BFL ASIC Announcement - Truth or Troll ? - The LONG CON just got longer - page 3.

SgtSpike

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Quote from: bitlane on June 18, 2012, 04:37:51 PM

Quote from: SgtSpike on June 18, 2012, 04:31:56 PM

Pure speculation.

Please tell me that you don't have your head up in the clouds and think for a second that BFL would even consider (FROM A BUSINESS STANDPOINT) offering a 'Trade-up' program and allowing more than a 1:1 ratio.
To think that would be insane.

My speculation is based on logic.

Or, perhaps, just MAYBE, they want to create a reputation of being an upstanding Bitcoin miner manufacturer. Perhaps, just MAYBE, they'd rather not screw over their customers who have yet to receive their products, and would instead rather take a hit on the sales of the previous units to ensure trustworthiness on the sale of future units.

Perhaps what is insane to someone who looks at "business standpoints" from such a short-sited point of view, is not actually insane at all, but entirely realistic as part of a sustainable, long-term business plan.

KyleH

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BITLANE = SPECULATION
There is no proof of any of these delusional scenarios he talks about, he's just pulling them out of his fear mongering ass.

bitlane

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I heart thebaron

Quote from: SgtSpike on June 18, 2012, 04:31:56 PM

Pure speculation.

Please tell me that you don't have your head up in the clouds and think for a second that BFL would even consider (FROM A BUSINESS STANDPOINT) offering a 'Trade-up' program and allowing more than a 1:1 ratio.
To think that would be insane.

My speculation is based on logic.

SgtSpike

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Quote from: bitlane on June 18, 2012, 03:35:06 PM

Quote from: Phraust on June 18, 2012, 03:28:46 PM

I'd be willing to trade up my 10 BFL Singles for 5 BFL SC Singles, and go from 8gh to 200gh. I don't see what the problem would be.

*shrug*

NOT gonna happen. I can almost bet. How can they offer that ? THEY NEED MORE OF YOUR MONEY !

It will be a 1:1 Trade-Up Ratio. Your current 10 Singles will be eligible to trade up against 10 new SC Singles + approx $7,000 USD ($700 x 10). So start saving up.

Pure speculation.

Quote from: bitlane on June 18, 2012, 03:43:58 PM

Let's use gigavps as an example....

Quote from: jamesg on June 17, 2012, 09:32:18 AM

To all gigaminers:

There has been a lot of news / discussion in recent days regarding new equipment coming out from Butterfly Labs. I have confirmed with BFL that this information is indeed correct and have submitted an order for 4 more mini rigs. This will bring gigamining up to a total of 8 mini rigs (204Gh/s), 14 BFL Singles (12Gh/s) and around 90 GPUs (36Gh/s).

He will be holding a total of 8 Mini-Rigs and 14 Bitforce Singles.

Do you have any idea what HIS 'Trade-Up' costs will be @ 1:1 'Trade-up' Ratio ?

8 Mini-Rigs ($15,000) to 8 SC Mini-Rigs ($30,000) = $15,000 each (upgrade cost) = $120,000 USD
14 Singles ($600) to 14 SC Singles ($1300) = $700 each (upgrade cost) = $9,800 USD

So, unless gigavps just gives up and quits when ASICS come out, as his current hardware will be next to useless....

HE WILL NEED TO COME UP WITH NEARLY $130,000 USD (One Hundred Thirty Thousand Dollars) just to become competitive again.

FUCK ME !

Pure speculation.

Quote from: bitlane on June 18, 2012, 03:51:20 PM

BFL WILL NOT 'TRADE-UP' WITHOUT ADDITIONAL MONEY.....you are missing the point.

They have everyone, HOOK, LINE and SINKER.

Everyone that bought a Mini-Rig will be in SERIOUS trouble and will need to come up with an additional $15,000 per Mini-Rig to protect their investment once ASICs hit.

I feel sorry for those deep pocketed people....I can think of so much more to do with THAT amount of money.

Pure speculation.

I'm not sure why I continue to defend BFL though. The more FUD you can spread about them, the fewer people who will buy them, the quicker I'll be able to get them.

MrTeal

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Quote from: bitlane on June 18, 2012, 03:43:58 PM

Let's use gigavps as an example....

Quote from: jamesg on June 17, 2012, 09:32:18 AM

To all gigaminers:

There has been a lot of news / discussion in recent days regarding new equipment coming out from Butterfly Labs. I have confirmed with BFL that this information is indeed correct and have submitted an order for 4 more mini rigs. This will bring gigamining up to a total of 8 mini rigs (204Gh/s), 14 BFL Singles (12Gh/s) and around 90 GPUs (36Gh/s).

He will be holding a total of 8 Mini-Rigs and 14 Bitforce Singles.

Do you have any idea what HIS 'Trade-Up' costs will be @ 1:1 'Trade-up' Ratio ?

