A new low, as the drama continues...
I prefer to see this as a new high, in the art of trollery.
On which exchange do Inaba's TROLL.MINR shares trade?
I wish to support this kind of thing by investing!
Topic: BFL is keeping a portion of first batch chips for their own mining farm - page 2. (Read 6768 times)
March 24, 2013, 07:04:22 PM
I prefer to see this as a new high, in the art of trollery.
On which exchange do Inaba's TROLL.MINR shares trade?
I wish to support this kind of thing by investing!
March 24, 2013, 06:02:49 PM
Inaba's part (real BFLS.RIG) is quite smaller.
...of that I have no doubt.
March 24, 2013, 05:57:36 PM
This thread is simply FUD.
Josh made the IPO of BFLS.RIG in June and ordered part of Minirigs SC in June and another part in July.
He was not working for BFL that time.
He started his work for BFL in August and he clearly stated he wouldn't expand the mining farm (buying additional ASIC devices) apart of fulfilling his obligations (getting what was pre-ordered as an upgrade to replace existing Minirigs and Singles).
He is not going to the start of the queue, he has to wait for his orders' numbers/dates to be ready, like everyone else has. What was cited in OP (Some of them are, not all of them. ...) just confirmed this.
So, the thread title ("BFL is keeping...") is false and very misleading.
Another thing: BFLS.RIG is quite small enterprise - most of the machines in the farm belong to other people (e.g. six rigs are Dark Ice's) and are only hosted by Josh, many of them temporarily. Inaba's part (real BFLS.RIG) is quite smaller.
Josh made the IPO of BFLS.RIG in June and ordered part of Minirigs SC in June and another part in July.
He was not working for BFL that time.
He started his work for BFL in August and he clearly stated he wouldn't expand the mining farm (buying additional ASIC devices) apart of fulfilling his obligations (getting what was pre-ordered as an upgrade to replace existing Minirigs and Singles).
He is not going to the start of the queue, he has to wait for his orders' numbers/dates to be ready, like everyone else has. What was cited in OP (Some of them are, not all of them. ...) just confirmed this.
So, the thread title ("BFL is keeping...") is false and very misleading.
Another thing: BFLS.RIG is quite small enterprise - most of the machines in the farm belong to other people (e.g. six rigs are Dark Ice's) and are only hosted by Josh, many of them temporarily. Inaba's part (real BFLS.RIG) is quite smaller.
March 24, 2013, 05:46:10 PM
Obvious COI is obvious.
To do the right thing, Josh either needs to step down from his BFL position, or fold this "Mining Company" idea.
He explicitly stated when he took the BFL position that he would not further expand his "mining footprint":
To do the right thing, Josh either needs to step down from his BFL position, or fold this "Mining Company" idea.
He explicitly stated when he took the BFL position that he would not further expand his "mining footprint":
Q. You are going to have an unfair advantage when it comes to mining equipment, you’ll be able to get as much as you want before anyone else!
A. I will not be expanding my mining footprint as it would be a conflict of interest. I will continue with my current obligations and already acquired/paid for equipment but will not be purchasing or utilizing additional equipment as part of my mining operations. This is one of the hardest changes I will be making, as I firmly believe there are plenty of opportunities in this space that I am going to be missing out on, but I believe I can do more good for the bitcoin community as a whole working to provide that equipment to people as opposed to using it myself.
A. I will not be expanding my mining footprint as it would be a conflict of interest. I will continue with my current obligations and already acquired/paid for equipment but will not be purchasing or utilizing additional equipment as part of my mining operations. This is one of the hardest changes I will be making, as I firmly believe there are plenty of opportunities in this space that I am going to be missing out on, but I believe I can do more good for the bitcoin community as a whole working to provide that equipment to people as opposed to using it myself.
Your quote is from after he already bought the rigs and IPOed. August versus June. As long as he hasn't expanded since August 1, 2012, he's keeping his word.
March 24, 2013, 04:52:20 PM
Q. You are going to have an unfair advantage when it comes to mining equipment, you’ll be able to get as much as you want before anyone else!
A. I will not be expanding my mining footprint as it would be a conflict of interest.
A. I will not be expanding my mining footprint as it would be a conflict of interest.
Lets say he does what you said, and doesn't set aside any chips for the IPO. Now a few customers get their chips a few weeks sooner, and it's a giant FU to all of those who bought into the IPO (which does not include me).
Sounds like the IPO in the first place should have never been offered. It is in direct violation of his own promise to avoid a "conflict of interest".
March 24, 2013, 04:31:04 PM
Obvious COI is obvious.
