need to keep coming back.

So to sum it up for everyone:
Betcoin.ag says I have done something which lead to a confiscation of my balance worth 0.291187 BTC (0.2036 BTC deposit, 0.087587 BTC profit). Betcoin.ag has invested hundreds of thousand of dollars in developing their system and is not able to explain how this system has identified me as a bettor potentially using third party software as it would allow new ways to cheat.

Betoin.ag pretends to have an exceptional relationship with BitcoinTalk, despite on the last six scam accusation pages here we have five major complaints against them.

Betcoin.ag pretends to have an exceptional relationship with SBR, despite the head of SBR just confirmed that their current practice in this case is theft/scamming.
The relationship and their system is so good that they have never demonstrated the use of their system to SBR despite being asked about this from their site aswell.
https://www.sportsbookreview.com/forum/sportsbooks-industry/3727552-betcoin-ag-trying-scam-me-my-7-7k-usd-balance.html#post31198968

I think tomorrow Betcoin.ag will tell us that planet earth is flat.

Stay far away from this company. You will face major issues with them if you win a little bigger.

In the history of BitcoinTalk scam accusations, no one has ever said "show me the evidence" and then been shown the evidence and admitted fault. Oddly enough, they just use the evidence to find new ways to claim they are not guilty! We don't provide cheaters with the information they need to find new ways to cheat. We have not spent many years and many hundreds of thousands of dollars developing this system so that we can bust it out for the first cheater who says "show me the evidence". We have thousands of people each month who are winning far more than you have, who don't have an issue. We have an exceptional relationship with SBR and an exceptional relationship with the BitcoinTalk community. You are the outlier. Learn from this, because if you keep trying to exploit bitcoin sportsbooks, it will happen every time. We will contact you within 7 business days with a resolution.

Prove it, we are all waiting for it. As this is confirmed from your side, this really should not be a big deal.
Prove it once and for all to the thousands of people I have informed about your practices now on multiple forums.

Until you have failed to do that and as the majority here and also Optional from SBR has pointed out, this is a try of theft/scamming.
Theft is illegal in every country of this planet.

We have told you twice that the review will take up to 7 business days. So far, it has been 0 business days. If you don't want to be in positions like this, stop cheating sportsbooks. That part is confirmed. Now, we will now be spending the necessary time to verify that this was your first account at Betcoin. There are a variety of methods used for this, and they can take some time. We certainly did not want to have to do this. Hopefully you and your ilk will learn one day, how to play fair. We will inform you by email of our decision, within 7 business days.

Another 12 hours+ have passed without any further details from Betcoin.ag despite they have been online.
Still waiting for the details that leaded to their decision that I was using a detection software when making those live tennis bets.

Meanwhile, getting more and more support not only here but also in other forums.
Optional from SBR (that is like the major figure when it comes to gambling, not a sports bettor, but a person who is trying to negotiate in problematic situations with bookmakers and gamblers with major experience) even made a statement clearly stating that if Betcoin.ag do not refund me my money, he considers this a a theft/scamming.
https://www.sportsbookreview.com/forum/sportsbooks-industry/3727552-betcoin-ag-trying-scam-me-my-7-7k-usd-balance.html#post31198968

Coingambling - The only reason that I'm jumping in here is that you linked this thread from mine. I rarely stray from my thread. It looks like your account is just under review right now. I'm not taking a side either way at this point but will mention what other guides say about Betcoin.

If you look at the bottom of the 2nd page here https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/1-ratings-of-bitcoin-sportsbooks-since-2014-kyc-rankings-bonuses-scam-accus-717790 , you'll find other resources. I'll post it below. All the guides are pretty much in agreement that Nitrobetting and Betcoin are rated #1 or #2. Emotions understandably run high in these types of disputes but I wouldn't worry too much at this point.

