Topic: BFL rewarding Jalapeno orders at the expense of LS/S/MR orders - page 3. (Read 4355 times)

You said that Jalpeno buyers were "being rewarded at the expense of others" by the mere fact that their orders are being shipped. I was saying I don't get WHAT you're suggesting by that claim. I can only assume that you mean that either they shouldn't be shipping Jalpeno orders, or they should magically change the circumstances, and WILL the other hardware into completion. Which is it? The latter isn't an option, so I presumed the former. Mistake on my part?

Assembly is a completely different beast than development and testing. I'm sure they don't have their design team on the assembly line, so it's silly to assume that the shipment of jalpeno orders is in any way taking away from the development of the other hardware. The problem is that they're still developing the other stuff. Not that they're sitting on them in order to prioritize Jalpenos.

If wal-mart has one hundred 27" inch TVs, but they're out of stock on the 40", 55" and 70" TVs, does that mean they should halt sales of the 27" TVs, so that the 27" customers aren't being "Rewarded at the expense of the 40", 55" and 70", customers"?


I can see your point here.

I don't know that it would actually result in you getting your hashing power any faster, considering that it would just extend the queue significantly. It's a lot more work to assemble 500 Jalpenos than 50 Singles. So depending on how close they are to completing the development of the other hardware, customers might be shooting themselves in the foot if they demand that BFL ship piles and piles of Jalpenos, in place of higher-density hardware. Neither of us knows how close they are go finishing dev on other products though, so it's impossible to figure out what would be ideal.

Like I said, I'm pretty confident most of you guys will get your high-density hardware WELL before I ever get my cute little Jalpeno desk toy, so I really don't have much of a dog in this fight. I've put most of my money on different horses. The Jalpeno is really just a novelty to me. I don't expect it to make me rich.

Objection. Lacks foundation, calls for speculation.

Boy you're really living up to your reputation aren't you?

You clearly cannot read with comprehension or you have chosen to respond without reading.  Where did I even state that I thought punitive measures against Jalapeno buyers was a good idea?  Please quote it and bold it.

What BFL is doing is giving an unfair advantage to Jalapeno owners.  Since they have not decided to go with 1/3rd plan, and they have not decided to hold back Jalapeno orders they should implement a different plan that would be fair to the other purchasers.

Jalapeno orders may be numerically larger but by purchase values I would clearly say LS/S/MR people funded BFL for the most part.  Are you going to argue that somebody buying quantity 10k of a 3 cent item at a Walmart store should weigh more heavily that the 8000 other item purchases that might be made on a typical day (hypothetical).

What they may consider if they are not willing to actively put LS/S/MR production as a top priority is converting the other orders to Bitforce 5s

damn dude.. you really are "out there".  You can't just "say something" and it be fact.  No, if you have a jalapeno order, it would be in YOUR best interest for them to finish their line of jalapeno order shipments. 

Facts:
This means you would get your jalapeno (even being an April order), before ANY single, little single, or minirig orders are fulfilled.  This means that you would be mining on devices before 100's of terahash are in the wild due to BFL shipping out their other products.


No, that actually isn't obvious.  Just the opposite on several statements. 

From the beginning they planned on releasing ALL products at the same time.  In fact, if they even ONCE said that they would be shipping out Jalapeno's first, someone like me would have kept my order of 5 jalapenos instead of upgrading my order to 1 little single (when the little single announcement was made).  In fact I didn't want 6 Jalapenos because back then we thought it would require USB power which meant running 6 jalapenos on one USB hub would be a pain.  Now that I know that the Jalapenos not only have their own power brick, but are shipping NOW.. I'd say I would have made different decisions back then. 