To do the right thing, Josh either needs to step down from his BFL position, or fold this "Mining Company" idea.
He explicitly stated when he took the BFL position that he would not further expand his "mining footprint":
To do the right thing, Josh either needs to step down from his BFL position, or fold this "Mining Company" idea.
He explicitly stated when he took the BFL position that he would not further expand his "mining footprint":
Q. You are going to have an unfair advantage when it comes to mining equipment, you’ll be able to get as much as you want before anyone else!
A. I will not be expanding my mining footprint as it would be a conflict of interest. I will continue with my current obligations and already acquired/paid for equipment but will not be purchasing or utilizing additional equipment as part of my mining operations. This is one of the hardest changes I will be making, as I firmly believe there are plenty of opportunities in this space that I am going to be missing out on, but I believe I can do more good for the bitcoin community as a whole working to provide that equipment to people as opposed to using it myself.
A. I will not be expanding my mining footprint as it would be a conflict of interest. I will continue with my current obligations and already acquired/paid for equipment but will not be purchasing or utilizing additional equipment as part of my mining operations. This is one of the hardest changes I will be making, as I firmly believe there are plenty of opportunities in this space that I am going to be missing out on, but I believe I can do more good for the bitcoin community as a whole working to provide that equipment to people as opposed to using it myself.
Only you can prevent scammy companies. - Smokey the Bear
Everyone. Remember these things that have transpired. Keep them in mind for when the time is right.
Off topic. How's that LOIC working?
March 24, 2013, 04:22:47 PM
If I were him, I would put my Jobs customers first. The IPO guys within my side hobby and investment already have their FPGA Minirigs to tide them for awhile. My Job's customers have nothing...except ample patience and desperation. Perhaps even some depreciating faith.
If the following is true, the delay for his IPO hardware upgrade is trivial.
---Batch 1 will ship soon.
---Batch 2 will ship soon after that.
---Batch 3 will ship with ample chips to satisfy everyone including his own orders.
If any of the above is not true, then it is perhaps best he punch his customers in the gut by taking his IPO upgrade hardware first. If the above is true....then what is a few weeks extra to conduct the IPO hardware related upgrades?
Where do you place the priority?
March 24, 2013, 04:17:50 PM
Known or not....this is a big FU to every customer in my book.
Rather than being honorable and saying..."You know what? I have an order with BFL, and I will ship my own when every customer to date has his/hers. Sorry for the delays."
Lets say he does what you said, and doesn't set aside any chips for the IPO. Now a few customers get their chips a few weeks sooner, and it's a giant FU to all of those who bought into the IPO (which does not include me).Rather than being honorable and saying..."You know what? I have an order with BFL,
There's a limited amount of chips in the first batch. Not everyone can get their chips. Someone has to wait. Do they make the customers wait? The IPO investors? If Josh was getting a free MR just for his own personal profit, then I would be pissed.
It's true, he does do a diservice to his IPO customers. But then, they have the FPGA minirigs to tide them over for now.
He is directly in charge of the ASIC development project. (I use the term "directly" in a very...technical sense...not to be interpreted literally.)
So does his loyalty come first to his IPO clients outside his dealings with BFL (His Employer)
...OR...
with his Job as the ASIC developer and coordinator come first?
It's a tough call. Hobby or the Job. It appears he has elected to go with his Hobby.
--------------------
As for your other question, 400 chips are quite a few Singles, Mini-singles and quite a few Jaly's.
If I were him, I would put my Jobs customers first. The IPO guys within my side hobby and investment already have their FPGA Minirigs to tide them for awhile. My Job's customers have nothing...except ample patience and desperation. Perhaps even some depreciating faith.
March 24, 2013, 04:09:50 PM
Known or not....this is a big FU to every customer in my book.
Rather than being honorable and saying..."You know what? I have an order with BFL, and I will ship my own when every customer to date has his/hers. Sorry for the delays."
Lets say he does what you said, and doesn't set aside any chips for the IPO. Now a few customers get their chips a few weeks sooner, and it's a giant FU to all of those who bought into the IPO (which does not include me).Rather than being honorable and saying..."You know what? I have an order with BFL,
There's a limited amount of chips in the first batch. Not everyone can get their chips. Someone has to wait. Do they make the customers wait? The IPO investors? If Josh was getting a free MR just for his own personal profit, then I would be pissed.
After all that has transpired, do you really think such a thing is beyond him?
March 24, 2013, 03:53:38 PM
Known or not....this is a big FU to every customer in my book.
Rather than being honorable and saying..."You know what? I have an order with BFL, and I will ship my own when every customer to date has his/hers. Sorry for the delays."
