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Topic: Betsoft Gamings Questionable Behavior, How Should Bitcoin Casinos Respond? (Read 1339 times)

legendary
Activity: 2716
Merit: 2093
Join the world-leading crypto sportsbook NOW!
Bodog/Bovada/Slots.lv dropped jackpot slots kast week.

Just got an email that looks like they have cut all ties:

    Hey xxxxxx,

Please note that we are performing a game library update today.    
    We'd like to apologize for any inconvenience this may cause as we recognize that a number of these games featured progressive jackpots that were very popular with our players. We are exploring options now to replace those jackpot games, please stay tuned for more details later this week.   
    Moving forward, the following games will no longer be available:   
    •   2 Million BC
•   A Night in Paris
•   After Night Falls
•   Arrival
•   At The Movies
•   Aztec Treasures
•   Back in Time
•   Barbary Coast
•   Black Gold
•   Boomanji
•   Common Draw Roulette
•   Dr Jekyll & Mr Hyde
•   Enchanted
•   Event Horizon
•   Fruit Zen
•   Genie's Fortune
•   Gladiator
•   Gold Diggers
•   Gypsy Rose
•   Heist
•   House of Fun
•   It Came From Venus
•   Lost
•   Lucky 7
•   Mad Scientist
•   Madder Scientist
•   Mamma Mia
•   More Gold Diggin'
•   Ned and his Friends
•   Once Upon A Time
•   Paco and the Popping Peppers
•   Pinocchio
•   Puppy Love Plus
•   RockStar
•   Rook's Revenge
•   Royal Reels
•   Safari Sam
•   Seventh Heaven
•   Skratcherz
•   SlotFather
•   SugarPop
•   Sushi Bar
•   The Curious Machine
•   The Exterminator
•   The True Sheriff
•   True Illusions
•   Under the Bed
•   Under the Sea
•   Viking Age
•   Virtual RaceBook
•   Weekend in Vegas
•   Who Spun it?   
    Sincerely,


Bovada Customer Service
[email protected]
1-888-263-0000   

     You are subscribed to promotional mailings. We respect your privacy and you can unsubscribe any time. To report abuse, please contact [email protected].

BOVADA is a registered trademark. All Rights Reserved.

P.O. Box 2190, Kahnawake, QC, J0L 1B0.     

legendary
Activity: 2716
Merit: 2093
Join the world-leading crypto sportsbook NOW!
Hi Ryan! Having a good night?

Not really, I already have a hang-over. How can you tell?  Tongue

Quote
Yes, it implies to all 5 of our Provably Fair Games, not just the feature P2P Game we developed.

I'm not sure what that means. Your feature game is not provably fair... so are you suggesting people don't play it?  Grin

The feature game is Peer to Peer, you're not playing against the house.

The other games we've built a few year back, ahead of the feature game, are located under the "bitcoin casino" button in the top-nav.

OP- Sorry to hijack the thread, I'm done here.

No worries, these are all important things to discuss.  

I think RHaver is right though, about bitcoin rush.  P2P games shouldn't be exempt just because the house isn't a player.  You could easily play as a player and when its your turn to go first, change your number the instant your opponent selects.  It would only take an occasional "switch", to gain a huge edge while it would take a long time for anyone to prove any accusation against you.

Has there ever been a provably fair p2p game?  I doubt we'll ever see a poker site that is successful and provably fair.  If we do I imagine it would need to be limited to heads up play.






Twitchy...  There must be some seriously ill-informed affiliates out there, we are giving out 0.3% of all HANDLE, not losses... Imagine the payback there!
Source: https://bitcoinrush.io/affiliates

I could be wrong, but I believe Betcoin has recently incresed their affiliate structure to be even more aggressive.  This is starting to seem more and more like an amwway-ish multi-level marketing scheme with the software providers at the top (with most of the likely owned by the same people) and less like a "casino"


Also worth mentioning this casino affiliate model does not translate to poker.  Serious players are forced to "affiliate shop" to find the affiliate that pays highest percentage back to them, which means multi accounts and most deals now result in player funds now exposed to a third party in addition to the casino before returning to the player.  Perfect recipe for corruption.  Speaking of which, I recommend checking out the last few pages of Betcoins sig campaign thread https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.15443347

legendary
Activity: 1833
Merit: 1030
Hi Ryan! Having a good night?

Not really, I already have a hang-over. How can you tell?  Tongue

Quote
Yes, it implies to all 5 of our Provably Fair Games, not just the feature P2P Game we developed.

