BFL Minirig seems like a spectacular bargain?

NEO2012

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Quote from: misterbigg on February 17, 2013, 10:22:04 PM

Assuming:

1) The BFL Minirig ships
2) Network hash rate stays under 500Th/s
3) Bitcoin price remains stable
4) Actual performance of the minirig is close to expeted performance

Then, it seems to me that having a Minirig is basically having a license to print Bitcoins. It would pay for itself after a few short months, and by the time a year has passed you have thousands of extra coins. Maybe even 10,000BTC?

Is this right, or is my math off?

seems like it

They say in the California gold rush, most miners never made enough to recoup their investment.
The only people assured of profits were the ones selling tools to the miners.

creativex

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Quote from: enocog on March 07, 2013, 03:14:19 PM

So I haven't seen anyone discus this angle, sorry if someone has. BFL has been accepting BTC for pre-orders so if you pre ordered a single in the summer months of 2012 it would be around 260 BTC as the value was around 5 to 14 USD last summer. That means that you just lost around $9,090 USD if you gave them your BTC when it was worth 5 USD and Today it's worth around 40 USD. Right, am I missing something here?

The only thing you're missing is the dozens of times it's been discussed previously. Wink

Yes, unfortunately some people did pay BFL with BTC in June of 2012 and yes they've been royally screwed by doing so. In all fairness paying BTCFPGA in BTC for an ASIC last October has not worked out really well for me either.

NEO2012

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Quote from: enocog on March 07, 2013, 03:14:19 PM

So I haven't seen anyone discus this angle, sorry if someone has. BFL has been accepting BTC for pre-orders so if you pre ordered a single in the summer months of 2012 it would be around 260 BTC as the value was around 5 to 14 USD last summer. That means that you just lost around $9,090 USD if you gave them your BTC when it was worth 5 USD and Today it's worth around 40 USD. Right, am I missing something here?

yeah btc is like 45 now

and hit 50 the other day:)

yeah u urdered half a sc with a half a minirig price

u the dude who urderes a a 30k unit today might get it before u

u dont think they gonna hold back a 30k costumer couse of a single bord?

like urs for example?

duble jammy wammy oh yeah

bfl rules

enocog

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So I haven't seen anyone discus this angle, sorry if someone has. BFL has been accepting BTC for pre-orders so if you pre ordered a single in the summer months of 2012 it would be around 260 BTC as the value was around 5 to 14 USD last summer. That means that you just lost around $9,090 USD if you gave them your BTC when it was worth 5 USD and Today it's worth around 40 USD. Right, am I missing something here?

NEO2012

full member

Activity: 162

Merit: 100

Quote from: misterbigg on February 17, 2013, 10:22:04 PM

Assuming:

1) The BFL Minirig ships
2) Network hash rate stays under 500Th/s
3) Bitcoin price remains stable
4) Actual performance of the minirig is close to expeted performance

Then, it seems to me that having a Minirig is basically having a license to print Bitcoins. It would pay for itself after a few short months, and by the time a year has passed you have thousands of extra coins. Maybe even 10,000BTC?

Is this right, or is my math off?

YEAH SEAMS LIKE

WHEN U CONSIDER THAT 1000TH IS PRSOLD ALREADY

WITCH WILL PUT U IN THE 2 BTC A DAY BRAKET

UNTILL SLOWLYYY NETWORK ACHES UP

opentoe

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Personal text my ass....

Quote from: Puppet on March 06, 2013, 05:45:06 AM

Quote from: creativex on March 06, 2013, 05:39:29 AM

BFL is staffed by incompetent bozos and convicted felons, that much is true, but ASICMiner and Avalon have indeed created ASIC mining hardware. The evidence is all over the forums and all over the pools.

It doesnt even make sense to suspect BFL is running a scam. If they were, they would have closed shop by now and ran off with the money. The bulk of their sales already happened a long time ago, so if it were a scam, they pulled it off already. Why keep paying for offices and personnel and storage rooms full of custom cases etc ?