Lets say he does what you said, and doesn't set aside any chips for the IPO. Now a few customers get their chips a few weeks sooner, and it's a giant FU to all of those who bought into the IPO (which does not include me).Rather than being honorable and saying..."You know what? I have an order with BFL,
There's a limited amount of chips in the first batch. Not everyone can get their chips. Someone has to wait. Do they make the customers wait? The IPO investors? If Josh was getting a free MR just for his own personal profit, then I would be pissed.
March 24, 2013, 03:00:06 PM
Obvious COI is obvious.
To do the right thing, Josh either needs to step down from his BFL position, or fold this "Mining Company" idea.
He explicitly stated when he took the BFL position that he would not further expand his "mining footprint":
To do the right thing, Josh either needs to step down from his BFL position, or fold this "Mining Company" idea.
He explicitly stated when he took the BFL position that he would not further expand his "mining footprint":
Q. You are going to have an unfair advantage when it comes to mining equipment, you’ll be able to get as much as you want before anyone else!
A. I will not be expanding my mining footprint as it would be a conflict of interest. I will continue with my current obligations and already acquired/paid for equipment but will not be purchasing or utilizing additional equipment as part of my mining operations. This is one of the hardest changes I will be making, as I firmly believe there are plenty of opportunities in this space that I am going to be missing out on, but I believe I can do more good for the bitcoin community as a whole working to provide that equipment to people as opposed to using it myself.
A. I will not be expanding my mining footprint as it would be a conflict of interest. I will continue with my current obligations and already acquired/paid for equipment but will not be purchasing or utilizing additional equipment as part of my mining operations. This is one of the hardest changes I will be making, as I firmly believe there are plenty of opportunities in this space that I am going to be missing out on, but I believe I can do more good for the bitcoin community as a whole working to provide that equipment to people as opposed to using it myself.
March 24, 2013, 02:49:46 PM
Known or not....this is a big FU to every customer in my book.
Things went to hell with BFL's ASICs between June 2012 and March/April 2013. Delay after delay and wafers thrown out the window.
Just to put a cherry on top, the guy in charge of handling the schedule for ASICs at his company puts himself ahead of any of his own customers. Rather than being honorable and saying..."You know what? I have an order with BFL, and I will ship my own when every customer to date has his/hers. Sorry for the delays."
Instead he takes a good portion of the wafer, declines to state exactly how much of the wafer he took for himself, and ultimately begins hashing with them (apparently) before anyone else will. Thereby driving the profits into his own pockets and less into that of his customers.
The funny part of this is, (and I haven't read it yet), it sounds like he took in money in the form of shares in June 2012 for a device that didn't yet exist. Am I wrong about this?
Things went to hell with BFL's ASICs between June 2012 and March/April 2013. Delay after delay and wafers thrown out the window.
Just to put a cherry on top, the guy in charge of handling the schedule for ASICs at his company puts himself ahead of any of his own customers. Rather than being honorable and saying..."You know what? I have an order with BFL,
Instead he takes a good portion of the wafer, declines to state exactly how much of the wafer he took for himself, and ultimately begins hashing with them (apparently) before anyone else will. Thereby driving the profits into his own pockets and less into that of his customers.
The funny part of this is, (and I haven't read it yet), it sounds like he took in money in the form of shares in June 2012 for a device that didn't yet exist. Am I wrong about this?
What are the chances that he's mining with an Avalon?
March 24, 2013, 01:54:24 PM
Known or not....this is a big FU to every customer in my book.
Things went to hell with BFL's ASICs between June 2012 and March/April 2013. Delay after delay and wafers thrown out the window.
Just to put a cherry on top, the guy in charge of handling the schedule for ASICs at his company puts himself ahead of any of his own customers. Rather than being honorable and saying..."You know what? I have an order with BFL, and I will ship my own when every customer to date has his/hers. Sorry for the delays."
Instead he takes a good portion of the wafer, declines to state exactly how much of the wafer he took for himself, and ultimately begins hashing with them (apparently) before anyone else will. Thereby driving the profits into his own pockets and less into that of his customers.
The funny part of this is, (and I haven't read it yet), it sounds like he took in money in the form of shares in June 2012 for a device that didn't yet exist. Am I wrong about this?
Things went to hell with BFL's ASICs between June 2012 and March/April 2013. Delay after delay and wafers thrown out the window.