Other sources:


Current rating guide by 100bookies https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/rating-of-top-20-cryptocurrency-sportsbooks-5158369 https://100bookies.com/cryptocurrency-sportsbooks-eng/
Current rating guide by cryptogamingrevu https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/crypto-gaming-revu-sportsbooks-and-casinos-handicapping-bonuses-5419723 https://cryptogamingrevu.com/
Ratings by Bitedge https://bitedge.com/crypto-sportsbook-reviews/#top-crypto-sportsbooks
Old rating thread by RyanK https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/bitcoin-sports-betting-review-best-btc-sportsbooks-2018-customer-feedback-577102
Old rating thread by Frue Greeds https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/sports-book-rankings-completely-user-generated-1820529

This includes all rating sportsbook guides here at bitcointalk. It's not selective.

If the company is an EOOD, it must be Bulgarian or at least registered in Bulgaria.but not having a Curacao license will make it difficult for the lawyer

I would like to comment on this aswell.
I have taken myself the time now and checked the last six scam accusation pages on Bitcointalk.
On these six pages, the name of your company came across five times. With the amount of bookmakers out there, this is quite a major percentage.
So you are in no position anymore to say you have a reputation "as one of the most trusted bitcoin sportsbooks".

I am not able to speak on these other cases of course, I am sure people do wrong staff.
But I can speak for myself and I have never violated your Terms of Services, your accusations are simply lies and by now, no proof was shown from your side what could have valid leave the impression that I am using any software.

Whether the amount is 7k$ or less does not matter because it is unacceptable to freeze any player's money without clear violation and providing evidence.

Also I find it suspicious to ask for KYC after you won the bet, why didn't they ask for it when they first registered?

Also, if they say that you used a scanning program, they should provide proof that you are actually using a scanning program. It is better to put it in this thread for everyone to see.

I do not fully agree here.
I am trying to find someone who can valid proof to me he got paid out a five figure USD amount by this company yet after having won money.
We do not have any information regarding their liquidity structure. Only because they are around for some time now does not mean that 7,7k USD is not major money to them. How do we know that they have not have been running break even after all their costs over the past years?

TOS violation should be punished, no doubt about that.
But TOS violation should be proven first.

I would like to ask Bitcointalk to block Betcoin.ag from anymore posting/advertising for now after this post.

Everyone reading can see now:
- First and most important: the company has still completely failed to provide any reasoning on how they came to the conclussion that I have violated their Terms&Conditons despite asked by me and even other individuals now.
Please provide everyone reading with the bets, the prices, the time they were placed and explain how you came to the conclusion I have used a software detecting those.

- The company is trying to take the "wind out of the sail" by now "analysing for 7 days" whatever
- The company talks about "taking" my 0.1 BTC while they are actually withoding 0.29187 BTC of my balance
- The company has still failed to provide us with a link where we can see they are still having a license.
I have done some research myself and so far found out that the company behind Betcoin is Global Limited Holding EOOD. Because of the legal form of the company, it is very likely that they have their roots in Bulgaria. This may allow me to fill a lawsuit against the company regarding the confiscated amount they took without any proof from me but also the mental damage I am taking out of this proofless accusation.

I see that I am receiving great support not only in this post but also via direct messages.
Thanks a lot to everyone!

Stay far away from this bookmaker, when you win significant amounts of money you will not get paid, they will scam you, try to rob not only your winnings but also your deposit and can not even back up their claims with a valid basis.

So do you have a licence or don't you?

Any casino licensed by the Curacao e-Gaming Licensing Authority must display a badge on its website to indicate that it is licensed. It must also provide a link on the website to its license page on the official Curacao e-Gaming Licensing Authority website.

You don't provide a link to the license page, so we have to assume you are working without a license. If you cannot show the link then you simply don't have it.

Also, everybody know this arbitrage nonsense is utter bs. Where is this even relevant at live bets?

So what is it?

A very old casino will jus take a small amount is not worth it for them. It doesn't make sense for Betcoin.ag  had been around since the price of our coins are less than 10% of its current price.

But casino accusing you of violating their basic TOS will always come down to consequences when it look like you win and run. You violate a gambler's etiquette.

TOS violation is still a violation.

Players can rest assured that we are still in full compliance with the regulations of Curacao. Once the new Betcoin is fully released, we will have an operable validation link, live at new.Betcoin.ag. In the meantime, our reputation as one of the most trusted bitcoin sportsbooks speaks for itself.