Here's the rub. Who says they are even paying for offices, storage or personnel? I can setup a few phone numbers, get a website with exclusive pictures and make it look exactly like a working company with many employees. They are still accepting and taking pre-orders, why would they want their source of income to just stop? The people receiving that pre-order money could be on an island somewhere not even close to the US.

creativex

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Activity: 434

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Quote from: Puppet on March 06, 2013, 05:45:06 AM

Quote from: creativex on March 06, 2013, 05:39:29 AM

BFL is staffed by incompetent bozos and convicted felons, that much is true, but ASICMiner and Avalon have indeed created ASIC mining hardware. The evidence is all over the forums and all over the pools.

It doesnt even make sense to suspect BFL is running a scam. If they were, they would have closed shop by now and ran off with the money. The bulk of their sales already happened a long time ago, so if it were a scam, they pulled it off already. Why keep paying for offices and personnel and storage rooms full of custom cases etc ?

I didn't say they were running a scam, I said they're incompetent. I believe they've intentionally lied about their timetables and they never anticipated shipping ASIC products in October of 2012. They've since lied about shipping dates and fabricated excuses for the delays to keep the pre-order funds rolling in, but no, I do not believe they intend to abscond with the funds. I believe they're trying to deliver an ASIC product and may do as much...eventually, if they're not shut down by the FTC, AG's office, or bankrupted first.

Puppet

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Quote from: creativex on March 06, 2013, 05:39:29 AM

BFL is staffed by incompetent bozos and convicted felons, that much is true, but ASICMiner and Avalon have indeed created ASIC mining hardware. The evidence is all over the forums and all over the pools.

It doesnt even make sense to suspect BFL is running a scam. If they were, they would have closed shop by now and ran off with the money. The bulk of their sales already happened a long time ago, so if it were a scam, they pulled it off already. Why keep paying for offices and personnel and storage rooms full of custom cases etc ?

creativex

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Activity: 434

Merit: 250

Quote from: MangoJ on March 06, 2013, 04:10:47 AM

BFL CEO plead guilty to mail fraud in 2007
http://coinbits.com/2012/09/19/ceo-of-butterfly-labs-is-a-felon-plead-guilty-to-mail-fraud-in-2007-spent-14-months-in-prison/
First reported here:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.1202299

Confirmed by BFL employee here:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.1202784

Read the original: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/105ii4/ceo_of_butterfly_labs_is_a_felon_plead_guilty_to/

How many months of "pre-order" money has BFL taken all while telling people excuses for delays?
4,5,6 months?

Renting a few bot-nets for 1 or 2 single users in a pool to crank up 3000G/h does not impress me. That is one user. Is it BFL or Avalon using their own equipment? Because if ASIC was delivered to anyone.. why don't we see more than 2 people with over 100G/h?

I submit to you, that the mega giga hash users.. all 2 of them.. are bot nets.
If ASIC is real.. where can I find a pool that has more than 2 people above 100 G/h?
Each ASIC can do 80. A bunch of people would buy one. Several would buy more than one.

Show me more than 2 and I will believe it.
But it isnt from BFL. Grin

Avalon?
Youtube cell phone videos? LOL
I am mad at the criminals and at the victims.

BFL is staffed by incompetent bozos and convicted felons, that much is true, but ASICMiner and Avalon have indeed created ASIC mining hardware. The evidence is all over the forums and all over the pools.

http://www.btcguild.com/index.php?page=rankings
http://ozco.in/content/hall-fame-round-shares-bitcoin
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkPdXsQFT-vIdHRVUjQ5Ql9BQWR6OENLMkhyUktUblE#gid=7

Beepbop

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A post count of 12 from a brand new Bitcointalk account, making low quality posts. Except, as I said above, post count or donator status is not a sufficient indicator of trust. Somehow I think the Bitcoin Foundation holds more credibility than any anonymous Bitcointalk user, regardless of post count.

Quote from: MangoJ on March 06, 2013, 04:14:39 AM

When someone tells you something you dont want to hear, do you always make jokes back at them?