I'm not sure what that means. Your feature game is not provably fair... so are you suggesting people don't play it?  Grin

The feature game is Peer to Peer, you're not playing against the house.

The other games we've built a few year back, ahead of the feature game, are located under the "bitcoin casino" button in the top-nav.

OP- Sorry to hijack the thread, just wanted to chime in and say provably fair is the only way to go.
legendary
Activity: 1833
Merit: 1030

Folks...

Solid lesson here:  Provably Fair, or don't play at all.

Does that also apply to your feature game, or just other peoples?

Hi Ryan! Having a good night?

Yes, it implies to all 5 of our Provably Fair Games, not just the feature P2P Game we developed.
legendary
Activity: 1833
Merit: 1030
-snip-
I don't get why people choose to play on these junky games that have such high house edges.
-snip-
It's the aggressive affiliate model they all use.

"Tell everyone how awesome we are and you get 20-40% of their losses for life"

Google Bitcoin Casino for thousands of shitty affiliate sites that rank casinos on their page by nothing other than which sites are giving them the biggest cut.  (there are a few that do put admirable effort into protecting the player, but they are rare)

House edge is not even available for the majority of games.


Twitchy...  There must be some seriously ill-informed affiliates out there, we are giving out 0.3% of all HANDLE, not losses... Imagine the payback there!
Source: https://bitcoinrush.io/affiliates
legendary
Activity: 1833
Merit: 1030
Folks...

Solid lesson here:  Provably Fair, or don't play at all.

newbie
Activity: 22
Merit: 0
Has anyone noticed casinolistings has been down for the past 2 days? Coincidence or is someone trying to prevent people reading the investigation??

A few people asked me that but it was just unfortunate timing I'm afraid (CL is my site). Our former host pulled the rug out from under all their customers without any notice whatsoever. At one stage we were looking at losing 12 months worth of data but thankfully were able to recover it around 3 days later. We're back and running fine now.

Thanks for keeping on this TwitchySeal. Maintain the rage.
legendary
Activity: 966
Merit: 1000
well this is only thing why i love real casino, if i win a fucking jackpot i will be paid no matter what, but i see bitcoin online casinos wont and that is sad, to see people win legal jackpot and not getting paid... very very sad to see Sad
regards.
-Katerniko1
hero member
Activity: 1162
Merit: 500
CryptoTalk.Org - Get Paid for every Post!
Casinos always male crappy excuses. Either you cheated or didn't place the right bet or something else that is trivial and meaningless. We must name and shame this. Seriously if something is not done soon we will have an epidemic like HYIP, think about if it gets that bad, gambling will be destroyed.  Angry
legendary
Activity: 2716
Merit: 2093
Join the world-leading crypto sportsbook NOW!
Whats common between all of VegasCasino/Sportsbet/bitcasino ? The raffles they arrange which are completely shit.Fake means to advertise and get people to use the site.

You should post evidence, I'm not sure exactly what you're saying is going on and can't really find any evidence, but I didn't look too hard tbh.

They did disable all Betsoft Jackpot Games though. So that's good.

(I checked, Vegas, Sportsbet and Bitcasino)

Regarding situation with Betsoft games - till further investigation we disabled all games with jackpots from our casino section.
We are already in negotiation with all parties involved and looking forward for more details.
 

legendary
Activity: 1988
Merit: 1317
Get your game girl
I tell you,its all operated by a big scam organisation calling themselves as "BTC Agency".This one dude who runs sportsbet.io goes by the name Anton BTC Agency on skype.His Skype handle : anton.coingaming

Hey guys,

We are not against adding provably fair system into our lottery platform, if it will close question of our honesty. I will discuss with developers already in the morning, but I'm sure it will take some time from them. Will keep you updated here.
We will also add more raffles already tomorrow.

And I already answered here that we are not against adding additional system to prove our honestly, there is nothing to hide for us. It's just taking time for developers and while we just opened a new sportsbook, there are plenty of tasks for them already.

Been 10 days ,still no provable fair lotteries found.

newbie
Activity: 3
Merit: 0
Has anyone noticed casinolistings has been down for the past 2 days? Coincidence or is someone trying to prevent people reading the investigation??
legendary
Activity: 2716
Merit: 2093
Join the world-leading crypto sportsbook NOW!
-snip-
I don't get why people choose to play on these junky games that have such high house edges.
-snip-
It's the aggressive affiliate model they all use.