This player must be unaware of our reputation, however, because by threatening to go to BitcoinTalk, SBR and arbusers, he was clearly unaware that it is well known that Betcoin is a book that takes a hard stance against bets, which are decided upon and placed by a computer. This has been established multiple times on this and every forum. Fortunately for the industry, many other books are now coming together and sharing tips and technology to detect this same type of behavior. Unfortunately for this player, his remaining time being allowed to do this will be short-lived. None of the other reputable bitcoin sportsbooks on this forum will permit him or players like him.

Regarding this being a "scam accusation", the player needs to review the definition of scam. We did not set out to take his funds. It was not our intention to operate for 10 years just to take his 0.1 BTC in earnings, all the while paying out much more than that, countless times per day. We did not intend to have to spend the next week going through his data, trying to see if he has had previous abusive accounts. We wish we did not have to do this at all. But that's where we are and we have informed the player that a resolution is coming within the next 7 business days. If this is a 1st offense, we can certainly treat it as such, however in these cases, we have to do a full investigation or else previously banned players would have no reason to keep creating new accounts.

As always, players who don't need a robot to tell them who to bet on are welcome to play! Check out the early stages of the new Betcoin at new.betcoin.ag. Thanks and best of luck to all.

They still have the symbole on the bottom of their page but you are not directed to the license provider anymore after clicking on it.
Earlier you were directed to their former license provider now clearly stating that Betcoin.ag´s license has expired as also seen by Beperanf.

Make sense, the curacao gaming license seal with unique link should be in  the website footer. So betcoin.ag is operating without a license then?

Regarding point 1:
They have been smart enough to now delete the hyperlink on their website to the license provider.
Beparanf checked for the license aswell and also saw that their license has expired.

Regarding point 2:
This would be interesting for me aswell. Why have they asked me for the massive amount of KYC (I did not place any bet 12 hours+ before that anymore), got provided with it from my side before closing down my account, accusing me of having done something against their Terms and Conditions.

I am not sure if you understand what account suspension means but it means you are not able to login to your account anymore.
As a consequence, I am not able to see my bets anymore.

Furthemore, I am the one who is getting accused of having done something wrong here so far without mentioning any reasoning for these accusations.
The fact that 4/5 bets were live bets even requires more proof from Betcoin.ag on how they came up with the conclusion that I was using a software here.
I think we would all be interested which software that should actually be. Please provide us with some detailed information how you have identified that those bets were either value bets or detected by a software.

They are accusing me of either
- placing value bets (please provide us with the mathematically prove for each bet for that)
- using banned scanning services (please provide us with the software + screenshots of my markets at that software)

If they are unable to provide any of this in a timely manner (which they wont be able to provide as I have done none of the two and maybe I havent highlighted yet - they only allowed me 60 minutes to do my KYC), this is a clear case of potential robbery and I will not accept it.
Robbery is illegal in every country on this planet. Its a question of principles here and I will fight until I have the money which belongs to me which is the full balance.
Head of SBR has been involved a few minutes ago aswell, continuing tomorrow in more forums with sharing the truth about this bookmaker and their business practice.

I want to make things clear here.
First of all, I have not threatened Betcoin.ag that I would go public. I have simply told them right from the start when the issues with them came across, that I would like to have further information about their company for documentation purposes as I will share my experience with Bitcointalk, Arbusers aswell as SBR as I will strong recommend everyone to stay away from them.

I strongly distance myself from the accusations made by Betcoin.ag and ask for a prove of their accusation.
I can not recall the exact bets I have taken with them as my account is suspended however
- all bets were on major tennis markets (at least ATP challenger or WTA 125+ level).
- 4/5 bets (i might be wrong about the number here) were live bets

With tennis being a dynamic and fast sport, where every 20 seconds a new point is coming up, I am wondering how a software/human brain should calculate and identify value this quickly.

I would like to have a clear explanation from Betcoin, how they came up with the conclusion that these bets were value bets and/or detected by a scanning programm.
This is the most basic part you have to deliver when doing this sort of accusation.

They are trying to scam me of my money without any basis, it is as simple as that.
I would also like to ask Betcoin.ag to provide all of us with a valid link to you license provider where we can see that you are currently still having an active license.