Actually I do want to hear it, because I love listening to conspiracy theorists who live in an alternate reality. In the case of BFL I would also have been amused if they turned out to be a complete scam, but so far it seems they are indeed trying to make ASIC products.

Quote from: MangoJ on March 06, 2013, 04:14:39 AM

What kind of a proof video is done so poorly?

That means you don't trust the Bitcoin Foundation. And since you don't trust the blockchain either, there's literally nothing that will coinvince you that ASICs exist. Maybe except if you get given one for free? Wink

Avalon were right when they said that it would be pointless for them to waste time making video proof, since somebody wouldn't believe the proof anyway, so they would let the blockchain and their customers do the talking. Apparently even that wouldn't convince some people.

MangoJ

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Quote from: Beepbop on March 05, 2013, 03:58:04 AM

Quote from: MangoJ on March 05, 2013, 03:15:25 AM

I am not suggesting, I am making a clear statement that I do not believe anyone that ordered an ASIC miner (from BFL or Avalon) will ever receive it. "Jeff" and the "foundation" appear to be low quality fake "evidence".

MangoJ will deny the existence of ASIC miners until the cows come home, and then he'll deny the existence of both the cows and the ASICs.

The post count on YouTube is not a source of trust any more than donator status on Bitcointalk is.

When someone tells you something you dont want to hear, do you always make jokes back at them?

A post count of 1, from a brand new youtube account, showing a video taken from a low end cellphone, that fails to show the ASIC up close.. reeks of fraud to anyone that is warry.

What kind of a proof video is done so poorly?

MangoJ

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BFL CEO plead guilty to mail fraud in 2007
http://coinbits.com/2012/09/19/ceo-of-butterfly-labs-is-a-felon-plead-guilty-to-mail-fraud-in-2007-spent-14-months-in-prison/
First reported here:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.1202299

Confirmed by BFL employee here:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.1202784

Read the original: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/105ii4/ceo_of_butterfly_labs_is_a_felon_plead_guilty_to/

How many months of "pre-order" money has BFL taken all while telling people excuses for delays?
4,5,6 months?

Renting a few bot-nets for 1 or 2 single users in a pool to crank up 3000G/h does not impress me. That is one user. Is it BFL or Avalon using their own equipment? Because if ASIC was delivered to anyone.. why don't we see more than 2 people with over 100G/h?

I submit to you, that the mega giga hash users.. all 2 of them.. are bot nets.
If ASIC is real.. where can I find a pool that has more than 2 people above 100 G/h?
Each ASIC can do 80. A bunch of people would buy one. Several would buy more than one.

Show me more than 2 and I will believe it.
But it isnt from BFL. Grin

Avalon?
Youtube cell phone videos? LOL
I am mad at the criminals and at the victims.

opentoe

legendary

Activity: 1274

Merit: 1000

Personal text my ass....

Quote from: MangoJ on March 05, 2013, 03:15:25 AM

Quote from: Fuzzy on March 04, 2013, 01:05:06 PM

Quote from: MangoJ on March 04, 2013, 01:33:07 AM

Quote from: bonker on February 28, 2013, 05:30:50 AM

But you are correct. ASICs are effortless, free money for the masses.. Praise Be!

That would be something. Amazing even, if ASIC miners were even real. Cheesy

Are you suggesting, that the ASIC's are a lie?

I am not suggesting, I am making a clear statement that I do not believe anyone that ordered an ASIC miner (from BFL or Avalon) will ever receive it. "Jeff" and the "foundation" appear to be low quality fake "evidence". I see zero "normal" people with youtube accounts that were not created in 1 day with 1 low quality video (IE the "foundation").

Where are the people that have been on youtube for over a month, showing these off?
Please tell me if I am wrong, I would love to see that BFL didn't commit mail fraud.. (again. He is on probation for mail fraud in the past.)