"Tell everyone how awesome we are and you get 20-40% of their losses for life"

Google Bitcoin Casino for thousands of shitty affiliate sites that rank casinos on their page by nothing other than which sites are giving them the biggest cut.  (there are a few that do put admirable effort into protecting the player, but they are rare)

House edge is not even available for the majority of games.
legendary
Activity: 1036
Merit: 1000
Our response is continuing to build our provably fair casino which features games coded and designed from scratch. Larger players in bitcoin gambling need to step up and deliver better experiences rather than run garbage real money software and the players need to demand more. For example, players should demand that betcoin.ag proves ownership of 5000 BTC before trying their jackpot games. It's also pathetic that all these sites advertise "provably fair" when they have one provably fair game and then run that sort of software.

Ultimately it is up to the players to be responsible given how many safe options there are to choose from.

I agree with Stunna on this. I don't get why people choose to play on these junky games that have such high house edges. Do people not realize they are playing on what is usually a house edge between 2-5%? All of those casinos are the same.. And I wouldn't even call any of those sites actual casinos. They are nothing more than affiliates for the gaming providers, they don't own their own software, their own licenses, and they don't control their own bankroll (as far as I am aware). All of those sites also have questionable bonus tactics where they refuse to payout when people actually win with the bonuses.
hero member
Activity: 1162
Merit: 500
CryptoTalk.Org - Get Paid for every Post!
I knew they won't pay think about it 1-2% added to the pot for every bet. What is the house edge ? If it is less than 2% They will actually be losing money so this doesn't even add up. I think other casinos should warn us of this kind of thing and shun them out.
legendary
Activity: 2198
Merit: 1014
Bitdice is scam scam scammmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Bitcoin Casinos with Betsoft Progressive Jackpot Slots
Incomplete
4grinz.com
7bitcasino.com
betchain.com
betchan.com
betcoin.ag
bitcasino.io
bitcoin penguin
bitstarz
btc casino
cloudbet
fortune jack
limoplay
mbit casino
oshi
sportsbet.io
vegas casino


Any suggestions or volunteers to help organize this stuff is appreciated.
Just wanted to point out that Sportsbet.io, Vegascasino.io and Bitcasino.io are all operated by the same company at CoinGaming.io. An opinion from either of those sites should suffice, since they are all owned by the same company. I doubt they would split on something like that. Anyway, I will send mBitCasino an email later and see what they think. I'll post their response once I get it. My guess for cloudbet is that they won't care, since withdraws take forever and they don't seem to care about that either.
Cool, good work.

Got a reply from sportsbet

Hey TwitchySeal,

We will contact our platform provider CoinGaming and get a reply asap about this issue. Thanks for bringing it to our attention.

I thought mBitCasino was also the same CoinGaming, but now they look different I guess.



Bitcasino was running pirated games in the past, Vegascasino.io using pirated Novomatic games and most probably others.
Last time I checked Bitcasino had licence from Montenegro and after Askgamblers blacklisted them they shared licence with mBitCasino and now they are listed along with sportbets.io and owner is mBetSolutions N.V. https://validator.curacao-egaming.com/3c743911-e89d-4a2f-a803-df264761553c
 
legendary
Activity: 2716
Merit: 2093
Join the world-leading crypto sportsbook NOW!

Bitcoin Casinos with Betsoft Progressive Jackpot Slots
Incomplete
4grinz.com
7bitcasino.com
betchain.com
betchan.com
betcoin.ag
bitcasino.io
bitcoin penguin
bitstarz
btc casino
cloudbet
fortune jack
limoplay
mbit casino
oshi
sportsbet.io
vegas casino


Any suggestions or volunteers to help organize this stuff is appreciated.
Just wanted to point out that Sportsbet.io, Vegascasino.io and Bitcasino.io are all operated by the same company at CoinGaming.io. An opinion from either of those sites should suffice, since they are all owned by the same company. I doubt they would split on something like that. Anyway, I will send mBitCasino an email later and see what they think. I'll post their response once I get it. My guess for cloudbet is that they won't care, since withdraws take forever and they don't seem to care about that either.
Cool, good work.

Got a reply from sportsbet

Hey TwitchySeal,

We will contact our platform provider CoinGaming and get a reply asap about this issue. Thanks for bringing it to our attention.