8 Mini-Rigs ($15,000) to 8 SC Mini-Rigs ($30,000) = $15,000 each (upgrade cost) = $120,000 USD
14 Singles ($600) to 14 SC Singles ($1300) = $700 each (upgrade cost) = $9,800 USD

So, unless gigavps just gives up and quits when ASICS come out, as his current hardware will be next to useless....

HE WILL NEED TO COME UP WITH NEARLY $130,000 USD (One Hundred Thirty Thousand Dollars) just to become competitive again.

FUCK ME !

Even with a 1:1 limit on units, Giga wouldn't necessarily need to spend that much to upgrade. If he is not interested in fully upgrading all his hardware, he could always sell an FPGA minirig to someone who is interested in buying a SC Minirig at a discount, which the new buyer could use to reduce the cost of their SC purchase.

Still, the whole way this has gone about is just stinky. The fact that there's been no other word from BFL since the announcement other than further FUD on a competitor's thread is hardly reassuring, as is BFL listing their company's employees by last initial in their press release.

Warning, baseless FUD to follow-> It's widely known now that the Singles and the Minirig Singles are previous generation top of the line FPGAs, which it is assumed BFL acquired used or discontinued at a massive discount. If you were running a company with such a business model for all your products, and you take cash up front before a product is ever shipped, what would you do if your supply of incredibly cheap hardware dries up and you have to start sourcing it at a much increased cost?

Brunic

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Quote from: rjk on June 18, 2012, 03:52:10 PM

Quote from: Brunic on June 18, 2012, 03:49:58 PM

So....I just want to understand correctly.

A company who offers FPGA boards without a functional bitstream and with a length of delivery of around 2 months now is taking the heat of a company who offers FPGA with a functional bitstream with a delivery of around 2 months. So the company who delivers in 2 months (not the first one, the second) announce they are working on "vaporware" to prevent the company with the incomplete FPGA to sell too much of them.

Roll Eyes

Only just a little bit more complicated than that, my dear sir.

Yeah, I know. If it was not for their horrible launch back this winter, I'm pretty sure BFL would be highly regarded around here.

Poor guys, they are probably working their ass off to respect delivery time, and whenever they come on this forum to announce something, they create the biggest shitstorm I've ever seen.

rjk

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1ngldh

Quote from: Brunic on June 18, 2012, 03:49:58 PM

So....I just want to understand correctly.

A company who offers FPGA boards without a functional bitstream and with a length of delivery of around 2 months now is taking the heat of a company who offers FPGA with a functional bitstream with a delivery of around 2 months. So the company who delivers in 2 months (not the first one, the second) announce they are working on "vaporware" to prevent the company with the incomplete FPGA to sell too much of them.

Roll Eyes

Only just a little bit more complicated than that, my dear sir.

bitlane

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I heart thebaron

BFL WILL NOT 'TRADE-UP' WITHOUT ADDITIONAL MONEY.....you are missing the point.

They have everyone, HOOK, LINE and SINKER.

Everyone that bought a Mini-Rig will be in SERIOUS trouble and will need to come up with an additional $15,000 per Mini-Rig to protect their investment once ASICs hit.

I feel sorry for those deep pocketed people....I can think of so much more to do with THAT amount of money.

Raoul Duke

legendary

Activity: 1358

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Quote from: bitlane on June 18, 2012, 02:50:43 PM

- Bitforce Single, 840 MH/s @ 5.99 USD

How much time will you take to ship those?
I'll take 200 of them, please.

Brunic

hero member

Activity: 632

Merit: 500

So....I just want to understand correctly.

A company who offers FPGA boards without a functional bitstream and with a length of delivery of around 2 months now is taking the heat of a company who offers FPGA with a functional bitstream with a delivery of around 2 months. So the company who delivers in 2 months (not the first one, the second) announce they are working on "vaporware" to prevent the company with the incomplete FPGA to sell too much of them.

Roll Eyes

Phraust

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Mostly Harmless...

That could very well happen. Depending on whether the consensus is to "change all the things" because asics are "unfair" (at which point I'd probably be done with bitcoin anyhow), and whether they do only allow 1:1 trade-ups will drastically change my decision. There is too much speculation, guessing, and bullshit at the moment to be able to make any kind of call.

I was already on the fence about upgrading to a MiniRig, which would put my total investment at about the same range ($15-$20k). So if trading in 8.5gh for 400gh arrives at about the same cost to upgrade to 25.5gh now (without all the "asics are unfair" nonsense), it'd be silly not to take advantage of that.

bitlane

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I heart thebaron

Let's use gigavps as an example....

Quote from: jamesg on June 17, 2012, 09:32:18 AM

To all gigaminers:

There has been a lot of news / discussion in recent days regarding new equipment coming out from Butterfly Labs. I have confirmed with BFL that this information is indeed correct and have submitted an order for 4 more mini rigs. This will bring gigamining up to a total of 8 mini rigs (204Gh/s), 14 BFL Singles (12Gh/s) and around 90 GPUs (36Gh/s).

He will be holding a total of 8 Mini-Rigs and 14 Bitforce Singles.