Just to put a cherry on top, the guy in charge of handling the schedule for ASICs at his company puts himself ahead of any of his own customers. Rather than being honorable and saying..."You know what? I have an order with BFL,
Instead he takes a good portion of the wafer, declines to state exactly how much of the wafer he took for himself, and ultimately begins hashing with them (apparently) before anyone else will. Thereby driving the profits into his own pockets and less into that of his customers.
The funny part of this is, (and I haven't read it yet), it sounds like he took in money in the form of shares in June 2012 for a device that didn't yet exist. Am I wrong about this?
March 24, 2013, 01:33:44 PM
If about 200 ASIC chips per mini rig...then about 400 (IF) he only takes two for himself.
Or about half a wafer of chips from the first batch. Or roughly about 10%.
-------------------
Supposedly, he has a conscience. So I assume this means he'd only be taking 2 minirigs worth.
Again I will point out, he stated no BFL employee nor BFL would be using the machines on the network. This flies in direct contradiction of his statements not to mine on the network.
People noticed days ago that there was a huge jump in the hashing rate of his Eclipse mining pool. Consistent with TH/s being added...supposedly. Then followed by someone effectively DDoS'ing his Pool and the BFL website.
How big was the bump in TH/s?? From that you can probably infer how many chips he took for himself.
I can also infer/suspect someone did not like the pool or BFL shotrly after the bump in TH/s...and the mystery DDos seems alot less mysterious....
Or about half a wafer of chips from the first batch. Or roughly about 10%.
-------------------
Supposedly, he has a conscience. So I assume this means he'd only be taking 2 minirigs worth.
Again I will point out, he stated no BFL employee nor BFL would be using the machines on the network. This flies in direct contradiction of his statements not to mine on the network.
People noticed days ago that there was a huge jump in the hashing rate of his Eclipse mining pool. Consistent with TH/s being added...supposedly. Then followed by someone effectively DDoS'ing his Pool and the BFL website.
How big was the bump in TH/s?? From that you can probably infer how many chips he took for himself.
I can also infer/suspect someone did not like the pool or BFL shotrly after the bump in TH/s...and the mystery DDos seems alot less mysterious....
March 24, 2013, 01:18:59 PM
I am opening a new offering, basically mirroring the BFLS product. It is for the MiniRigs & SC ASIC offering.
IPO will begin tomorrow:
6058 shares will be allocated and sold per Minirig, initially 2 rigs worth of shares will be allocated, and 6058 shares can be traded in for the physical Minirig hardware. 15% of the shares will be kept for maintenance and operation costs.
Once the details of the ASIC unit orders are publicly available, available shares will double and be put up for sale. At that point, it will require 6058 x 2 = 12116 shares to convert your BFLS.RIG shares into the physical hardware (Mini-Rig or SC).
Dividends on RIG will be paid out the same way BFLS is currently paid, on a weekly basis and the amount will be what the unit(s) generate that week. Obviously, no dividends on RIG will be paid until the hardware is in actual operation.
RIG shares purchased are for a share of the unit, not to help fund the purchase of a unit, since the units have already been paid for. Funds will be reinvested into further ASIC orders, which means the ASIC units will be "pre-purchased" already, and you will be buying into already purchased ASIC units with your BFLS.RIG shares, not funding the purchase of ASIC units. This is an important distinction, since it means you'll start generating revenue much faster than a unit you would be "funding" the purchase of.
Ticker symbol is BFLS.RIG
On one hand you're right (I'll edit the OP), in June he mentions that 2 minirigs will be put aside. Then he mentions that the number of shares will somehow double, but now he's being ambiguous about the number of chips being kept ["The number that will be in the "first batch" is kind of up in the air at the moment"], which leads me believe he's going to keep whatever he feels he can get away with to size down his FPGA mining operation.
March 24, 2013, 12:52:55 PM
These aren't the ASIC units you are looking for
These aren't the ASIC units we're looking for
Josh can go about this business
"He can go about his business"
These aren't the ASIC units we're looking for
Josh can go about this business
"He can go about his business"
March 24, 2013, 12:10:00 PM
March 24, 2013, 11:57:59 AM
Seems legit. 
BFL never ceases to amaze.
BFL never ceases to amaze.
March 24, 2013, 08:49:15 AM
"First Batch" Shipping Plan (AKA 1/3 Shipping plan)
https://forums.butterflylabs.com/pre-sales-questions/51-first-batch-shipping-plan-aka-1-3-shipping-plan.html
https://forums.butterflylabs.com/pre-sales-questions/51-first-batch-shipping-plan-aka-1-3-shipping-plan.html
March 24, 2013, 08:17:35 AM
Nasty...
C'mon Josh, hook us up!
C'mon Josh, hook us up!
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