Furthermore, provide some sort of proof that 90% of their pre orders are Jalapenos.  Especially after allowing Jalapeno orders to be upgraded to the $699 little singles, 90% is not a correct number.  Also, just because Jalapenos are easier to make, they aren't THAT much easier.  Also, why are you listing only those two "facts" as your arguing points.  You are ignoring the fact that the Jalapenos are the ONLY ONES EVEN READY TO MAKE.  In the past month they have not HAD the boards for the LS, Singles, and minirigs.  You can't assemble and ship something that don't have parts ready.  This isn't rocket science.

trust me.. if I had the money to buy into anything else at this point I would.  ASICs are super pricey and I've already woken up to that fact.  I can't afford asic miner equipment but they certainly demand the price.  Unfortunately I've put all my eggs in one basket.  IF I receive my product I'm 100% sure I'll make some money off of it (seeing that I have nothing truly invested.. making 10$ would be considered profit to me).   I assume that IF I receive my devices, the difficulty has to hit the 600 million range to be not worth it to me.  That is making ~100-125$ @ 40GH/s and 120$ bitcoins.  Let's not forget that by the time the difficulty is up to 600 million, we may see a significant rise in bitcoin prices.  If I get my device at the 50 million difficulty mark, I will still be making ~850$ a month.  If I save 4 bitcoins a month and after 6 months the difficulty is at 500 million, but bitcoins are 300$ a bitcoin, I will have saved 7200$ in bitcoins and will be making ~$366 a month.  That is only ~1.15 bitcoins a month @ 40GH/s @ 500 million difficulty @ $300 bitcoins.  For me, nothing to scoff at and of course it is purely speculation.  Take it for what it is worth, but we have a lot of variables that determine the profitability of different mining devices.  Hopefully the stars align for most of us (adopters of BFL, asicminer, Avalon, bitcoin horders, etc..)


The only thing that could happen is BFL just picks up and disappears with all of our money.  Time will tell but I'm still leaning on them staying in the business.  If not.. oh well.  Maybe I'll score it big on something else.  If I was a huge investor, or sunk ANY money into this I was not already writing off as lost, I would have a totally different outlook.  Might as well have spent my bitcoins at the bicoin casino if that was the case.   

they love you man...  but for YOUR sake please spread out your bets though

there is a real reason that ASICminer gets the price they ask..  wake up to that fact

This is a pretty ignorant comment..  The jump really has nothing to do with the current ~30 jalapenos in the wild.  You also think a 21-30 million difficulty will make that many people question the refund?  

I am currently mining on a couple of video cards in my house that equal about 1.3GH/s.  I can still make 125$ a month and that is including the 25$ or so that I use in energy.  

I'm more of a practical thinker when it comes to ROI.  If the difficulty triples buy the time I get my devices (about 40GH/s of equipment) I will still be getting ~830$ a month @ 95 million difficulty.  That is pretty much paying for all of my initial investment. (probably 5 week ROI).  In the investment world, an ROI of 5 weeks is ridiculous.  Even if it takes 3-4 months to hit my ROI, I would be pleased with that.  My video cards organically funded my initial investment though so technically anything I make is already gravy.

..don't get me wrong.. I would LOVE to receive my stuff asap so I can get in on this "under 50 million" difficulty.  I personally think Butterfly labs WILL ship my stuff. It's not the how, who, and what.. it's the WHEN that determines if I make a couple of grand.. or make 10-20 grand.  No matter how much Butterfly labs messes up and shows its mismanagement, I still think they have every intention of fulfilling their orders and staying in the business for the long haul.  That's about all I can say right now though.

exactly my thought, i dont care how - just get me it!

No, it would be in my best interest to have ALL orders held until they can all be delivered at the same time, like some people apparently want. I don't expect that I'll see my Jalpeno until WELL after the other hardware is completed and rolled out. But it seems pretty obvious that when 90% of the pre-orders are Jalpenos, and Jalpenos were the simplest hardware to design and complete, that you'd be seeing lots of Jalpenos rolling out before all the big guns. This isn't rocket science.

Jalpeno buyers aren't "being rewarded at the expense of LS/S/MR orders" as the OP asserts.

This is a non-thread. The Jalepneo is the only thing they've designed that works currently...

Just an observation, my jalapeño will be profitable until difficulty > 2 billion, profit window will be open for a while yet.

you really think those jally's had any impact compared to the tidal wave from ASICminer the last month?

Difficulty jumped from 12 million to 15 million just today. The largest jump yet. And this is only with a tiny fraction of Jalepeno's going online... The next difficulty jump is estimated at 21 to 30 million.