Do you have any idea what HIS 'Trade-Up' costs will be @ 1:1 'Trade-up' Ratio ?

8 Mini-Rigs ($15,000) to 8 SC Mini-Rigs ($30,000) = $15,000 each (upgrade cost) = $120,000 USD
14 Singles ($600) to 14 SC Singles ($1300) = $700 each (upgrade cost) = $9,800 USD

So, unless gigavps just gives up and quits when ASICS come out, as his current hardware will be next to useless....

HE WILL NEED TO COME UP WITH NEARLY $130,000 USD (One Hundred Thirty Thousand Dollars) just to become competitive again.

FUCK ME !

punin

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Activity: 560

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I'm beginning to suspect that BFL is in fact a pyramide scam. What if they had to pay almost list price for those cyclone III's that they used in singles? What if they need more and more orders just to get the chips paid? That would explain the ridiculously long and ever growing lead times...

Fuzzy

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It's been said time and again, Buy the coins, not the hardware. If everyone buys ASIC hardware, then everyone is now back to square one, just minus the money they invested.

bitlane

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I heart thebaron

Quote from: Phraust on June 18, 2012, 03:28:46 PM

I'd be willing to trade up my 10 BFL Singles for 5 BFL SC Singles, and go from 8gh to 200gh. I don't see what the problem would be.

*shrug*

NOT gonna happen. I can almost bet. How can they offer that ? THEY NEED MORE OF YOUR MONEY !

It will be a 1:1 Trade-Up Ratio. Your current 10 Singles will be eligible to trade up against 10 new SC Singles + approx $7,000 USD ($700 x 10). So start saving up.

SgtSpike

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Quote from: bitlane on June 18, 2012, 03:20:56 PM

Quote from: SgtSpike on June 18, 2012, 03:16:30 PM

I do think it's silly to make the sort of assumptions that you've made, with regards to how the trade in program will work when you really have no idea how the trade in program will work, but you're certainly allowed to speculate however you like. Wink

Without a clear and concise Program plan straight from 'the horse's mouth' what other alternatives are there, other than speculation ?

Here's how I speculated...
I thought as cheap and underhanded as I possibly could (like a drug dealer) ...and came up with the post(s) above and the program 1:1 ratio etc.
Would it wrong to assume that judging by their track record of payment vs delivery and communication/hype/FUD, that I can't be all that far off ? if not 100% DEAD ON ?

It's up to THEM to clarify....or perhaps now, reconsider Wink

In my opinion, yes, it would be wrong.
In my opinion, they are simply a startup company with subpar communication and demand for their products that far outstrips their supply.

Quote from: Phraust on June 18, 2012, 03:28:46 PM

I'd be willing to trade up my 10 BFL Singles for 5 BFL SC Singles, and go from 8gh to 200gh. I don't see what the problem would be.

*shrug*

Bitlane's speculation is that BFL will only allow you to trade 10 BFL Singles for 10 BFL SC Singles, and have to cough up the extra $7000 on top of it.

Phraust

full member

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Mostly Harmless...

I'd be willing to trade up my 10 BFL Singles for 5 BFL SC Singles, and go from 8gh to 200gh. I don't see what the problem would be.

*shrug*

stevegee58

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I want to mine at 3.5 GH/s for under $149. Sign me up. Cool

bitlane

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Quote from: SgtSpike on June 18, 2012, 03:16:30 PM

I do think it's silly to make the sort of assumptions that you've made, with regards to how the trade in program will work when you really have no idea how the trade in program will work, but you're certainly allowed to speculate however you like. Wink

Without a clear and concise Program plan straight from 'the horse's mouth' what other alternatives are there, other than speculation ?

Here's how I speculated...
I thought as cheap and underhanded as I possibly could (like a drug dealer) ...and came up with the post(s) above and the program 1:1 ratio etc.
Would it wrong to assume that judging by their track record of payment vs delivery and communication/hype/FUD, that I can't be all that far off ? if not 100% DEAD ON ?

It's up to THEM to clarify....or perhaps now, reconsider Wink

SgtSpike

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Quote from: bitlane on June 18, 2012, 03:13:53 PM

Quote from: SgtSpike on June 18, 2012, 03:12:26 PM

That's ok that you're fearful - less wait time and more BFL ASICs for me then!

There's nothing wrong with that. As long as you are not buying these under any illusions of 'a deal' and are thinking clearly.
They are not doing YOU any favors. You are doing it all for them.....

Their sale's pitch has sucked in more than a few, who haven't thought this through entirely.

They've done me plenty of favors. I am very happy with the purchases I've made from them thus far.

And certainly, I'll take a close look at whatever trade in agreement is offered. I do think it's silly to make the sort of assumptions that you've made, with regards to how the trade in program will work when you really have no idea how the trade in program will work, but you're certainly allowed to speculate however you like. Wink

Topic: BFL ASIC Announcement - Truth or Troll ? - The LONG CON just got longer - page 3. (Read 5788 times)