Accusing a player for arbitrage betting is nonsense unless we speak for completely wrong odds/lines etc. No need to mention that you can never be sure if bettor truly arbitrage or not. Those banned scanning services you mentioned provides 100's of potential bets every day. How on earth you are sure that he is arbing? You are not. He could easily searched for best odds in the market and simply chooses you. Is he responsible cause his bets appeared on those scanning services? Obviously not.
 
You can limit him if you don't like his activity but he deserves to be paid every penny.

I'm not trying to defend betcoin.ag and I've nothing to do with them but, unfortunately, it seems like some people are trying to get advantage of the freedom of peach this forum is offering to attack their competitors. I hope this is not the case here.

OP, please provide some proofs to back up your claims, otherwise no one is going to believe you giving that those Accusations ate coming from a newbie account with no reputation.

Can you share a screenshot or a link about this, just curious.

I wonder what it is, usually casinos just use a general term when it comes to reasoning when their "alleged" user uses a banned service, trick, anything that is against them. When in the very first place they can detect it to warn the users first and banned them, but no, they will wait until the alleged user will withdraw, give their personal info as they required then totally banned them. They don't just get the money but their personal information as well

Out of sheer curiosity, would you happen to know the whereabouts of these remarkable arbitrage/value bet scanning services? It's for a super important school project, you know.

It is also noteworthy, that in his private communication with us, he threatened to go to BitcoinTalk, SBR and the arbusers forum about this. This was, of course, after we had already suspended his betting, and determined that he had violated our TOS, but it is certainly noteworthy. He conveniently left the arbusers part out of his post here.  As always, we encourage all players to share their unique experiences with Betcoin.ag, everywhere they can. Especially places like the arbusers forum, where we want it made clear that users of their scanner technology will not be tolerated.  it is unfortunate that some players are still trying to violate the most basic rules (of nearly all sportsbooks). The vast majority of players at Betcoin have an exceptional experience.

you should share the bets you made on betcoin here, since they are claiming it was arbitrage betting

This is really bad news for a gambler. Since your account got suspended even after you followed their instructions, there must be a reason.

Betcoin.AG has already replied here and explained the reason for your account's current status. Now continue the conversation with them, and try to withdraw your funds. And if they have wrongfully withheld your funds without any reason, then definitely add all the proofs against them and post them in this thread.

We can see that an email reply was sent to this player less than 3 hours after he reached out. As has been stated to the player, he is in violation of terms, with regard to using banned scanning services to find and place arbitrage/value bets. We are currently reviewing to determine whether this is the first instance of such or whether he has been warned previously. This will determine how we proceed. Thank you.

Move this on scam accusation board https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=83.0. Gambling board is already flooded by scam accusation already.

Please upload the screenshot as proof. You can use talkimg.com to upload image and send the links here. This is what I hate on some casi o protocol. They will still asked KYC then disable the account afterwards. There’s no use of KYC anymore if user account will just be suspended afterwards. It’s like a KYC theft because it doesn’t change anything on the user case.

I check their license and it’s not really updated but it’s same result with some popular casino here like Stake and Duelbits which means there’s something weong on Curacao license checker because these two casino will surely take care of their license. We will wait for the proof to establish your case.

Hello,

I would like to share my experience regarding Betcoin.ag.
I made a deposit in the past week of 0.2036 BTC (around 5,4k USD).
I placed a few bets on major tennis markets and was able to run up the balance to 0.29187 BTC (around 7,7k USD).
As a consequence, I wanted to withdraw my balance.

After I had submitted my withdrawal request, I was informed earlier today that they want further KYC information from me.
I have provided them with my driving license and a bank statement to verify my identity.

Couple of hours ago I received the information that my account is suspended and I should contact them for further details.
I have done that and so far did not receive any reply.
They are currently holding my balance of 0.29187 BTC (7,7k USD) and have not been able yet to provide me any reason why they do no process my withdrawal.
I have read carefully through their ToC before signing up.

I am therefore asking Betcoin to provide me with detailed reasoning for suspending my account and holding my balance.
I will fill an official complain with SBR in a few minutes.
Keeping you guys updated on how this continues, big red flag from my side here.

Upon checking with their license provider, their license has been suspended.