Now pre-order customer are going to run their numbers and a lot of decisions are going to be made very soon...

God help BFL. The refund window is about to get mobbed.

I (Single Pre-Order from June 2012) complain everytime BFL pulls another stunt (sell ASICs before Miners are shiped, charity donation into their own pockets). But on the other hand I lost nearly all of my ~ 200 BTC investment and BFL care a shit about complaints.

From the twitter
"Unofficial BFL News ‏@BFL_News 17h
BFL Forum "Latest News" - Jalapenos shipping en mass now.  LS/S/MR boards done, shipping soon."

http://ow.ly/i/2hdwg  arriving on your doorstep soon?

Probably because they understand that 5Gh/s are about to crap out in terms of profit.

Yielding too little means that a very high refund rate is very likely. So it gets the priority, I would speculate.

the mentality that BFL customers are made to cultivate is past amway levels...

must be shills from that company posting this crap to the feeble minds that remain


I guess in the schister handbook, it is well known that a certain group of people will always be grabbed in these nets

I TOTALLY get it now.  You have late April Jalapeno orders.  So obviously you would rather see all the jalapenos get fulfilled before the other devices.  Yeah, your opinion is not biased at ALL. 

Good ol wrechmonkey... Did you even read his post? No he's not suggesting that so your cute story doesn't apply.

This is really a bad analogy.  I hate it when people aren't good at analogies but think they are.

This isn't like someone getting their order for some retail product, and another person getting a different retail product (lets say two different next gen Apple Ipads), and one of them breaks for 1 customer therefore they purposefully send out an update that damages the other customer's product.  That would be a fitting real world application of your example and no, that would make absolutely no sense.

Besides being a person who consistently defends BFL no matter WHAT they do, you also fail to see the whole picture of things and let your trolling cloud your better judgment.  (yeah yeah.. we know.. your excuse is that you like to troll trolls, but you don't troll ALL trolls, you just troll the people who troll BFL threads.  Your excuse is ridiculous at this point until we see you troll the people who also troll BFL haters.) 

The big picture here is that the longer it takes to receive, there are two factors at work.  The longer it takes for one customer to make a better profit or ROI AND as more people receive asic devices, the more the difficulty goes up which means they make even less the longer it takes.

Ex.  Say for instance, they start up some serious production of Jalapenos.  Let's say within 1 month they are able to assemble and ship out 2000 jalapenos from orders.  Let's also say for this theoretical example, that it takes them 2 more months to start sending out Little Singles, Singles, and Mini-rigs.  That means there are 4000 jalapeno's out in the wild by the time these other devices are even shipped.  Let's also say that some of these jalapeno orders were made in January 2013 because they(BFL) are knocking out their queue.  That means people who ordered 6 months earlier, for devices that are worth 10 times the price, and 10 times the performance, are watching $2,413,904 a MONTH (current difficulty) being made by these 4000 jalapenos (even averaged 5GH/s to be a conservative hash rate) and they still have not received their device. 

Lets get even more granular.  I have August orders, but I have a buddy with a July order of 1 single @ 60GH/s.  Let's also say someone else has a July order for 4 jalapeno's.  Let's say he receives them next week, and my buddy's Single order doesn't get to him until August.  That means this jalapeno customer will make about 2500$ by the time a Single shows up on the other customer's doorstep.  I would personally feel slighted if I spent more money ~$1300 for a Single vs ~$700 for 4 jalapenos, and made less money.  These are people that spent MORE MONEY to fund a company's project.  These are people who made MORE of a risk.  By the time the Single order comes, the difficulty could easily double.  And the reason it doubled?  Because 20 TERAHASH has been added to the network due to all of these jalapenos, not including Asic Miner, Avalon chips, and maybe even BFL chips coming to the market. 

So seriously?  You cannot see that?  Anyone who says people shouldn't be disappointed by this arrangement is just trolling for trolling sakes.  Both camps have legitimate complaints and people who cannot come to grips with that are living in fantasy land.

If you want to be a "BitcoinTalk Forum Troll Avenger" you have to put in the work and not be selective.