Can you elaborate this mail fraud? I don't know what you mean, seriously, I don't know.

creativex

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Activity: 434

Merit: 250

Quote from: MangoJ on March 05, 2013, 03:15:25 AM

Quote from: Fuzzy on March 04, 2013, 01:05:06 PM

Quote from: MangoJ on March 04, 2013, 01:33:07 AM

Quote from: bonker on February 28, 2013, 05:30:50 AM

But you are correct. ASICs are effortless, free money for the masses.. Praise Be!

That would be something. Amazing even, if ASIC miners were even real. Cheesy

Are you suggesting, that the ASIC's are a lie?

I am not suggesting, I am making a clear statement that I do not believe anyone that ordered an ASIC miner (from BFL or Avalon) will ever receive it. "Jeff" and the "foundation" appear to be low quality fake "evidence". I see zero "normal" people with youtube accounts that were not created in 1 day with 1 low quality video (IE the "foundation").

Where are the people that have been on youtube for over a month, showing these off?
Please tell me if I am wrong, I would love to see that BFL didn't commit mail fraud.. (again. He is on probation for mail fraud in the past.)

LOL

Newbs showing up calling bitcoin founders liars. Now there's a credibility gap. There is evidence of ASIC mining gear hitting the network all around you. Just open your eyes and you will see it. Search for the words Avalon and ASICMiner as both have ASIC gear hashing at this time.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=99497.2160
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/avalon-asic-update-march-1st-147936
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/avalon-asic-users-thread-140539

crazyates

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Quote from: MangoJ on March 05, 2013, 03:15:25 AM

I am not suggesting, I am making a clear statement that I do not believe anyone that ordered an ASIC miner (from BFL or Avalon) will ever receive it. "Jeff" and the "foundation" appear to be low quality fake "evidence". I see zero "normal" people with youtube accounts that were not created in 1 day with 1 low quality video (IE the "foundation").

Where are the people that have been on youtube for over a month, showing these off?
Please tell me if I am wrong, I would love to see that BFL didn't commit mail fraud.. (again. He is on probation for mail fraud in the past.)

Umm have you seen the network recently? ASICMiner has come online, with several TH/s of hashpower. Several other pools have shown drastic increase in hashpower, as users point their ASICs toward them (Esp Ozcoin as of recently).

As far as BFL is concerned, who said anything about mail fraud? That doesn't even make sense. Kano (a very prominent member here on the forums, and one of the programmers for CGMiner) recently visited the BFL campus, and basically said he left there with zero concerns about them being a scam.

You have 10 posts, clearly don't know what you're talking about, and you look like an ostrich with your head in the sand.

Beepbop

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Quote from: MangoJ on March 05, 2013, 03:15:25 AM

I am not suggesting, I am making a clear statement that I do not believe anyone that ordered an ASIC miner (from BFL or Avalon) will ever receive it. "Jeff" and the "foundation" appear to be low quality fake "evidence".

MangoJ will deny the existence of ASIC miners until the cows come home, and then he'll deny the existence of both the cows and the ASICs.

The post count on YouTube is not a source of trust any more than donator status on Bitcointalk is.

MangoJ

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Quote from: Fuzzy on March 04, 2013, 01:05:06 PM

Quote from: MangoJ on March 04, 2013, 01:33:07 AM

Quote from: bonker on February 28, 2013, 05:30:50 AM

But you are correct. ASICs are effortless, free money for the masses.. Praise Be!

That would be something. Amazing even, if ASIC miners were even real. Cheesy

Are you suggesting, that the ASIC's are a lie?

I am not suggesting, I am making a clear statement that I do not believe anyone that ordered an ASIC miner (from BFL or Avalon) will ever receive it. "Jeff" and the "foundation" appear to be low quality fake "evidence". I see zero "normal" people with youtube accounts that were not created in 1 day with 1 low quality video (IE the "foundation").

Where are the people that have been on youtube for over a month, showing these off?
Please tell me if I am wrong, I would love to see that BFL didn't commit mail fraud.. (again. He is on probation for mail fraud in the past.)

crazyates

legendary

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