I thought mBitCasino was also the same CoinGaming, but now they look different I guess.

legendary
Activity: 2772
Merit: 3284

Bitcoin Casinos with Betsoft Progressive Jackpot Slots
Incomplete
4grinz.com
7bitcasino.com
betchain.com
betchan.com
betcoin.ag
bitcasino.io
bitcoin penguin
bitstarz
btc casino
cloudbet
fortune jack
limoplay
mbit casino
oshi
sportsbet.io
vegas casino


Any suggestions or volunteers to help organize this stuff is appreciated.
Just wanted to point out that Sportsbet.io, Vegascasino.io and Bitcasino.io are all operated by the same company at CoinGaming.io. An opinion from either of those sites should suffice, since they are all owned by the same company. I doubt they would split on something like that. Anyway, I will send mBitCasino an email later and see what they think. I'll post their response once I get it. My guess for cloudbet is that they won't care, since withdraws take forever and they don't seem to care about that either.
legendary
Activity: 2716
Merit: 2093
Join the world-leading crypto sportsbook NOW!
So if I get this right, betsoft is the service which provides the gaming platform to those sites right ?

Betsoft provides the software.

Casinos usually offer many different software providers (Endorphina, Amatic, GameArt for example)

It's really just one big affiliate tree, the software provider is at the top.

 SoftwareProviders--->Casino (Sites)--->Affiliate Sites----Player

How was the user able to win the jackpot if it was unwinnable in the first case ?
I posted some cliffs here:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.15376629

Our response is continuing to build our provably fair casino which features games coded and designed from scratch. Larger players in bitcoin gambling need to step up and deliver better experiences rather than run garbage real money software and the players need to demand more. For example, players should demand that betcoin.ag proves ownership of 5000 BTC before trying their jackpot games. It's also pathetic that all these sites advertise "provably fair" when they have one provably fair game and then run that sort of software.

Ultimately it is up to the players to be responsible given how many safe options there are to choose from.

Betsoft Gaming is the polar opposite of a site like PrimeDice.
It literally couldn't not be any less transparent is probably nothing.
But it's also one of, if not the biggest software provider for Bitcoin Casinos. wtf?

I recently made a post criticizing Betsoft on Betcoin.ag forums.  


Here's my comment:

Quote
Betsoft and Endorphina games would never get approved by any major regulator because they don't meet some of the most basic regulations. (posting rtp, independant reels, flashing higher paying symbols at a higher rate than they actually hit)
They are as transparent as a Brick Wall.
The more legit providers you find on the floor in ac or vegas like netent won't provide for a site that is completely unregulated site or they would lose their license in multiple jurisdictions (like NJ and NV) which translates to a shitload of money.

Here's the chat transcript with Betcoin support after it vanished/I reposted it a bunch of times:

Quote
(10:15:47)   twitchyseal: hey andrew, you know anything about my vanishing post?
(10:17:21)   Betcoin Andrew: Our casino providers do an excellent job and are used by the top online casinos. We cannot have those type of comments about them in the forum as they are constantly reviewing our website.
(10:17:26)   *** Betcoin Andrew left the chat ***
(10:17:36)   *** twitchyseal has rated the chat Bad ***
(10:17:44)   twitchyseal: are you deleting them?
(10:18:16)   *** Betcoin Andrew joined the chat ***
(10:18:23)   Betcoin Andrew: An intern is. Why post the same thing 10 times?
(10:18:40)   twitchyseal: because it kept vanishing and i think its useful info
(10:18:45)   twitchyseal: was any of it inaccurate?
(10:18:52)   Betcoin Andrew: twitchy your time is valuable man I have been telling you this for over a year.
(10:18:58)   twitchyseal: i know
(10:19:03)   twitchyseal: im glad you appreciate that
(10:19:19)   Betcoin Andrew: You should man.
(10:19:21)   twitchyseal: im glad you dont take things personal, im just being honest
(10:19:34)   twitchyseal: so is there something false about my statement?
(10:19:40)   Betcoin Andrew: It may not be much to you, but posting that 10 times and having it deleted 10 times is a waste of time.
(10:19:47)   Betcoin Andrew: Certainly you understand that right?
(10:19:57)   twitchyseal: agree, so you won't delete it anymore?
(10:20:09)   Betcoin Andrew: Wow
(10:20:20)   Betcoin Andrew: Alright I have some work to do. My time is very valuable.
(10:20:25)   *** Betcoin Andrew left the chat **
legendary
Activity: 3192
Merit: 1279
Primedice.com, Stake.com
Our response is continuing to build our provably fair casino which features games coded and designed from scratch. Larger players in bitcoin gambling need to step up and deliver better experiences rather than run garbage real money software and the players need to demand more. For example, players should demand that betcoin.ag proves ownership of 5000 BTC before trying their jackpot games. It's also pathetic that all these sites advertise "provably fair" when they have one provably fair game and then run that sort of software.

Ultimately it is up to the players to be responsible given how many safe options there are to choose from.
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