Topic: Beware of so-called "anonymous" coins (XMR, SDC, AEON and DASH) - page 3. (Read 8600 times)

You have still not refuted my response.

Once again just because you "said" something doesn't make it true. Creating a thread doesn't automatically make your claim infallible.

Pointing out a fallacy in your statements (that you are unable to acknowledge) is not being defensive. It is actually calling you out on your claims and asking for this "proof" you claim to have made which you have yet to either link me to that refutes my response or you repeat it here.

The more you deflect the more it appears you have an agenda. I actually wanted to know if you could refute my statement which you then decided not to quote in your response....conveniently.

Once again, projecting a mind-set on myself or others by presuming what we are thinking (i.e. "getting defensive") makes you look very foolish. You can just ask me what my motivations are and I will tell them to you, but you have yet to do that either.

 

Actually, ideas should have merit, and being helped up or held down by a name, goes to the old world system.

I did said something and it was proved to be true. I created a thread, which should serve like "trading point of view" and we all saw what happened.

But I can tell you what are your attempts. I mentioned Monero in the thread and all of the sudden some of you become so defensive. It always happens when you say something about Monero or DASH. You all scream "power to the people", but you are all hiding, because of your "privacy". Step up and do something with your name, then we can have a discussion.

Just because you say something, doesn't make it true. You have yet to refute my previous post.

But that's okay, you aren't the first to do such a thing.  

Also I never accused you of "attacking" monero. Please stop with attempting to construct a deflective strawman argument there to divert attention away from your clearly flawed statement.

And it will, but not to a degree which many of you Monero lovers are dreaming of.

Younger and better. Contrary to Bitcoin, Monero solved fungibility, scalability and centralization problems.


Then there wouldn't be a place to sell your portion, so the price stays the same . Imagine the effect in media: state is openly admitting Monero is the problem because they can't control it, it's fascism in praxis. Won't go easy with that, idea of anonymous money is there to live.

@smoothie

Quoting me 101 times would not prove you're the right one here. I'm not attacking your beloved Monero.

About the TA,

A true TA is impossible to be made on Bitcoin, because the market is too volatile. You need to research some specific patterns, which does not apply on Bitcoin. BTC for instance have some average price (seen on Coinmarketcap for example) , but it has big price difference on different exchanges. See what I mean:

BTC-E           BTC/USD      $602.10   
Bitfinex   BTC/USD      $607.70   
BitMEX   BTC/USD      $600.50   
OkCoin Intl.   BTC/USD      $604.28   
Bitstamp   BTC/USD      $599.62   

This would never happen with EURO/USD or USD/GOLD, or whatever. The market needs to be bigger.

They are in the process of doing so.  For instance, in France it is forbidden to buy anything above 3000 Euro with cash, and they are going to restrict that to 1000 Euro in the future.

Technical analysis is then just "doing the same as newbies, but 5 minutes earlier". 
I still stand by my "technical analysis" of technical analysis: it is a belief system, in the same way as a monetary token itself is a belief system: you believe the results of technical analysis because you believe that other traders believe it too.  So if TA tells you "price is going to go up", then you buy, because you believe (probably correctly) that other traders also doing THE SAME technical analysis see also "price is going to go up", and ALSO buy, which, holy miracle, makes the price actually go up as all of you buy.  In the same way, as TA tells you "price is going to fall", then you quickly sell, because you believe (probably correctly) that other traders doing the SAME TA will also see the message "price is going to fall" and hence are also going to sell, which, holy miracle, will make the price fall.

So in theory, if all of you traders were to have the same pseudo-random number generator with the same seed that would indicate in a random way (but the same way because same seed) "price is going up" or "price is going down", then this WILL indeed be a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Now, concerning newbies that DO NOT have this seed, they will never KNOW when there will be a concerted "buy" or "sell" motive, and so they will, half of the time, buy when TA tells you to sell, and sell, when TA tells you to buy.  Because these newbies are excluded from the knowledge of TA, they will LOSE BIG, while a majority of whale traders following the same TA (or the same PRNG with the same seed) will always act in unison and reap in the noise of the newbies.  The newbies are also those "stabilizing" the price somewhat before the concerted actions of the TA traders and hence giving time to the TA traders to execute their selling (to newbies) and their buying (from newbies).

THIS is why TA works: because it is the concerted correlation message between "old boys of the market" pumping money out of newbies who have not this correlation signal.

On a purely anonymous PoV, I do think that it's an important thing. And those who are against it should realize that cash, which has been used for illegal things ever since it was created hundreds of years ago, is also anonymous. But governments haven't made cash illegal.

No my friend. Technical Analysis works because there are many clueless newbies out there trading. It make the market inefficient and irrational. That is why we see people dumping on the news because the they believe this is the right way to trade. When they see that the price keeps going up after they dump they panic once again and buy up in the market again propelling the market up. Emotions drive the market and that is what you want. You do not want your competitors to become emotionless Technical Analysis drones who will not budge and trade efficiently. That will make trading not as profitable.

Agreed it is complicated.

And that will limit how many people utilize cryptos to the extent that some of us do here.

That part of adoption is years away. That's not the focus right now.

I side with him, but not because of anonymity. It's more because cryptos are still way before their time. People still have issues with things like PayPal, which is a LOT less complicated than trying to use a crypto wallet. Now you have to secure the wallet, keep it backed up, etc. It's a complicated process for 99% of the people out there. This will absolutely hinder adoption.

I suppose usage of cash on the black market is a marketing trick?

Black markets exist whether we like them (or support them) or not.

Hype does exist at times and fear does exist....not disputing that. But to say that something will never be utilized to its full potential is to say for example as some have said "The internet will never amount to anything" OR "No one will want to have a personal computer in their homes".

A privacy-centric currency does not need to gain mainstream support and acceptance to be successful in its purpose.

This statement is not clear to me ^

What do people need to be controlled from exactly?

I think the idea of putting the word "people" in the context with the word "controlled" in such a way implying they should have some sort of oversight does not ever mix. You warning people not to fall into the current hype is not a form of control. So I am confused what type of control you imply.

My idea was that technical analysis works when most other traders also use that technical analysis.   I thought that the principle of technical analysis (not the *announced* but the *actual*) was that it induces correlated movements in the future actions of traders.  That correlation has to come from a common entropy source of all these actors, which could be just any common used series of random numbers, but which can just as well be 'volume and price movement' of the asset in question (or any other asset for that matter).  But the trick is to have correlated induction of trading acts by the different agents.

People being greedy is perhaps a problem, but a problem that doesn't have an absolute solution over the masses. Not sure what is the point of this thread once again as has been previously been asked.

People are responsible for their own actions. If they don't do their research into what they are investing into then that is no one's problem but theirs.

I don't believe that monero has branded itself as being an "anonymous" coin. At least not to my knowledge.

There is no need to spread lies

I do not think this is correct. Is it not that technical analysis is a type of analysis that uses the movement of the price and volume as basis? Where does organic growth come in in technical analysis? The reason why some people use technical analysis is because they do not believe in fundamental analysis where "organic growth" is supposed to belong. In technical analysis the traders make money from the inefficiencies of the market and the irrationality of the newbies which is a lot in cryptocoins.